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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Jim Roselle on November 30, 2015, 05:19:02 PM
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I hate to beat a dead horse but here we go...
I save all my Model Aviation mags to leave in my dermatologist waiting room every six months, maybe it will spark someone's interest.
This months quad copter fest is going straight in the trash. I'm not a multi rotor hater but come on...
It's supposed to be about model airplanes.
Jim
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I hate to beat a dead horse but here we go...
I save all my Model Aviation mags to leave in my dermatologist waiting room every six months, maybe it will spark someone's interest.
This months quad copter fest is going straight in the trash. I'm not a multi rotor hater but come on...
It's supposed to be about model airplanes.
Jim
Jim, actually I am glad you posted about this. I started to but didn't because of "the dead horse" syndrome you just referred to. I just thumbed through it, laughed, and threw it directly in the trash. It has gotten beyond ridiculous.
Mike
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Ahh, yes....the Quadcopter Monthly. Rec'd it today, and nearly asked for a refund of dues.
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Ahh, yes....the Quadcopter Monthly. Rec'd it today, and nearly asked for a refund of dues.
Won't be any refund necessary here, there not going to get it from me in the first place anymore. They made the choice. :(
That reminds me, I need to get my Stunt News dues sent in. y1
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Jim, actually I am glad you posted about this. I started to but didn't because of "the dead horse" syndrome you just referred to. I just thumbed through it, laughed, and threw it directly in the trash. It has gotten beyond ridiculous.
Mike
There have been quads in the magazine for years now. It's to be expected as they are part of the hobby; but this months issue is a quad copter magazine with a sprinkling of model airplanes.
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There have been quads in the magazine for years now. It's to be expected as they are part of the hobby; but this months issue is a quad copter magazine with a sprinkling of model airplanes.
It's that money hungry evolution of the AMA that was the final straw for me. The ARF generation and such have been hard enough to take over the years but at least they're still airplanes.
I didn't want to make the decision to quit the organization, the AMA did it for me. D>K
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The loss of a handful of CL (and/or) FF modelers won't affect the Academy of Multirotors & ARFs at all. In fact, they'll probably be glad we're gone. Now they'll be free to push their ever-expanding coverage of Quadcopters and other crap which has nothing whatsover to do with real model airplanes.
The only reason I re-upped with them is to watch the coming implosion.
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In his column the Prez notes that AMA numbers have to be either in or on the plane, something that the leadership of the AMA says has been established for years! I TOOK THE MAGAZINE, PAGE BY PAGE and found less than 10 models presented that had their AMA # on the wing as required. The multiple ARF's that were pictured by manufactures/importers showed only 1 or 2 and that more than likely is because the pictures were taken in China. BTW don't the helicopters have to have their #'s showing? What a mess!
Joe
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Hey Mike, now if they could just come up with a foamie quad copter to push, the organization will be complete.
Mike
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As has been said, I wouldn't re-up if I didn't need the piece of plastic to compete at contests.
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Takes me back to when I no longer renewed Model Airplane News because it was all RC....
G
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The loss of a handful of CL (and/or) FF modelers won't affect the Academy of Multirotors & ARFs at all. In fact, they'll probably be glad we're gone.
Agreed, and it's just another reason the whole situation sucks. For me the AMA's promotion of the quadcopter revolution was just the last straw. It's probably just me being honest with myself by sticking to my beliefs about our hobby and retaining some personal pride and values more than anything, something that there's just not enough of anymore. It's a shame, but the AMA has become just another business whore.
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I do not compete anymore. Decembers issue was my last. I am sure they won't miss my dues.
Mike
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i use to leave MA at the doctors too. after a while they were all gone. I wonder what happened to them. Did the doc throw them out, did someone take them home? no closure on that one.
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As has been said, I wouldn't re-up if I didn't need the piece of plastic to compete at contests.
Yup, same here. If there was any other insurance option for contests, they'd never get another dime.
And to think that at one time, as a kid, I was so proud of my AMA membership. Showed my card to all who would look.
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I have switched from paper to digital version for 2016. Easier to hit the delete button than haul them to the recycle.
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Comon guys get over it. Quads are the Ringmaster of the 20teens, best you can do is quit fretting over it and accept that fact. The December issue is for Christmas and what did you expect, thousands of quads will be under Christmas trees and the AMA and it's advertisers are simply catering to where the money will be spent. If you were in business you would do the same thing or go broke.
If it wasn't for ARF's and quads Tower and many of the other companies we buy from wouldn't exist and AMA would have gone broke years ago. CL and model airplane building will die with us. Best we can do for our own well being is simply accept that fact and quit fretting over something we can't change.
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Bob:
What you say is true. However, AMA is a member-based organization, not a business. They have corrupted themselves by making the chasing of money their #1 priority rather than what they claim: supporting their members. They were never in danger of going out of business by being a member supporting business. They are in danger when they forget their reason for existence: their members. You can bet there's a bunch of RCers not happy with the present situation either; although, I suppose, a lot of them have drank the cool-aid....
Scott
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This could be something to think about as a group collectively...
"Park Pilot membership is for aircraft 2 pounds or less that fly below 60 mph and does not include voting rights or
competitive priviledges. Park Pilot membership insurance benefits are limited to $500,000 of liability coverage."
If we could somehow lobby to get control line included into this catagory for folks that dont fly competively. Or a new catgory for just control line so that we can keep the insurance for contests.
Just a thoght...
Tony O
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Bob:
What you say is true. However, AMA is a member-based organization, not a business. They have corrupted themselves by making the chasing of money their #1 priority rather than what they claim: supporting their members. They were never in danger of going out of business by being a member supporting business. They are in danger when they forget their reason for existence: their members. You can bet there's a bunch of RCers not happy with the present situation either; although, I suppose, a lot of them have drank the cool-aid....
Scott
AMA may not be a business but it's existence depends on memberships. I don't have numbers but would bet money the existing "model builders" (both RC and CL) could not support the AMA. It needs quad and ARF buyers to stay in business.
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What does the Canadians have for an organization? They can compete here on their card could we leave the AMA, join their group and continue to compete here?javascript:void(0) You southerners would have to stop saying y'all and replace it with eh.
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Sorry Bob, not trying to insult you, but I disagree. You have simply presented their rationality for what they are doing. And it is simply not true.
Of course the current numbers of "builders" could support an organization! It would obviously be a different organization, but it would be an organization true to its purpose. And it may be smaller. By the way, there are many small organizations that survive. Yes, it is a challenge, but staying true to your purpose is always a challenge. AMA walked away from "building" a long time ago. It also walked away from its educational role (Academy??) a long time ago. But it doesn't take a lot of wit to notice that "building" has had a resurgence (the whole "maker" movement). And education? There is everything from the focus on STEM to home-schooling! There is tremendous opportunity in the "builder/maker" field and in the educational field. One page in the back of the magazine is not a serious effort.
One needs to understand that for model airplanes the fun is in the flying, but the benefit is in the building. AMA ran with "fun". Sort of like the fat guy too lazy to do his exercise because it was "too hard." It is always easier to sit down and eat your banana-cream pie than it is to do your push-ups. "Easier" is not better! "Easier" is signing unto the whole ARF/Quadcopter/FPV thing and not realizing it is banana-cream pie. If AMA would have done their push-ups years ago and run with building and education we would all be in a very different place. The fact that they don't doesn't mean it can't be done. The fact that they don't seem to know how, doesn't mean it is un-knowable. It is still not too late! But they've got to stop digging their hole (or push away from the table)!
Scott
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I agree. They have to stop going after the multi rotor pilots.
The multi rotor pilots really have no reason to join AMA anyway, and I don't think AMA will benefit from what they are trying to do.
They will find out the hard way when they start paying out big in drone incidents.
That's my prediction.
R,
Chris
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There's a nice CL scale write up in the back by Fred Cronnenwett (sp?). The FF column was good. That's about all i cared about. Seems to be the way it is now
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What does the Canadians have for an organization? They can compete here on their card could we leave the AMA, join their group and continue to compete here?javascript:void(0) You southerners would have to stop saying y'all and replace it with eh.
Model Aeronautics Association of Canada, a multi disciplinary group where interest groups have their own subcommittees and the Association looks after National issues.
We have strong interest Chairs for Control line and CLPA, so enjoy monthly information.
I believe there is a reciprocal agreement with AMA. We accept your members insurance as you accept ours, not sure if that extends to memberships. .......but I am sure someone will correct me if I err in translation.
G
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My, but our AMA prez. is soooooooo silly; dressing like Santa with a drone in his stocking ! LL~
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What does the Canadians have for an organization? They can compete here on their card could we leave the AMA, join their group and continue to compete here?javascript:void(0) You southerners would have to stop saying y'all and replace it with eh.
I like this idea, eh. If you are a current AMA member you could join MAAC for $60 US ($80 Canadian) a year. If you are not an AMA member then I think you have to have a Canadian residence. Now a bunch y'all... I mean eh, let's go join MAAC.
Unfortunately it does not look like there is any great savings to be had going this route but it would be fun.
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Bob:
What you say is true. However, AMA is a member-based organization, not a business. They have corrupted themselves by making the chasing of money their #1 priority rather than what they claim: supporting their members. They were never in danger of going out of business by being a member supporting business. They are in danger when they forget their reason for existence: their members. You can bet there's a bunch of RCers not happy with the present situation either; although, I suppose, a lot of them have drank the cool-aid....
Scott
Well put Scott. The AMA stopped giving a crap about the members and modeling interests long ago, it's ALL about the dollars anymore. y1
I never thought about it until right now but I would almost bet that annually they make more off of advertising in their rag than they do from membership dues. Someone else must have noticed that too, hence their jacking the membership rates.
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I just wonder how many of the owners of the so called drones even know about the AMA? ???
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I don't really care what the AMA prints between its magazine covers. I only read it if there is a C/L article (seldom).
I pay my dues only because it is required. Our flying field requires AMA. Also any contest I enter requires it.
It's just that simple.
Floyd
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It seems that the only interest most CL folks have with the AMA is insurance. Why is everyone so hung up about insurance? Has no one ever done anything more risky than toy airplanes and lived to tell the tale? I raced motocross for 28 years and never had any insurance except my own. How can motocross tracks and drag strips and such possibly stay in business without the scary lawyer type folks suing them out of existence? Simply by signing a waiver to get in. Assumed risk. Scared? Stay home. Why couldn't this work for airplanes? Don't most folks have their own insurance? I never could quite understand this...
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It seems that the only interest most CL folks have with the AMA is insurance. Why is everyone so hung up about insurance? Has no one ever done anything more risky than toy airplanes and lived to tell the tale? I raced motocross for 28 years and never had any insurance except my own. How can motocross tracks and drag strips and such possibly stay in business without the scary lawyer type folks suing them out of existence? Simply by signing a waiver to get in. Assumed risk. Scared? Stay home. Why couldn't this work for airplanes? Don't most folks have their own insurance? I never could quite understand this...
It's required at most airfields to possess an AMA card. Also, it's required at all contests. It's not about being too risky to play with airplanes, but if you wanna compete it's a requirement.
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I live in second biggest town in Michigan. how many control line kits do you think they sold this year. how many last year. how long do you think the one kit the hobby shop has will set on the shelf. CL is a very small fish in a big pond. I my self will be gald that all the haters are gone. Just get out and say no more. We will not know your gone.
it was 0 and 1 and ?
Steve
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It's required at most airfields to possess an AMA card. Also, it's required at all contests. It's not about being too risky to play with airplanes, but if you wanna compete it's a requirement.
I know this. I have one. I just don't know why...
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I know this. I have one. I just don't know why...
You got me there. I actively and frequently compete. But on the positive side, they still have some neat services. I called a couple times and they found me plans that i could not otherwise locate. They're a good network to get contact info for people who you wouldn't get to meet.
There's a lot of things AMA does i may not agree with. But i try and use their network for info as often as possible.
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I was reading the Mag last night and at first I felt a bit of anger at the constant hammering of ads for quad copters and the continuous support shown in the articles and columns by the AMA leadership. Then suddenly, I suppose because I've had a long time association with another AMA, The American Motorcycle Association, I began to see some humor in the entire situation. I thought; What if the AMA (motorcycle AMA) suddenly began filling their publication and columns with 4 Wheel Drive Trucks!!! Hey it's just about the same thing! I couldn't keep a straight face after that and finally wound up laughing out loud and tossing the mag in the trash can. These people in the AMA (modeling association) are "clowns" only concerned with following "The Money"...They are not worthy of comment except laughter!!! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
I suppose I'll go on paying my dues so I can compete in Stunt, but when that stops so will my membership! At least I can still laugh about the Clowns!
I doubt that I will ever pick up the mag again! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Randy Cuberly
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I live in second biggest town in Michigan. how many control line kits do you think they sold this year. how many last year. how long do you think the one kit the hobby shop has will set on the shelf. CL is a very small fish in a big pond. I my self will be gald that all the haters are gone. Just get out and say no more. We will not know your gone.
it was 0 and 1 and ?
Steve
Mr Hines,
Except for 18 months in Vietnam and a subsequent year in Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii, I have been an AMA member and competed since 1951. I truly believe that gives me a small right to complain about what the current leadership in AMA has done to an organization in which I've invested dues for all those years, without being called a "hater" by a "newby twit" like you. Ever heard of the 1st Amendment? Complaining about what leadership does in any organization is a right and can actually foster change sometimes! Probably not in this case because the twits in the AMA are simply sitting on their hands and watching the money roll in. However I will continue to let them know that I know what they are doing and give them a big raspberry whenever possible. Doesn't make me a "hater" just a concerned citizen who has to keep feeding their "Fat Asxxs" in order to compete in CL Stunt. I don't have to like what they are doing however!
Randy Cuberly
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The funny thing about those wanting to join the MAAC is that most or all of the Canadian contests use AMA rules. This means that they have no say in the rules changes. Yes, some contests back in Montreal use FAI rules, but that's probably just the French influence. Y'all. LL~
The really sad thing is that AMA insurance is only secondary insurance, meaning they open their wallet only after your homeowners or renters insurance has been maxed out. The limit is a lot higher, however. D>K Steve
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Randy, newby. 1969 was the first time I flew CL. AMA 1975. I may be twit, but unlike you I'm not a angry old white man that likes to set around and bitch, and dream about the good old days.
Steve
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The funny thing about those wanting to join the MAAC is that most or all of the Canadian contests use AMA rules. This means that they have no say in the rules changes. Yes, some contests back in Montreal use FAI rules, but that's probably just the French influence. Y'all. LL~
The really sad thing is that AMA insurance is only secondary insurance, meaning they open their wallet only after your homeowners or renters insurance has been maxed out. The limit is a lot higher, however. D>K Steve
Hello Steve,
I thought a few years back the Canadians adopted their own set of rules. AMA scoring, 7 min time limit, no BOM. Am I mistaken??
Using AMA scoring doesn’t mean they can’t alter it anyway they see fit if they are in fact running it through their own org. It just means they adopted the snapshot of the AMA scoring system at that time when they setup the rules for their competitions. But their org is not beholden to the AMA RB.
Didnt mean to get off the once a month beat up on the ama track. Sorry guys..just curious...carry on..
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has anyone noticed the economy lately?
maybe that things are not good for business and individuals?
did you ever think maybe the motivation for the AMA to "follow the money" is to stay solvent?
to survive?
I am not a fan of qaudrotors, but i fly RC and fly ARF Rc,, because I use my time to build my stunt stuff, and my pylon race stuff, but I enjoy flying my ARFs because there is not emotional investment. I dont see that AMA is doing anything out of line, they are trying to stay ahead of the curve with consumer interest, but I really think its almost more about surviving,, my 2 cents worth
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The way things stand currently, if you are going to compete, you don't have much of a choice except to belong to AMA, kind of a necessary evil. That does not mean you have to like it and one certainly has the right to voice their dissatisfaction about it just as those who like drones and the way AMA operates have the right to show their support of the organization . I belong to that group that no longer competes and just builds and flies when they get the chance just for the fun of it and happen to think that AMA has morphed into a money grubbing organization that does not have the true model plane enthusiasts best interests at heart. Strictly my opinion and you know what they say about opinions and whether you like or dislike AMA is an individual's prerogative .
However, when I start to see words like "haters" and "angry old white men" directed towards respected members of our community thrown around on this forum, I have to wonder and question the mental process behind those kind of statements and the character of those who resort to name calling when they cannot compete in the arena of ideas without having to sink to those kind of tactics.
This is a control line forum, if you want to bash control line in general and the people who fly control line models, I have to wonder why are you participating in this forum at all?
As Radar on MASH used to say, "that is all"
Mike Griffin - angry old white man
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I live in second biggest town in Michigan. how many control line kits do you think they sold this year. how many last year. how long do you think the one kit the hobby shop has will set on the shelf. CL is a very small fish in a big pond. I my self will be gald that all the haters are gone. Just get out and say no more. We will not know your gone.
it was 0 and 1 and ?
Steve
It's not the lack of control line coverage that bothers me. We're a very small fish in a big pond, I get that. I have nothing against multi rotors, they look fun. I'll probably own one and enjoy flying it one day. It's the complete lack of modeling features in a magazine that is called "model aviation" that gets me. I understand building model airplanes from scratch or even a kit is a dying art. I also understand that the AMA is perfectly content to let it die. It is not an organization that promotes and protects the interest of the members that it represents, that's a role it plays for it's advertisers.
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Jim you make a good point and most of us get it. There are just a few who don't. You stated your point very well.
Mike aka "angry old white man"
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Well I haven't been an AMA member as long as one of the kids I looked up to, Randy C. and Walter W. of the Flying Eagles of KCK. I signed up in 56 and competed with an engine that people said didn't exist at the time. Have never let my membership lapse in all that time. I figure these so called drones are another fad that will die or slow down in time like CB radios. But I wonder what the die hards said when CL said when CL was starting and then the advent of the glow plug. And to think my first plane was a ready to fly A-J Firebaby. By the way I graduated in 60 and was not in high school yet, so it had to be my first contest in 56.
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However, when I start to see words like "haters" and "angry old white men" directed towards respected members of our community thrown around on this forum, I have to wonder and question the mental process behind those kind of statements and the character of those who resort to name calling when they cannot compete in the arena of ideas without having to sink to those kind of tactics.
Mike Griffin - angry old white man
Well, you can expect that to be thrown around after a while when there are at least several threads a month, maybe even a week, that are all about bashing MA and the direction of the AMA. It's the same old same old thing every single time.
"I never read MA I just throw it out."
"MA sucks."
"No one builds anymore."
"Quads are going to kill the AMA."
"Qauds are a money grab and they dont care about us."
And on and on and on and on..... And you wonder why people throw around the grumpy old men tag. You even put it in your
signature. Then in the very next breath some will say, now how are we going to get the younger crowd interested again in CL....really??
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Well said Doug
My modeling interest is not adversely impacted by anything the AMA does or does not do when taken in context of the 41 years I have been an on and off member
You should have heard the older Amateur Radio Operators (HAMs) squeal when the FCC proposed to drop the Morse Code requirement from the Tech and General license.....ten years later the sky did not fall, no one seriously quit the hobby, and the airways did not get supper polluted with LIDs (licensed idiots) causing any more interference than was already the norm.
Right over my shoulder I have RC planes, cars, boats and a few of the easy to fly helicopters all in the same area as my foam and or balsa control line planes...I quit the only club near me (45 miles) because the grumpy old men there ran off dozens of young curious potential members with their constant drone about this or that (mostly an anti electric and 3D hatred). These same guys are in wonderment why there used to be over a hundred members with a crowded flying field every weekend to 27 now and "no one to go fly with"
KD5NCO No Code General and refuse to be ashamed that I did not want to memorize Morse Code or use a Mode (CW) that I am not interested in... I enjoy all my hobbies, try hard to foster the interest in my younger family members and friends
As a parting thought, because I flew an ultra lite airplane I owned and I used to be a Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) member. They (EAA) seems to do a better job of promoting aviation to youth than any AMA effort.... On the other hand there are TOO many examples of our own that actively support youth group model building and flying.... Captain Black Hawk comes to mind... That the AMA should actively support
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I am through commenting on AMA. They are a non entity to me to the way I participate in flying.
Mike
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I am on the road right now and do not have my mag at my disposal, but I did notice an ad in the current MA for battteries I believe, stating "we weren't here at the beginning (of model aviation sic) but we will be here at the end". I find this slogan somewhat ironic...
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No matter what your opinion on the AMA as an organization maybe we can all agree that they put out a lousy MODEL AIRPLANE magazine.
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No matter what your opinion on the AMA as an organization maybe we can all agree that they put out a lousy MODEL AIRPLANE magazine.
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Roger that. More like a toy catalog.
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Well, I'm not an angry old man and anyone who calls me one to my face will probably get punched, and punched, and... LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Randy Cuberly
PS: Anyone that's really paying attention to what's happening in our society today would have to be a little angry...or stupid!
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So witch are you Randy. Oh ya you said that your not angry.
Steve
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Check out the Prez's Christmas photo in the President's Perspective column on page 6, "Santa" proudly pulling his new drone/copter out of the gift bag, the bag that's likley hiding the bulge in his pants. What a tool. D>K
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Don't throw them into the trash can. Toss them into the recycle bins. I did mine tonight. At least the paper is good for something... LL~
Thanks Ty that's a great idea, I'll have a whole bunch of them loaded and ready for the next pickup. y1
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So witch are you Randy. Oh ya you said that your not angry.
Steve
Well, I'm smart enough to spell "which" correctly! So...I guess we know which you are.
Besides my PHd says I'm not stupid uhhh well not all the time anyway!.... LL~ LL~ LL~
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Some thoughts:
AMA has to include something between the covers, how many of us have submitted articles about CL? Have you ever submitted a plan or a modification of an existing model? I haven't.
How about pictures of a contest? I think most communicate on-line now.
If we don't send them anything, how can they print it?
George
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Well, you can expect that to be thrown around after a while when there are at least several threads a month, maybe even a week, that are all about bashing MA and the direction of the AMA. It's the same old same old thing every single time.
"I never read MA I just throw it out."
"MA sucks."
"No one builds anymore."
"Quads are going to kill the AMA."
"Qauds are a money grab and they dont care about us."
And on and on and on and on..... And you wonder why people throw around the grumpy old men tag. You even put it in your
signature. Then in the very next breath some will say, now how are we going to get the younger crowd interested again in CL....really??
Awesome Doug!
Quad copters are all over the magazines because people buy them.
Hobby shops don't stock control line kits because people (in general) don't buy them.
Hobby shops go you of business because people don't spend money there.
I keep hearing people saying they are going to not review their AMA membership due to quad copters, and yet bitch about the AMA? HuH?
Do you think the AMA would know you left or even care? They don't because there are 10000 potential new members for every control liner .
The AMA will adopt to the mainstream as you would expect.
It's not some ordained right because you spend (or don't) $75 a year.
Maybe all you negative energy guys should all form a little club? Elect officers, publish a magazine that meets your needs, get insurance. I won't join
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Some thoughts:
AMA has to include something between the covers, how many of us have submitted articles about CL? Have you ever submitted a plan or a modification of an existing model? I haven't.
How about pictures of a contest? I think most communicate on-line now.
If we don't send them anything, how can they print it?
George
George I have submitted three different articles pertaining to CL to Model Aviation over the years. Not only did they not print them, they did not even acknowledge that they received them.
Mike
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Well, I'm smart enough to spell "which" correctly! So...I guess we know which you are.
Besides my PHd says I'm not stupid uhhh well not all the time anyway!.... LL~ LL~ LL~
Excellent Randy.
Mike
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I don't really care what the AMA prints between its magazine covers. I only read it if there is a C/L article (seldom).
I pay my dues only because it is required. Our flying field requires AMA. Also any contest I enter requires it.
It's just that simple.
Floyd
Floyd, I have to agree with you on this: "I only read it if there is a C/L article (seldom)." They, the magazine publishers, can't print what they don't receive!! Apparently, remaining crop of builders and flyers aren't creating, building, writing and submitting enough articles in enough quantity to flood the magazine. They, the complainers, seem to forget there was a time when there were enough "interested" builders, writers and articles submitted to support the publishing of five (5) magazines!! Where are those creative minds now?? Who picked up the gauntlet?? Remember, for the most part, if you want a drink of water, you have to get up and get it ....... if you want more C/L articles and designs in print, "you" have to write them! If the current C/L flyers could submit just ten (10) articles per month out of the 50 states, 120 articles per year, I bet there would be a significant change in the construct of the magazine, the marketing and over time, the advertising or am I missing something?
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I have had three articles published in Model Aviation magazine and have submitted two more. If you have an idea for an article call J. Smith at (765) 287-1256 extension 225 and discuss it with him. I have found Jay is easy to talk to.
The best "story" about quad copters I have read was in the comics section of our local news paper. Quad Copter flying was the subject of the Comic Strip "CRANKSHAFT" by Batiuk & Ayers. It was in The Indianapolis Star, Monday November 9, 2015 through Saturday November 21, 2015 except Sunday November 15, 2015.
Clancy
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I'm very happy to see that some folks defend the AMA on this issue. It confirms my theory that there are some people that are so indoctrinated into a warped society that they will accept anything that comes from what they believe to be an authoritative source. Be good little robots! Perhaps someday you will become human...or maybe not.
Randy Cuberly
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Clancy is right if you call Jay and propose an idea he might bite. But you have to have high resolution pictures and an idea.
The other item I have noticed that not many people take pictures and send them into anyone who writes a column. Cell phones have become the new camera for almost everybody and how often do these pictures get sent out people who maintain the CL websites and write the columns. When I attend a CL contest I pull out a real camera with a zoom lens and take lots of pictures. The Lafayette Esquadrille CL website has pictures from our events and information on the CL contests we host during the year.
My point is that even if you only submit a picture to the disctrict VP column or other folks who write columns that can help promote our events.
These are the kinds of items that we can propose
reviews of kits or ARF's
construction article with plans
Technical or how to articles
Contest articles
Send stuff to the disctrict VP
send photos and info to folks who write columns
Focal point
Lots of choices...remember to send High resolution photos instead of the tiny pictures you normally see on a website
Fred
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Jim C. Of course I agree. MA magazine has indeed published my feature construction article on "Wildman 60". That was back when Bob Hunt had some clout with the mag. I'm not sure the present MA staff would consider it, unless the manuscript was in perfect condition "ready for print".
Floyd C.
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Floyd, I have to agree with you on this: "I only read it if there is a C/L article (seldom)." They, the magazine publishers, can't print what they don't receive!! Apparently, remaining crop of builders and flyers aren't creating, building, writing and submitting enough articles in enough quantity to flood the magazine. They, the complainers, seem to forget there was a time when there were enough "interested" builders, writers and articles submitted to support the publishing of five (5) magazines!! Where are those creative minds now?? Who picked up the gauntlet?? Remember, for the most part, if you want a drink of water, you have to get up and get it ....... if you want more C/L articles and designs in print, "you" have to write them! If the current C/L flyers could submit just ten (10) articles per month out of the 50 states, 120 articles per year, I bet there would be a significant change in the construct of the magazine, the marketing and over time, the advertising or am I missing something?
And you know what,,,,,SN is going to be the same way if people don’t start writing and submitting articles. Bob Hunt asks for articles and writers in EVERY ISSUE! He is still begging for content every month. There is no longer an abundance of info ready to be printed.
I am the Dist 8 rep right now and I receive information regularly from TWO people in my district. One submit pics from every contest he goes too and the other submits content and pics. That is all I receive on a regular basis. Why? Is all of the content and how tos about CL already done? Are people tired of doing it? Do people not want to even try? I am not sure but it is happening at an alarming rate. I have been the rep now for 2 terms and put it out there to several people in my district that I won’t seek another term, life with three kids under 12 is just too darn busy, and no one wants to step up. I will posting this in my next column as well.
So, while all of you are griping about the AMA SN is shrinking on its own. What are we going to do about it?
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AMA may not be a business but it's existence depends on memberships. I don't have numbers but would bet money the existing "model builders" (both RC and CL) could not support the AMA. It needs quad and ARF buyers to stay in business.
It would support an appropriately de-scoped AMA just fine. The issue is that they don't want to de-scope it, they want it to grow and grow and grow like a for-profit business. It's largely run by "big fish in a small town" businessmen and that is their model for success. This is how "marketing experts" operate. As in 2004, I think it is a mistake, and is absolutely not necessary for the survival of the AMA. It *is* required to keep up a massive cash flow.
They do not operate as a "service" organization that most here would want them to be, so I am not wasting a lot of effort trying to fight them in this case. We should certainly look at an alternative because this war has long since been lost.
Brett
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I'm very happy to see that some folks defend the AMA on this issue. It confirms my theory that there are some people that are so indoctrinated into a warped society that they will accept anything that comes from what they believe to be an authoritative source. Be good little robots! Perhaps someday you will become human...or maybe not.
Randy Cuberly
I am only defending the AMA in that they are doing what any organization would do, adapt or become extinct.
The AMA's membership base is aging rapidly, and they are reacting to it now.
Promote model aviation, it was free flight rubber only, then gas, then control line then RC and now this.
What would have happened if when that noisy gas engine showed up at contest the AMA would have said. "No we won't allow that!"
The other think that most of you don't see is you or I or the AMA of the FAA isn't going to stop the sales and use of quadcopters.
The AMA has figured that out early. I don't agree with their direction but they picked one, and have been consistent.
So why not try to provide some leadership and common sense? That is what the AMA's mission is.
So rather than bitch, send in articles to model aviation. Get involved in AMA and make a difference. (hard)
Or cowardly hide behind a forum and spew words about force you can't control. (easy)
A a mindless robot indeed. Wake up, it isn't 1962 anymore.
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So let me see if I can correctly interpret what's been written. The abundance of quad articles in MA does not come from the AMA bending over backwards to cover quads. It comes from the already overwhelming majority of AMA members whose primary interest is quads submitting their own content to MA?
Well if that's the case I feel little silly for causing such a stir.
My apologies.
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I am only defending the AMA in that they are doing what any organization would do, adapt or become extinct.
The AMA's membership base is aging rapidly, and they are reacting to it now.
Promote model aviation, it was free flight rubber only, then gas, then control line then RC and now this.
What would have happened if when that noisy gas engine showed up at contest the AMA would have said. "No we won't allow that!"
The other think that most of you don't see is you or I or the AMA of the FAA isn't going to stop the sales and use of quadcopters.
The AMA has figured that out early. I don't agree with their direction but they picked one, and have been consistent.
So why not try to provide some leadership and common sense? That is what the AMA's mission is.
So rather than bitch, send in articles to model aviation. Get involved in AMA and make a difference. (hard)
Or cowardly hide behind a forum and spew words about force you can't control. (easy)
A a mindless robot indeed. Wake up, it isn't 1962 anymore.
Dave,
I sincerely believe you're a good guy and that you believe what you are saying, but you're missing the theme of what is really going on. Read Brett's post above. It says essentially that the important issues for the AMA to address is the membership. They are constantly looking for new cash flow. The way to do that is through constant marketing and addressing NEW memberships. Is that their Charter! I think not! They are supposed to be associated with education about model aviation, not how to market the latest flying toy!
I understand that our society has become one of instant gratification and that people have learned to expect to achieve something without expending much effort. I just don't like to see what has happened to an organization that has responsibility to it's membership, constantly deny that membership and latch on to the latest and greatest toy just because it flys.
I personally have nothing against "drones", quad copters, arf R/C, ready to fly R/C etc. I just don't believe it falls under the mantle of Modeling, and object to an organization that lives supposedly for modeling and the modeling membership but basically ignores that membership and endorses instead a mantra of marketing toys to feed their pocketbooks and grow the organization into something it was never intended to be. All the while capturing and holding the competitive membership with rules and insurance that they have fostered to be necessary for competition. They have established themselves as the controlling authority for MODEL AVIATION while, in my opinion, ignoring as much as possible the actual modeling community.
Yes I realize that the building community be it Control Line, Free Flight, or R/C is grossly in a minority but it's the AMA that has fostered that situation from a beginning supported by the very core that they now wish to ignore! Were they a "for profit business" I would not object to their decision to follow the money but their charter is not as a business for profit. They are a service organization for modelers who now, primarily due to their direction, they no longer support, or begrudgingly support. They in fact act like a business aimed at marketing toys, and growing that toy marketing base at the expense of their base support!
Randy Cuberly
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<sigh>
First of all I do not agree with the AMA position on this, but I understand it.
The AMA is doing what it thinks it should do to attract new members, and provide leadership in model aviation.
It the AMA doesn't get involved in the drone situation the combination of FAA regulation, and death rate statistics will kill the ama quickly.
While some feel the AMA is not acting in the best interest of its current members, it must project what it's future member base might be. I am pretty sure that future member isn't flying a fox 35 on ringmaster in a ball field.
He is probably flying an ARF quad or something like that. This activity has the ability to attract a wide, younger member base.
All the bitching isn't going to change that.
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<sigh>
<snip>
He is probably flying an ARF quad or something like that. This activity has the ability to attract a wide, younger member base.
All the bitching isn't going to change that.
A change of leadership might and enough bitching can change that! Just watch what happens in Washington next year!!
Randy Cuberly
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A change of leadership might and enough bitching can change that! Just watch what happens in Washington next year!!
Randy Cuberly
Make America great again!
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Make America great again!
Thanks for reminding me Robert. I need to order one of those hats.
Mike
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Thanks for reminding me Robert. I need to order one of those hats.
Mike
(http://i.imgur.com/1YOzGQJ.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/1YOzGQJ.jpg)
My dad was given a medal for his ww2 service Made in China. My Dad was kind of insulted when it broke. Everything is made in China that's why we need to play the Trump card.
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Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads. MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join. I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join. Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads? Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...?? I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.
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Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads. MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join. I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join. Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads? Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...?? I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.
I certainly don't have any inside information but do know a little about how advertising works.
Typically the magazine sales people contact the manufacturers and distributers of products they think would benefit by ads in the magazine. The manufacturers are usually only impressed by things like circulation and column content. In other words how many mags do they publish and how friendly is the editorial staff to their product. That could account for all the positive support from the AMA leadership in recent publications. They want the advertising money from who they judge to have the deepest pockets to buy multi page full color adds. My guess is that right now that's the multi rotor folks. Make no mistake, column content is always going to follow the advertisers in a commercial publication. He who pays the most gets the best press.
The error here on AMA's part, in my opinion only, is that the AMA Mag is not just a commercial publication but a member supported rag and should follow the membership. Is the AMA membership predominantly Quad rotor fliers. I don't really know but seriously doubt it. I do believe the AMA wants it to be because that's obviously where the money is!
Randy Cuberly
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Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads. MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join. I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join. Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads? Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...?? I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.
The adds are being run because the vendor believes he can make money doing it. They do market research. Its a new market and winning early market share is important.
Even if quads are not mainstream for the members, its easier to differentiate and get a larger margin on something new. Its hard to make money on yet another foam ARF, but a new quad that no one has yet is easier to sell.
Why compete when selling a common item like balsa wood or monokote, instead you can run many pictures, of new products with differentiation in technology?
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I believe, like others, the multirotor technology will benefit those of us who fly electric, but a lot of us(myself included) worry that on account of them, something big will happen that'll cripple our hobby and severely restrict model aviation.
No surprise that most of the folks here( and in other avenues of model aviation) are older guys who spend a lot of their leisure time enjoying it. As a retiree, I would go a bit looney n~ if I didn't have toy airplanes. We likely all have other hobby pursuits, but model aviation takes us through seasons of building and seasons of flying .
Good for our state of mind and general well being #^.
The majority are p.o.'ed at the AMA and MA for policies that we see are risking this. And, who among us older set wants to feel that we're being put out to pasture because our way of doing it is passé ?
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Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads. MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join. I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join. Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads? Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...?? I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.
Doug,
I'm not singling you out here, I'm just using your query as a spark. I also think you're correct about the MA rag itself not necessarily attracting new members. Probably 90% or better of all people that see it or even know the rag exists are present and/or past members.
I think it's all fairly simple, the whole thing is that quad advertising=EASY $$$ for the AMA and LOTS of it. The scenario is probably more like the quad manufacturers being smart by recognizing and approaching the AMA rag as another marketing avenue and the AMA "powers that be" seeing the easy money. As I have repeated it's ALL about the $$$ with the AMA, and not 1% about the modelers or the heritage of the AMA organization. If anyone thinks otherwise they're kidding themselves. The whore-like abandonment of the AMA's modeling heritage and absolute guzzling of this Kopter Kool-Aid is why the current version of the "AMA" can kiss my A$$.
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I am the secretary of our local model club. I fly both RC and C/L, but more C/L. I say this because I want you to understand my position on this issue. I think the AMA has made a colossal mistake in aligning itself with multi-copter flyers and manufacturers.
But the insurance is the problem. We require AMA membership for our field simply because we want to be assured that every guy flying there has at least the secondary insurance provided. Also, we can assure our landowner that he is insured for our activities on his property. Like most people in the hobby, I have a homeowner's or tenant's liability policy which will cover my activities, but I am unwilling to take the chance that others have kept up their policies (or even have one). In addition, many of our members travel to other fields which will require the same assurances even if a sanctioned contest is not on the menu.
If someone came up with a solution which provided the coverage AND was transportable to other venues, I believe the AMA would suffer an immediate decline in members (including me). Just my opinion. Dzl
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+1 to above.