Debate Zone. To be or not to be?

[RC Storick]

There seems to be some issues with the debate zone.

[Clint Ormosen]

There seems to be some issues with the debate zone.

Just with some of the people in it.

[Duke.Johnson]

Although I enjoy a good debate, it seems the Debate-Zone's intent was to debate which airfoil is better and so on.  It has turned into something else.  I do enjoy the political debates, very torn.  It does seem to bring out the worse in some.

[mike londke]

Dump it. Its ridiculous what's being posted there.

[Randy Cuberly]

Looks like it's going away before I had a chance to even visit it.  Maybe for the better...
Children can never play nice.  Some times some folks tend to think debating is preaching and everyone should agree with them and shut up. 
Good debating is telling someone to go to hell and have them looking forward to the trip!
Not knock down fighting or name calling. 
Present your side, rebut if necessary, and let it go!

Randy Cuberly

[MarcusCordeiro]

I have alot of fun with it... Some people need to relax a little more though.
Let's just keep it civilized...

Marcus

[Bob Reeves]

It is entertaining and I agree some need to chill out a bit but breaks the monotony. How many times can you read/post about a Fox 35 burping, how to plumb a tank or which engine.

Makes no difference to me one way or the other but can see it potentially breaking up friendships kinda like the PAMPA/Brodak wars did a few years back.

[john e. holliday]

I have taken part in some of the stuff on the section.   I too am not nice once in a while.   If kept, make it model planes and cars only.

[Dennis Moritz]

Dump it. I'm weak. I don't want to know what (some) (all?) of my friends are thinking.  But. I lack self control.

[BillP]

Keep it...because 99% of the personal and derogatory attacks are only from 2-3 posters (who flame instead of debate said postings that they don't like). They are the minority here and the ones stirring the pot. Anyone who doesn't want to read this stuff can (and should) turn the other cheek.   

bp
 

[Steve Fitton]

Keep it.  I employ a strategy of simply not reading threads I won't like (ie Obamacare).  But I enjoy threads like .45 vs 9mm, GT40 vs Ferrari, pipe vs st 60, etc.

[SteveMoon]

Keep it. There's some entertaining stuff there. And, of course, it
is NOT required reading. If there's something there that doesn't
interest you, then you don't have to read it. You don't have to go
to the debate zone at all if it's not your thing.

Later, Steve

[Mark Scarborough]

is it worth the bandwidth and server space?

[dave siegler]

to quote a famous person


Keeping the crazies over there, so they don't fight over here.

[Dave_Trible]

to quote a famous person


Keeping the crazies over there, so they don't fight over here.

Probably the best reason to keep it.  I like to think of this as a place of refuge FROM all that which is available in many other venues.  However some just can't help it so maybe it's better to leave it.  I personally stopped going there the first time a non- modeling subject came up.

Dave

[proparc]

Keep it.  I employ a strategy of simply not reading threads I won't like (ie Obamacare).  But I enjoy threads like .45 vs 9mm, GT40 vs Ferrari, pipe vs st 60, etc.

That's what I do. I just ignore the threads I don't want to take part in,(like Obamacare). Definitely keep it. I personally need a break from the Fox 35 burp threads. 

[Bill Johnson]

There seems to be some issues with the debate zone.

That's funny (ironic), Robert 

I think you're intent was to move debates that ruin other's threads to that area but once people get into it in someone else's thread, they just won't let it go and you don't want to restart the debate that lead to personal attacks in the Debate Zone.
 
It's a tough one, but if folks are letting friendships be ruined over a debate, they need to grow up.

[James_Mynes]

How about restricting it to debates about modeling subjects?

Bob Hunt

I agree. This is a modeling forum. take the rest of the stuff elsewhere.

I have taken part in some of the stuff on the section.   I too am not nice once in a while.   If kept, make it model planes and cars only.

Why models AND cars? Why not bicycles, guns, Maine Coon cats, or needlepoint? This forum is to advance the cause of control line models and the flying thereof. All of the other superfluous garbage that gets tossed around only detracts from that cause.

[Randy Powell]

Truth is, I don't much care one way or the other. Some folks have trouble ignoring foolish stuff.

[Chris Wilson]

There seems to be some issues with the debate zone.

Debates need constant moderating, so the real question is "can you spare the man power to moderate that forum properly?"

If 'no', then get rid of it as it will be a thorn in your side but if 'yes' then by all means keep it.

Thanks.

[proparc]

Debates need constant moderating, so the real question is "can you spare the man power to moderate that forum properly?"

If 'no', then get rid of it as it will be a thorn in your side but if 'yes' then by all means keep it.

Thanks.

That is a very very insightful answer. I need to copy this, so I can remember how to think "think correctly" if given a difficult question.

[John Sunderland]

 If it keeps the bickering out of the open forum and others I say keep it. That way those who need to vent can, and the rest of us do not have to read it while trying to engage in other subjects.

[Mike Keville]

It started off as a pretty good idea, but was soon overwhelmed with postings from a couple of lunatics who just wanted to stir the pot.  Might be okay to keep it if it could be confined to model airplane topics, but otherwise......

[De Hill]

I agree with you, Randy. I had the same problem that you are talking about on this forum a few months ago. 

De Hill

Looks like it's going away before I had a chance to even visit it.  Maybe for the better...
Children can never play nice.  Some times some folks tend to think debating is preaching and everyone should agree with them and shut up. 
Good debating is telling someone to go to hell and have them looking forward to the trip!
Not knock down fighting or name calling. 
Present your side, rebut if necessary, and let it go!

Randy Cuberly

[Serge_Krauss]

Until a weak moment recently, I avoided all threads where I thought people would misbehave. That weak moment was my own responsibility.

The Debate Zone does help keep the rest of the forum civil though. My real worry is that ill feelings will spread, and that otherwise reasonable and profitable friendships will suffer. The big problem is that several who do give thoughtful comments here do not know what debate and argument are and especially do not know that the way they express themselves is sometimes (too often) offensive and insulting. Personal statements are too often bound to be so. Argument can be accomplished best with absolutely no personal reference to one's opponent and minimal use of the first or 2nd person. Try finding THAT over there.

I suppose I'd prefer it to continue, distasteful as I sometimes find it, even though too many utter fictions will no doubt continue to be presented as fact, something with which I'd bet all sides in the political crap would agree ('won't change though!). So, regardless of my recommendation, I don't believe at all that there will ever be an actual argument-based debate over there. But, and here's my "best" reason, ...better there than here.

SK

[Randy Cuberly]

Until a weak moment recently, I avoided all threads where I thought people would misbehave. That weak moment was my own responsibility.

The Debate Zone does help keep the rest of the forum civil though. My real worry is that ill feelings will spread, and that otherwise reasonable and profitable friendships will suffer. The big problem is that several who do give thoughtful comments here do not know what debate and argument are and especially do not know that the way they express themselves is sometimes (too often) offensive and insulting. Personal statements are too often bound to be so. Argument can be accomplished best with absolutely no personal reference to one's opponent and minimal use of the first or 2nd person. Try finding THAT over there.

I suppose I'd prefer it to continue, distasteful as I sometimes find it, even though too many utter fictions will no doubt continue to be presented as fact, something with which I'd bet all sides in the political crap would agree ('won't change though!). So, regardless of my recommendation, I don't believe at all that there will ever be an actual argument-based debate over there. But, and here's my "best" reason, ...better there than here.

SK

Anyone who get mad at a friend over a discussion on a forum deserves to have no friends!

Arguments are arguments you don't have to hate people over them.  It shouldn't get to name calling!

Randy Cuberly

[Randy Cuberly]

I agree with you, Randy. I had the same problem that you are talking about on this forum a few months ago. 

De Hill

Yeah, I agree De...and you're apparently still doing it...

Randy C.

[Dennis Moritz]

KEEP THE DEBATE ZONE! How else can we change the world for the better. (0r worse.)

[Dennis Moritz]

Leonard allowed the free wheeling anything goes (almost anything) opinionating about the controversial topics of the day. Lots of donnybrooks over there. He eventually put a lid on it. Interesting how we reflect current trends in political stylings. We are "products" of our moment, aren't we, doing our considerably less talented O'Reilly Factor or Rachel or Reverend Al. I am fascinated by the degree to which the face-off yelling and screaming casting of aspersions has invaded (like in the Invasion of the Body Snatchers?) our discourse.

[Peter Germann]

There seems to be some issues with the debate zone.

Rename it: C/L Stunt Open Debate Zone
rgds. Peter Germann

[De Hill]

Yeah, I agree De...and you're apparently still doing it...

Randy C.

And so are you!   

[john e. holliday]

Randy C. the old retired preacher used to tell us that we really shouldn't hate any one.   It's just that we like some people more than others.  But this debate section is one that I look at once in a while.  Would you believe there are some sections of this forum I have yet to look at, or I did look at it I never went back. 

[Mike Griffin]

When you debate the virtues of Polyspan over Silkspan or IC engines to electric motors or most anything petaining to our hobby, you will have some disagreement but the chances of ruining a friendship or a heated battle ensuing are really pretty rare.

However, with the political atmosphere so volatile right now, when you enter this realm, things can get heated very quickly.  I think most or a lot of us on here are veterans and I find that veterans tend to be of a conservative mindset for the most part but you do not have to be a GI to be conservative.  I will be 66 years old next month and I cannot remember the country ever being so divided in my life.  We have a polarizing President and administration right now and I personally know of families and friends who have been torn apart because of the ideology of the chief executive and his cabinet.  When situations like this take place, we definitely have huge problems.  I personally feel that the country as we knew it as kids and as the founding fathers created it, is fast dissappearing.

It is hard or impossible to ignore what is going on in Washington and the change in culture it is creating unless you are just braindead. 

This volitale enviroment this has created brings out the passion in all of us who do not want to see this country destroyed by incompetence, greed and corruption and quite frankly, it is hard NOT to talk about it no matter where you are.  I cannot be apathetic about the decay of the morality of my country and I feel like I have the obligation and desire to stop it.

Robert, you are the creator of this forum and ultimately the decision to keep it or dump it will be yours.  As long as there are no restrictions on subject matter and when you delve into matters that pertain to one's core character and integrity, you will have very very heated rhetoric expressed.

Mike

[Eric Viglione]

Shouldn't this be posted in the debate zone? 

[Randy Cuberly]

Shouldn't this be posted in the debate zone? 

Absolutely not...the question to retain or delete was presented here.  That makes this the place to discuss the reasons for asking the question in the first place.
i believe the real problem is that some folks just can't stand derision of any sort and always want to put a lid on it...that's what makes the spread of evil so easy!

Randy Cuberly

[Bill Morell]

Well since there has been only 81 votes in 24 hrs. I don't think that dumping it is fair even if it is losing at this time. 81 votes tells me that only a small percentage or members uses it and for the most part most members simply don't care. If you don't like what is on there then don't click on it. How hard can it be???

[Randy Cuberly]

Well since there has been only 81 votes in 24 hrs. I don't think that dumping it is fair even if it is losing at this time. 81 votes tells me that only a small percentage or members uses it and for the most part most members simply don't care. If you don't like what is on there then don't click on it. How hard can it be???

Hmmmm...A cool grey head that I agree with completely.  Good on Ya Bill!

Randy Cuberly

[john e. holliday]

Remember that this is a long Holiday weekend.   I would think most of the members of this forum are busy traveling, eating, visiting and traveling.   I also stated in my E-Mails I would not do political stuff any more.  Yes I have slipped a couple of times.  Same with the nasty jokes, which remind me,  did you hear about short term memory loss.   

[Clint Ormosen]

80+ votes for a forum section that about 35 people have posted in? If you haven't been a part of it, your vote shouldn't count for squat!
It's like me voting to dump the "scale" forum. I don't use it, so why would I vote on it?

[BillLee]

... If you don't like what is on there then don't click on it. How hard can it be

VERY difficult to ignore when you use the "Show unread posts since last visit." link and the page is covered up with tens of threads that some yahoo that is off in left field starts in order to try and prove something!

I suggested a long time ago a mod to the forum where a user could ignore a user. Not the way it's now done, but rather to not ever let his name ever show up. Same need there for treads and forums.

[PerttiMe]

I don't care if a thread is in Debate Zone or somewhere else.
It always makes me sad and disappointed when people give me a full broadside for making an observation, offering a suggestion, or asking a question.

[Serge_Krauss]

Sheeesh... Even this simple question can't seem to be addressed directly by all, without national politics and innuendo. "derision"? Thanks a lot for that recommendation. I just looked it up and followed the various synonyms. The overall gist did not seem in the interest of enlightenment. Well, I just voted.

[Mike Griffin]

Me too Serge...

Mike

[Bill Morell]

Hmmmm, 24 more hrs and 7 more votes. Just dump it in the interest of those who just can't seem to be able to control themselves. If it stays and they suffer from it I would hate to have that on my conscience.

[john e. holliday]

Hey, on the Barton site they have the view posts since last visit.   I don't look at them all, just the ones I'm interested in.   Same here, some sections I don't even pull or have never looked at.

[Randy Cuberly]

Hey, on the Barton site they have the view posts since last visit.   I don't look at them all, just the ones I'm interested in.   Same here, some sections I don't even pull or have never looked at.

Hey Doc,
I've never visited at least half of the sections here.  No real curiosity I guess! 

Randy cuberly

[Mike Griffin]

Hey Doc,
I've never visited at least half of the sections here.  No real curiosity I guess! 

Randy cuberly

I thought I was the only one guilty of that. 

Mike

[Tim Wescott]

How about restricting it to debates about modeling subjects?

I second that, if the work load involved doesn't overwhelm the moderator.

[Randy Cuberly]

I second that, if the work load involved doesn't overwhelm the moderator.

UUUhhhhhhh...Sorry but I'm not sure I get the reason for that!  Isn't it OK to debate modeling subjects on the open forum?  Seem that's the place for it!  Why would you need a debate forum for that?

I thought the whole idea of the debate forum was to allow debates about other subjects...If not then it seems a waste and extra bandwidth and expense for nothing!
Of course this is just my logical opinion and your's may vary!!!   

Randy Cuberly

[john e. holliday]

Randy, are you saying we are to think logically?