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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: RC Storick on April 29, 2019, 02:47:39 AM

Title: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: RC Storick on April 29, 2019, 02:47:39 AM: This is my note to the manufacturer. It took 20 years to find a spray can primer that worked DC540. You have changed the formula and rendered it totally useless. I have done a side by side comparison video of this product. The question is do you even test this stuff before release?

https://youtu.be/b5gmazvJtEI
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Tom Vieira on April 29, 2019, 06:05:37 AM: gotta make the EPA happy! because, you know, us schmucks in the garage use sooooooooooo much of this "bad stuff" compared to large scale OEM's and repair facilities...
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Avaiojet on April 29, 2019, 09:00:19 AM: I've said many times in my builds, and finishing Threads I no longer use the 540 because I found a much better product.

No interest, nada.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: mike londke on April 29, 2019, 11:52:42 AM: Quote from: Avaiojet on April 29, 2019, 09:00:19 AM
I've said many times in my builds, and finishing Threads I no longer use the 540 because I found a much better product.

No interest, nada.
What is it?
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Clint Ormosen on April 29, 2019, 01:30:16 PM: I’m not sure what DC540 is, but what exactly is everyone’s a aversion to using one of the few paint systems known to work well for our planes? Most notably dope, original Rustoleum, 2 part epoxy, or two part urethane. All of which produce a beautiful finish.
There always seems to be an unending saga of people searching for something different.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Doug Moon on April 29, 2019, 03:24:34 PM: I used DC540 recently and it was the same CRAP you showed there. Than as hell and wouldn't cover worth a darn. I just thought it was my cans I had that were no good. Guess its back to mixed and sprayed primers. bummer.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Doug Moon on April 29, 2019, 03:27:06 PM: Quote from: Clint Ormosen on April 29, 2019, 01:30:16 PM
I’m not sure what DC540 is, but what exactly is everyone’s a aversion to using one of the few paint systems known to work well for our planes? Most notably dope, original Rustoleum, 2 part epoxy, or two part urethane. All of which produce a beautiful finish.
There always seems to be an unending saga of people searching for something different.

He is not talking about actual paint in this thread but the filler. NAPA DC540 was a high solids primer like you would get in a mix and spray setup prior to spraying your color. BUT it was in a spray can. This made it much easier to use. Especially on the small stuff.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Paul Wescott on April 29, 2019, 03:52:44 PM: Quote from: Doug Moon on April 29, 2019, 03:24:34 PM
Guess its back to mixed and sprayed primers. bummer.

Doug - Help a brother out: post a recipe for a home-mixed filler/primer?

Paul W.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Dane Martin on April 29, 2019, 04:29:38 PM: Quote from: Paul W. on April 29, 2019, 03:52:44 PM
Doug - Help a brother out: post a recipe for a home-mixed filler/primer?

Paul W.
Zinc Stearate and dope
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Will Davis on April 29, 2019, 05:56:08 PM: I bought a case of do 540 a couple months ago in North Carolina . I noticed a difference in coverage from can to can. At first I assumed the cans were not shaken enough, so I put them on the paint shaker for 15 minutes, no difference

The viscosity is different , coverage is thinner and drying time is longer on suspect cans.. After watching the video , I checked for labels , all had the old style factory label.

So back to mixing my own 131 s DuPont primer , with DuPont thinner, I have a gallon, probably enough to do me a few more years .

At about $ 235 a gallon for 131 s , the pints of Brodak primer is looking like the best option .

I liked the dc 540 for convenience , it appeared to be a very close cousin to DuPont 131 , which is now chromax 131 s primer
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Walter Hicks on April 29, 2019, 06:27:17 PM: Paul W Auto Primer two part catalyzed does not shrink . I think that is what he is talking about I use it in Grey, and White Primer I mix small portions and spray with an airbrush for small applications . Worth the cost great stuff.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on April 29, 2019, 07:10:00 PM: It would be helpful if they told us when the change was made and if the new stuff has a different bar code #. Then, it might be possible to buy up the existing "old stock ". Although not permanent, it'll help in the short run.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: wwwarbird on April 29, 2019, 08:58:32 PM: Couldn't watch the video because it says my browser doesn't support it. >:(

So Sparky, you're thinking they changed the recipe? I've really liked the DC540 since I started using it on the last few planes, dries super fast and sands easily. My only complaints would be that coverage-wise a can doesn't seem to go that far and the dry overspray that builds up in the rest of the room seems pretty excessive. I haven't bought any for a while now though, hopefully it'll still be the good stuff next time I need some.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Gerald Schamp on April 29, 2019, 09:36:44 PM: Sparky, today I went to NAPA store to try and find a rattle can of alternate primer. I bought a can of Dupli-Color primer. It seems to have the same ingredients that the other primer had. The #is: DAP Gray Primer. I sprayed some on test piece, it's a little thinner than the DT, but seems okay. I let it set for 10 minutes, sands easy, sprayed some clear Brodak dope on and it seems fine. Might be worth checking into on your end. I'm going shoot my plane tomorrow and see how it does. Thought I'd let you know.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: billbyles on April 29, 2019, 09:37:40 PM: Quote from: wwwarbird on April 29, 2019, 08:58:32 PM
Couldn't watch the video because it says my browser doesn't support it. >:(

Same here
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: RandySmith on April 30, 2019, 12:22:00 AM: Quote from: Dane Martin on April 29, 2019, 04:29:38 PM
Zinc Stearate and dope

Yep, I have been using and selling it for decades now, I have tried most everything else including said rattle can primer, There is NOTHING lighter than ZS filler and dope, and it sands very nice mixed into a dope base . and since it is a mineral, it does not absorb dope/thinner and keep getting thicker, It also take a very long time if it does, to settle to the bottom of the jar because it is so light

Randy
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Steve Dwyer on April 30, 2019, 06:40:30 PM: Before we completely write off NAPA's Sherwin-Williams primer, I stopped by the nearby NAPA store today and discovered they offer A Duplicolor Primer Filler that contains the Acetate and Ketones and not the Aromatic Hydrocarbon ingredients. The photo shows the Filler Primer on the left, the 2 in 1 Primer in the center has the Aromatic in it so stay away from it, on the right is the DC 540. Has anybody tried this Filler Primer? Unfortunately it is over twice the price of the DC 540. There is also a DC 502 Flat Black with the Ketones in it at the same $4.50 price as the 540, any experience using black primer? I'd expect it would chalk up and lighten when sanded.
The NAPA branch called their paint specialty store who said the dry solvents (Ketones) are probably more expensive than what ever the Aromatic ingredient is.

Steve
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: wwwarbird on April 30, 2019, 07:04:26 PM: Quote from: Steve Dwyer on April 30, 2019, 06:40:30 PM
Before we completely write off NAPA's Sherwin-Williams primer, I stopped by the nearby NAPA store today and discovered they offer A Duplicolor Primer Filler that contains the Acetate and Ketones and not the Aromatic Hydrocarbon ingredients. The photo shows the Filler Primer on the left, the 2 in 1 Primer in the center has the Aromatic in it so stay away from it, on the right is the DC 540. Has anybody tried this Filler Primer? Unfortunately it is over twice the price of the DC 540. There is also a DC 502 Flat Black with the Ketones in it at the same $4.50 price as the 540, any experience using black primer? I'd expect it would chalk up and lighten when sanded.
The NAPA branch called their paint specialty store who said the dry solvents (Ketones) are probably more expensive than what ever the Aromatic ingredient is.

Steve

What is the Aromatic and what does it do, or not do?
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Steve Dwyer on May 01, 2019, 05:20:41 AM: Looked up the definition of Aromatic Hydrocarbon which requires a chemist to interpret which I'm not, keytones, however, include many volatile solvents including Acetone and this is no doubt why it dries so quickly.
I suspect the driver to eliminate their use is the EPA.
Steve
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Paul Wood on May 01, 2019, 08:26:17 AM: Quote from: Steve Dwyer on April 30, 2019, 06:40:30 PM
Before we completely write off NAPA's Sherwin-Williams primer, I stopped by the nearby NAPA store today and discovered they offer A Duplicolor Primer Filler that contains the Acetate and Ketones and not the Aromatic Hydrocarbon ingredients. The photo shows the Filler Primer on the left, the 2 in 1 Primer in the center has the Aromatic in it so stay away from it, on the right is the DC 540. Has anybody tried this Filler Primer? Unfortunately it is over twice the price of the DC 540. There is also a DC 502 Flat Black with the Ketones in it at the same $4.50 price as the 540, any experience using black primer? I'd expect it would chalk up and lighten when sanded.
The NAPA branch called their paint specialty store who said the dry solvents (Ketones) are probably more expensive than what ever the Aromatic ingredient is.

Steve

Steve,
I have been using the DupliColor filler primer for a couple of years. I've used it on four airplanes and apply DupliColor lacquer over it. Then a 2 part clear coat. The filler primer is the best I've ever found for a spray can product. But I have never used 540, so I can't give you a comparison. The filler primer has a lot of pigment and sands easily. Good stuff as long as the EPA doesn't change it.
Paul
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: EricV on May 01, 2019, 08:53:43 AM: I have used Sherwin Williams Ultra Fill primer from my local Sherwin Williams Auto Paint store in the past, and it was available in rattle cans for years. When I saw your note about Napa's private label DC540, I thought maybe you could try a spray can of Ultra Fill which I assumed it was the same product. Maybe the Ultra Fill formula remains the same (I hope) ?

If that doesn't pan out, I remember that you could also buy Ultra fill in quarts ... maybe that is still the same formula since their are no pressure/thinner/atomization requirements in the quarts?

Otherwise, I'm also a fan of Randy's Zinc/dope mix. It works too. Though I have to admit, my last couple of planes were done with KlassKote white epoxy primer, since I've been using KlassKote colors anyway. It is surprisingly light. Sands & fills nicely, and gives a nice white blocking coat to put on a very light coat of white base to really make the colors pop. It actually adds up to a lighter finish, at least for the way I do it. If you are One-With-The-Gun and don't like to block sand, then forget it, stick with Zinc/dope.
Eric
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Steve Dwyer on May 02, 2019, 07:14:08 AM: Eric,

I'm a gun guy and the S-W Ultra Fill Primer has caught my interest especially since it is available in qts. and gals. just curious about the price? Think I'll check it out.

I've was using talc and dope and then shifted over to the Windy silver approach on the past few planes with good results and presently have several quarts available. The zinc and dope I've not tried.

Your KlassKote path looks like a winner as well and if it's lighter it's a big benefit. Looks like there is no etching needed on metal so it must have better than average adhesion characteristics.

I have just received my order of butyrate colors for the two birds now ready to finish, so what's the best primer??

Decisions, decisions.... thanks for your input.

Steve
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Mike Griffin on May 02, 2019, 10:28:02 AM: Robert,

Thank you for posting this. I started using it when you first recommended it and really liked it. I noticed the last batch I bought was not covering right but did not know why. I do now. I will be in search of another primer. Thank you again.

Mike
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: jfv on May 02, 2019, 10:45:11 AM: Oh well. I wanted to stock up on my supply and bought a case a while back. Just opened it to check and as luck would have it, it's the new stuff.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Steve Dwyer on May 02, 2019, 11:48:05 AM: Ty,

Lets us know how it works out.

Steve
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: RknRusty on May 02, 2019, 09:17:17 PM: Whenever you can't watch a movie like Sparky posted, do the following: Right click the picture, select "Copy video URL" from the popup menu, and paste it in your browser's address bar. Hit enter. It will always work unless it's been removed.

Don't let your computer boss you around, grab it's throat and choke the information out of it.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Scott Richlen on May 05, 2019, 03:39:29 PM: Sparky:

Thanks for letting us know. I had just bought a can of the stuff a couple days before your video. Happily it has the "tones in it. I'll avoid the new stuff.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Gary Dowler on May 05, 2019, 05:59:37 PM: (http://i63.tinypic.com/1589zbd.jpg)

Coming from an automotive repair background , I've used this. Available at any shop selling automotive paint. It's a sandable primer, for filling imperfections. Works great, and I've applied both rustoleum and dope over it.
Apply, when dry sand it down (dry or wet), repeat if needed.

Gary
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Larry Wong on May 05, 2019, 07:41:36 PM: When using dupli color primer and sanded, Do you put a thin coat of clear dope over the primer?
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: Gary Dowler on May 05, 2019, 10:14:54 PM: Quote from: Larry Wong on May 05, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
When using dupli color primer and sanded, Do you put a thin coat of clear dope over the primer?
Never done that. Ideally after sanding there is very little of this left on the surface beyond what's filling scratches , etc.
Title: Re: DC 540 and my note to Sherwin Williams
Post by: eric greeson on May 13, 2019, 09:25:56 AM: Hey guys can someone give me the recipe for the Zinc Stearate and dope , Still doing 1/2 A but moving toward larger and have some in need of repair from Hanger rash, Been using air brush type sprayer if that matters , Thanks , Eric n~