stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Tom Vieira on November 04, 2019, 06:49:38 PM
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All,
This is what I'm talking about....
A gentleman on a FB group I help to moderate is designing a 19-25 sized trainer, and started asking about where to post it on here. But then after discussion, this is what he had to say....
...this needs to change...
Unless you are happy with just getting whatever mileage you have left in the hobby, and then letting it whimper in to nothing.
Don't shoot the messenger.
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Where is his post?
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Yes where's the post?
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On here? He's not even bothering, due to the reason he quoted above...
It's the "image" that is portrayed by the forum, whether it be actuality or not.
Image is everything.
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On here? He's not even bothering, due to the reason he quoted above...
It's the "image" that is portrayed by the forum, whether it be actuality or not.
Image is everything.
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So, you're not even going to direct anyone to the supposed post? Not much to whine about if that's the case. D>K
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Hey TJ,
I can see where you are coming from but I think your associate and perhaps you are being a little thin skinned!
Yes, there are quite a lot of posts and threads about expert level or advanced flying, design and technicalities. I am a complete novice and have posted what some may think inane or boring questions but they have all been answered politely and I have been treated courteously and with respect.
It is true not everybody on the forum gets on with everybody on the forum . But those seem to me to be specific individuals and nobody has ever been dismissive of me.
I can say I have been educated and encouraged the whole way. I think the forum should at least be given a chance.
Regards
Craig
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Guys, totally missing the point.
The post isn't on here at all, it's on the FB Control Line Flying page.
The point of it is, the guy knows about stunt hangar, a place that likes to think of itself as a mecca of CL. But this guy feels it's a waste of time to post here, as it's not some super cutting edge full size stunter, which shouldn't be that way at all. Though, I can easily see why he would think that.
It's not about everyone getting along, or anything like that.
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On here? He's not even bothering, due to the reason he quoted above...
It's the "image" that is portrayed by the forum, whether it be actuality or not.
Image is everything.
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As someone who has been on here since the beginning, I would say that the guy has not even really visited Stunthanger at all! The answer he posted is pretty hard to understand but I would guess that he thinks RCGroups is better? I don't do RC Groups but he would have to explain in a little bit better English why he thinks it's better. It's guys like him that help perpetuate this false "elitist" thing.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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The point of it is, the guy knows about stunt hangar, a place that likes to think of itself as a mecca of CL. But this guy feels it's a waste of time to post here, as it's not some super cutting edge full size stunter, which shouldn't be that way at all. Though, I can easily see why he would think that.
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Total bull, if he doesn't give it a shot here he has nothing to whine about. At this point this post is nothing but an insult to the majority on this forum.
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Guys, totally missing the point.
The post isn't on here at all, it's on the FB Control Line Flying page.
The point of it is, the guy knows about stunt hangar, a place that likes to think of itself as a mecca of CL. But this guy feels it's a waste of time to post here, as it's not some super cutting edge full size stunter, which shouldn't be that way at all. Though, I can easily see why he would think that.
It's not about everyone getting along, or anything like that.
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Hi TJ;
Well I for one don't understand why he would think that, if he had in fact explored the whole forum. If he never joined, he can not do that. If he never joined, he can not benefit from others experience. He's not the only one who has ever designed a trainer. I fly Expert level stunt, and I have designed a trainer! I have had countless beginners on the handle, and collectively among the membership here, countless people have been helped along the way. If you can can contact him, you should have him explain his experience in more detail. But I think he's all wet and is selling Stunthanger short.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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He appears to have taken a look at a forum and pre-judged how people will react to him or his interests. That reflects what people do here a lot less than it reflects his personal feelings. I spend a lot of time on mid-sized planes powered by, say LA-25's or old Fox .35's, and I would not hesitate to talk about them here - when I have something to say. The only thing I've stopped posting is some answers to some technical questions, because Forum members have expressed actual animosity to technical answers to technical questions. No one's perfect, nor is any Forum. But I haven't seen the particular bias alleged by this person.
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Guys, totally missing the point.
The post isn't on here at all, it's on the FB Control Line Flying page.
The point of it is, the guy knows about stunt hangar, a place that likes to think of itself as a mecca of CL. But this guy feels it's a waste of time to post here, as it's not some super cutting edge full size stunter, which shouldn't be that way at all.
The vast, vast, majority of posts are about less-than-state-of-the-art systems or designs, and there are very few, almost none, about top competition design or engine or motor systems. I mean, look at the Engine forum, there is nearly nothing about competitive systems in the entire archive.
The same accusation was levelled at Stunt News, even when it was 99% about sport flying. We had many complaint letters about the "overly technical" content, which drove some of the rest of us to Stuka Stunt and Stunthanger. Wild Bill essentially quit contributing, more or less - I was embarrassed for the event when that happened, and his stuff was about as accessible as it could get.
It is hard to imagine how you could change any of this. We have a huge range of skill levels here, from rank beginners to World and multi-time National Champions, every post is not going to address everyone or be relevant.
Brett
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Perhaps the guy doesn't want his feelings disregarded as "total bull" or like being told he has insulted the majority of the members without even making a post. Very welcoming indeed. n1
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I don't see the issue or the post. Just one more FB troll. This is easy If you like SSW or FB or SH use the one you like. I personally don't see how you could eve use FB like here to get answers scrolling in one long post of irrelevant tops to your question pictures that have nothing to do with the topic.
So I guess I even missed the question.
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I don't see the issue or the post. Just one more FB troll. This is easy If you like SSW or FB or SH use the one you like. I personally don't see how you could eve use FB like here to get answers scrolling in one long post of irrelevant tops to your question pictures that have nothing to do with the topic.
So I guess I even missed the question.
Hahaha, threads here get just as equally out of control as to relevance to the stated topic....
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The vast, vast, majority of posts are about less-than-state-of-the-art systems or designs, and there are very few, almost none, about top competition design or engine or motor systems. I mean, look at the Engine forum, there is nearly nothing about competitive systems in the entire archive.
The same accusation was levelled at Stunt News, even when it was 99% about sport flying. We had many complaint letters about the "overly technical" content, which drove some of the rest of us to Stuka Stunt and Stunthanger. Wild Bill essentially quit contributing, more or less - I was embarrassed for the event when that happened, and his stuff was about as accessible as it could get.
It is hard to imagine how you could change any of this. We have a huge range of skill levels here, from rank beginners to World and multi-time National Champions, every post is not going to address everyone or be relevant.
Brett
Brett,
Our back and forth recently about beginner is pretty much what the guy is feeling.
Throwing away beginner = who cares about beginners and anything aimed at them.
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This is my first season flying stunt since 1974. I've used this forum to ask questions and found the answers helpful. Not only the technical side, but also information about who is holding contests, how they went, how old flying buddies are doing, etc.
And, not to forget, we've also traded the items needed to fly, from small parts like glow plug chargers up to large planes with pipes. The local hobby shop isn't what it used to be. However, with clubs, forums and eBay, it is a great time to fly control line.
Peter
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This place isn't Isky's but its a pretty good compromise. However, it is Stunt Hangar and some take that to heart but they don't mean to be stand offish, they're focused. I don't go to Brotherhood of the Ring for Carrier info. But there's what, several thousand control line flyers in this country? How many million modelers? Kinda like park flyers wondering why they should pay the AMA anything. As if the rest of us don't wonder already.
There is no one stop shop for Control Line, many people have to just make do. There's no one stop shop for RC either. Or Guns, religion, whatever.
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I'm not saying there isn't a ton of good info on here, and helpful people. Far from it.
I'm saying it's the image portrayed. Two totally different things.
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Totally get this. this culture is really true at this site . There are people that have not flown in decades spouting off on how this or that won't work. Foxes suck, super tigers are better blah blah.
I have learned to get a thick skin and write them off as idiots.
I posted a picture of a model in the live chat that nearly a hundred flights on it and someone said "with that wingtip and airfoil it will never fly" Huh? Sure that is why it flew 99 times before
I used to get defensive now I just mark out the bad people and move on.
but this also happens in:
ham radio
Bicycles
programming languages
So tell your friend that that there are people that care and will help
A quote from Guy Kawasaki fromer Apple exce seems to fit
Dont let the Bozos grind you down.
"Don’t let the bozos grind you down. The bozos will tell a company that what it’s doing can’t be done, shouldn’t be done, and isn’t necessary. Some bozos are clearly losers–they’re the ones who are easy to ignore. The dangerous ones are rich, famous, and powerful–because they are so successful, innovators may think they are right. They’re not right; they’re just successful on the previous curve so they cannot comprehend, much less embrace, the next curve." [/b]
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Brett,
Our back and forth recently about beginner is pretty much what the guy is feeling.
Throwing away beginner = who cares about beginners and anything aimed at them.
I don't understand, where to you get that? We help beginners so much we push them through in an afternoon, that's why it doesn't serve a purpose any more, and no one enters it. We get, generally, plenty of new fliers, they just wind up in Intermediate right away, and bypass beginner.
The entire idea about that change is to give the new flier some meaningful competition, and, similarly, through the skill classes, also have meaningful competition that is approachable. This change would mean nothing and have absolutely no effect on The Usual Suspects,. It is intended to help the less-skilled and has no other effect. It also helps the organizers - without whom we would have no contests at all.
If that is what you are taking away from this board, or these conversations, you are fundamentally misunderstanding the point, and if you are telling people stuff like this, the rest of us aren't the problem.
Brett
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As a new member my experience has been 100% positive. Every question I have asked has been answered, and I have asked some very ignorant questions. I am pleasantly surprised and grateful at how freely the top fliers share information in a sport that is often won or lost by two or three points.
Tim Just
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Guys,
You can argue it until you are blue in the face....
But if that is what outsiders of the group see, it is what it is!
If you're happy that some people would rather avoid S.H. and go elsewhere, well, I guess then that's how it continues. Kind of a crappy business model when it's slim pickin's to start!
Just my two cents. Don't shoot the messenger....
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T.J.,
Last year I was the “outsider”. What I found was an amazing exchange of ideas, opinions and technology. Sprinkle in some beautiful art as well. From my perspective there was nothing off-putting at all.
Tim Just
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I'm cool with everyone here but I will warn that in today's digital world perception is reality.
If there's one person with that perception there may be more.
Maybe we need a section more geared towards beginners. You know, where the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask. It should be moderated enough to keep it welcoming and upbeat. If someone has a disagreement with advice don't duke it out in there, create a thread elsewhere?
I'll bet with all the great people here if we wanted to we could come up with a great resource to welcome people to the hobby.
All IMHO, all opposing viewpoints welcomed.
Chuck
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Tim, I was too. And S.H. is a valuable forum with good people.
But, like I said, you can say it until you're blue in the face. It doesn't change other people's impression of the joint just breezing over it.
Chuck has the first real actionable idea other than just saying "everything is great, the problem is with the people on the outside".
Thanks Chuck!
Guys, brainstorm here on how to outwardly show that S.H. is for everyone from ardent competitor to rank beginner....
I like the beginner forum idea! Perhaps extend that a bit in to S.H. videos on FAQ's about CL, how to set up a basic work bench/shop, etc?
Un/fortunately, my situation has changed, and I'll be moving next week. So, with some help, I'm happy to offer up my new pad to setting up a workshop video! Hahaha
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I don't see how anybody could do a "fly-by" of SH and come to any conclusion as to what is here. It functions simultaneously at several levels and at any given time there are ten to twenty active threads of which about ten to twenty are different. I have been quite active here for just over a year and I see nothing but support at every level. If a beginner gets on he/she is bombarded with support and help. It is a place where the real elite's can trade ideas and to those of us further down the ladder it is like joining them in a building session except we don't drink up their beer. Stupid questions get answered as if they were intelligent and it is really rare that a thread digress into name calling.
If somebody thinks that we are only open to discussing big 75 powered PA ships then they haven't looked very deep and I would remind them that it is "Stunt" Hangar and most of us fly big 75 powered PA planes so that is what we talk about.
I would hope that our "mystery caller" would actually post some beginner questions. I think they would find it to be like throwing a worm into a pond of hungry bluegills. It would never hit bottom.
Ken
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I have several opinions and all positive as relates to Stunt hanger, Stuka Stunt, RCG, RCU, CoxEngine forum, MACA, Stunt News, Flyinglnes...
My only lament is too many who transitioned to facebook (Yahoo is about dead IMO) fail to realize a large following of old guys (not me) will never have a FB account. Much now on FB is by folks who also have areas here or elsewhere in forums that the DO NOT update any more.....They are missing a bunch of interested members
On the occasions I have pontificated or opined a belief or thought, here or elsewhere, and some member thought I was full of hooey, I never took it personal. Especially where some much more knowledgeable member was schooling me with well reasoned truth or facts. Sometimes the responder Private messaged me, other time open in public.
Thin skinned or arrogant on public forums is not a place to be for some.
Stunt Hanger is MUCH more than a premier site for professional PAMPA stunt aerobatics: Combat section, Electric flight, Engines, Scale, Racing, Engineering, classifieds, and many more, each with a set of expert members and neophytes sharing knowledge and asking seemingly dumb questions.
I have never, when asking a ignorant or dumb question, felt slighted or belittled. I dare say the experts here, like Randy Smith, or Brett Buck and too many others have always honored me with (many times) long and reasoned responses.
If the OPs acquaintance spent some brief time, and felt we are an argumentative or acrimonious crowded...then he misses so much that is great--- and that is a shame
Over time we have had a member or two that got butt hurt...some of them are back...
Over time we have had some arguments that got too personal....Robert does a good job moderating ...better than a bunch of websites
That there are several members who like to push other members buttons...I dare you to prove this dynamic does not happen in the other Twitter, facebook, other forum sites...tis human nature for some to be self aggrandizing.
Gather 35 like hobby people around a Face to Face venue and there will still be this dynamic ...but usually muted because of no anonymity. But it still is there.
I much prefer on these sites--- REAL names, and some geographical location....goes a long way to better answers and offers of F2F help
If the subject person of the OP does NOT desire to exploit Stunt hangar...that is a shame...there is so much to learn and share here.
When I was a tad learning in a school yard or neighbor street...all I had was a library, catalogs, magazines, dad, or some other father or older kid. I was way to ignorant back then to even know the questions to ask
In my first 90 days on these forums from 2011 when I came back to aeromodeling, I learned more that the years from 1965 to 1972 when I was playing airplane...
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I'm cool with everyone here but I will warn that in today's digital world perception is reality.
If there's one person with that perception there may be more.
Maybe we need a section more geared towards beginners. You know, where the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask. It should be moderated enough to keep it welcoming and upbeat. If someone has a disagreement with advice don't duke it out in there, create a thread elsewhere?
I'll bet with all the great people here if we wanted to we could come up with a great resource to welcome people to the hobby.
All IMHO, all opposing viewpoints welcomed.
Chuck
y1 H^^
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In my first 90 days on these forums from 2011 when I came back to aeromodeling, I learned more that the years from 1965 to 1972 when I was playing airplane...
Excellent post - I had the same exact experience after being out 35 years. I often wonder what I would have achieved if I had this knowledge bank to draw on back when my reflexes surpassed those of a startled opossum.
Ken
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Guys, brainstorm here on how to outwardly show that S.H. is for everyone from ardent competitor to rank beginner....
This is a great Idea :! For it to work it would have to be front and center and not buried in the list of forums.
Maybe a button on the main screen or at least top of the forum list.
Sparky - are you listening? :D
Ken
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Guys,
Snip
But if that is what outsiders of the group see, it is what it is!
Snip
T.J.
While respecting your good intentions I'd like to point out you are using the plural form (outsiders) while discussing the post of a singular opinion and, unfortunately, not a very well articulated one; suggesting perhaps the writer may not use English as a primary language. That doesn't make his comments inherently incorrect, but might suggest that his comments do not reflect the same level of suggested antipathy of S.H. users as appears at first blush.
Remember that Sparky has a host of forums available for discussions. It might be that a suggestion to your friend/acquaintance that he peruse that long listing to find a forum more germane and responsive to his specific interests.
IOW, condemning SH in toto is just a step too far.
Ted
p.s. Just noted after posting this that Chuck Smith had already mentioned the concept of a beginner specific forum. Just goes to show that good ideas are frequently the result of what starts out as significant disagreement but can morph into good ideas for a solution.
Classic Stunt Hangar! Thanks yet again, Sparky!
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Hi Ted,
This is just the latest example I have run across, and it happened that I had time to write about it. It's not an isolated incident...
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All this for one disgruntled FB modeler and his "do not shoot the messenger" pal here? Sure there are more who have an ill conceived perception but that goes with every web site out there. No forum is going to please everyone and trying to is a pixx poor way to manage one. I don't think a beginner's section is needed as there are plenty of forums already in place. How many experts are going to read a beginners forum to share info? I probably wouldn't go there (often). Let beginners post in the open forum wherever they see fit.
I think the OP needs to re-read Sparky's post and be less condescending about this site. R%%%%
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Oi.... here we go with the flying over the conversation and not absorbing.... and assuming it's one person, when stated previously it's not an isolated incident.
....and the admitting that he wouldn't wander in to the beginner section to help out. Fair enough. I guess it should only be, say 5 guys in there anyhow to give consistent solid advice.
Go ahead admins, lock it up, no point any further.....
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[quote author=T.J. Vieira link=topic=54999.msg567422#msg567422
Kind of a crappy business model when it's slim pickin's to start!
Just my two cents. Don't shoot the messenger....
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[/quote]
Do you have a suggestion for a "better" business model?
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Paul,
That's why I said we should be brainstorming here, not arguing the point that there are those that feel S.H. can be a bit....snobbish... while once you get in the door, and used to the different personalities, it's not the case. But some people when window shopping get that vibe, and I think that kinda sucks. Don't you?
I never said I have all the answers, I'm just reporting a specific instance of a repeated theme I've noticed elsewhere outside of S.H.
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Perception, right? Not necessarily equal to reality.
What is the goal of making a post or joining a forum? If it is just to get validation and a shiny gold star on your forehead and tolerate no counter-point discussion, then a person is really missing the purpose behind organizing or participating in a forum. To take council from those who have vastly greater experience or knowledge should really be viewed as a gift. If the advice and council of a genuinely more skilled or experienced person challenges your own experience, perceptions or biases, then it is really time to humble yourself and consider their words. Or, conversely, stay forever ignorant and just search for places that only offer acknowledgement, validation and those aforementioned "gold stars."
Personally, I would rather take my council from the real experts here, even if that council might cause me to completely rethink and perhaps abandon my (much less experienced) biases. That's how I (we) learn, change and grow.
It is possible to actively participate in any hobby for 1,2,...5 decades and still be terrible at it. If one's terrible skills and terrible yet unchangingly wrong, tiresome, incessant or outdated advice are met with equally frustrated or brusque reproofs from the champions and pro's in that hobby then I suppose that is just how the cookie crumbles.. Either stay offended and ignorant forever or grow some thicker skin, evolve and improve.
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Brent,
Completley agree.
However, the perception isn't that people are trying to help, it's just that it's full of reasons not to do something, rather than a single reason to do something if that makes sense.
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At some point in our lives, we have all had someone who you can not say anything correct to... IE: mothers-in-laws get a bad rap for this. Like "Hi, nice to see you!" and they somehow can take offense, and come back with the typical "Oh yeah, what is that supposed to mean?!".
My point is, if the chip is already on the shoulder, and someone is predisposed to dislike upperclassmen from previous bad experiences in school, or stunt guys from a bad experience at the field, you are not ever going to be able to dissuade them from that way of thinking without making overtures of kindness to show them otherwise. And that is not likely to happen on a public forum.
I've seen local examples of similar thinking when our club was taken in by an R/C club. Despite them rolling out the red carpet for us, there were some old timers at the time that had deep entrenched hard feelings towards R/C guys who had looked down on C/L guys back in the 1970's... and never got over it, so they were very apprehensive about our new hosts. It was almost impossible to tell some of them that most of those guys were dead or out of the hobby by now, and that these new guys thought what we do is pretty cool, so just let it go already.
If your friend feels that way from what he sees here, just remind him, it's not a C/L thing, it is more likely an Internet thing, and just people in general, so he should let it go and use the forum as the great learning tool that it is.
My .02
EricV
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Eric,
Again, not an isolated incident.... just one I cited....
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Guys, totally missing the point.
The post isn't on here at all, it's on the FB Control Line Flying page.
The point of it is, the guy knows about stunt hangar, a place that likes to think of itself as a mecca of CL. But this guy feels it's a waste of time to post here, as it's not some super cutting edge full size stunter, which shouldn't be that way at all. Though, I can easily see why he would think that.
It's not about everyone getting along, or anything like that.
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Well, tell him from me that there's absolute top guys on this site (like Brett Buck, Ted Fancher and a few others) and plenty of second raters (like me) who will be happy to help. He won't be in a room with the big boys trying to shut him out -- he'll be in a room with the big boys welcoming him in.
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Brent,
Completley agree.
However, the perception isn't that people are trying to help, it's just that it's full of reasons not to do something, rather than a single reason to do something if that makes sense.
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if that's the perception, someone needs to get their vision checked.
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12 Years ago when I came up with this idea I tried to factor in everyone, since then I have learned you just can't please everyone. So I can only please one person a day and I guess today just was not their day. Maybe tomorrow you never know.
As to the person who couldn't register, YOU MUST USE YOUR REAL FIRST AND LAST NAME. I had a person from holland tell me the security questions didn't work yet they have worked for over 4500 guys. I use to have it set to auto-register but I AM THE guy who approves everyone, so if it doesn't pass the smell test it does not fly.
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Sparky,
Has nothing to do with handles vs real names.....
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Sparky,
Has nothing to do with handles vs real names.....
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when you have a better idea start your own site. Good luck
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With all due respect to all here, I think this whole subject sucks! I hate the word "culture." It has that four letter word in the front of it, "cult." I think it implies that we try to influence people's thinking and way of doing things. We have a collection of human beings here and we all have personalities. Some get along and some don't. That is human nature. The OP is most definitely wrong in his perception of things, and , again with all due respect, T.J I think you are caught up on the wrong side of this. Some people can screw up a two car funeral. Some people, who if you put them on a bench,. gave them a six pack of beer and told them, 'There, that's your job for the day." would still not be happy with something. This is a model airplane website that is based on stunt but caters to all forms of control line models. How in the H E double toothpicks does that imply a culture? Or the name "Stunthanger" imply anything like that? I ask because I will bet a dollar to a dozen donuts that he has never explored the site. And the one statement " However, the perception isn't that people are trying to help, it's just that it's full of reasons not to do something, rather than a single reason to do something if that makes sense." Does NOT make any sense, at least to me. That implies to me that a person has no patience, is short sighted and narrow minded and can'rt be bothered with anything that they don't think is important. They need to learn to disseminate information and then they will find more than what they think they need.
Again, the OP is the one that needs an attitude adjustment. There is no need for some kind of sappy 'Welcome Wagon." And the "beginners only" section will not work either. To some, it will be like being relegated to the kids table at Thanksgiving! It will be descended upon by the ones that are like this original poster and turn into one big power trip for a few people. Since this forum has been around, there is NO subject that hasn't been discussed at the fullest extent. What WOULD help is a list of frequently asked questions pinned to the top of each section. There is a start of this in a few sections and could be added to. Another thing, if it can be done, is a guide on how to use the search function, and have that hit people right between the eyes when they sign in. It could include possible key words and such. In this day and age, and especially on sites like this one, there is SO much data on here that you have to be pretty specific with key words to get good results, and on how to ask the questions. I'm sure that it bugs some people to read the same old questions for the umpteenth time, and that sets some on edge. Call me a grumpy old man if you want, but Lincoln said it best, "You can't please all of the people all of the time!"
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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. Call me a grumpy old man
You are a grumpy old man. LL~
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Perhaps the guy doesn't want his feelings disregarded as "total bull" or like being told he has insulted the majority of the members without even making a post. Very welcoming indeed. n1
Sorry Bill, but I found the untrue accusation offensive and think a lot of others here should too. And, the claim he's making is total bull. If he wants make them and, especially, take it to the level he's done with creating the post he'd better be ready to get bit back. I suppose his buddy could have made the accusations himself but that would require the guy pulling his head out of whatever hole it's apparently in. D>K
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Sorry Bill, but I found the untrue accusation offensive and think a lot of others here should too. And, the claim he's making is total bull. If he wants make them and, especially, take it to the level he's done with creating the post he'd better be ready to get bit back. I suppose his buddy could have made the accusations himself but that would require the guy pulling his head out of whatever hole it's apparently in. D>K
He probably means me, primarily, and nice use of the "lurkers support me in email" gambit.
But if he has a point he has a point, no matter why he may have made it. I did a quick count down the first two pages of the General, Building Techniques, and Engine Setup forums, 100 posts each, and categorized them into "primarily of interest to Nats contenders" or not. I got 4 posts in General, 3 Posts in Engine setup (two of which I started myself), and about 8 in Building Techniques - most of which would be of interest to both a gray area, which I counted anyway.
That means 96%/97%/92% content that is primarily directed towards casual fliers, sport fliers, and low-time and developing competition pilots - or off-topic. I don't think anyone begrudges that, but it doesn't suggest that people here do not help or try to drive off beginners. It's also very similar to Stunt News before the Brodak war, SSW in the 2002-2010 time frame, and the old RCO forum, because I did the same thing for the same reason then. It would certainly be hard to figure out how any *more* could be done, without simply banning any mention of competition at all.
Personally, I stand on my own record, about 25,000 message board posts on 4 different forums, virtually all of them trying to pass on information that I have learned the hard way. I do not attempt to placate or give the advice I think people want, if it differs from what they need, and I don't care for being manipulated or having people play "gotcha" games. I am closing in on 60 years old, I have been flying stunt seriously for 40+ of those, and posting on message boards about it since they were invented (~25 years, old Compuserve forum), so I am probably not going to change
So, I don't think facts support the assertion/accusation, and given that "image" means exactly nothing, I think there's not much else to say about it.
Brett
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Hi all,
this has all gone way too far and way over the top.
I am new to control line and have no issue asking my probably stupid questions.
If someone's, "Perception", is that SH is an unaproachable, "Elitist", forum let them have it. There perception that is.
TJ, you seem to be championing the cause that SH is not welcoming yet I read some of your posts and can't see any issues with responses you have received.
If someone is foolhardy enough to believe that perception is reality good luck to them. I don't think SH has issues with welcoming people aboard or how posts are responded to and I, again, am NEW!!!!
I really think this is a storm in a tea cup and we have bitten into it.
Craig
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I'm not trying to champion for any cause....
Like i have said, before the mob settled in, yes, this place is full of helpful people (go back and read...)
I am merely reporting that there are those out there who feel that the S.H. community is a bit unwelcoming. It sucks that people feel that way, which i also have said previously. Yes, some is by email talking with these people, but plenty of them are also in a face to face manner.
I was simply trying to bring this to the groups attention to brainstorm ways of making everyone feel welcome, to further the knowledge base and discussions on here.
BUT
Apparently everyone is completely happy, so, oh well..... end of story.
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It's the Tone Deaf arguing with the Tone Less.
Keep it up guys.
I think the site works fine. (truthfully, that part wasn't for giggles)
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Hey now... Pavarotti doesn't hold a candle to me when I'm singing to the steering wheel! n~ LL~
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Oi.... here we go with the flying over the conversation and not absorbing.... and assuming it's one person, when stated previously it's not an isolated incident.
....and the admitting that he wouldn't wander in to the beginner section to help out. Fair enough. I guess it should only be, say 5 guys in there anyhow to give consistent solid advice.
Go ahead admins, lock it up, no point any further.....
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Seems to me you're the one "not absorbing". I didn't feel a comment on the "others" was necessary as you only listed one specific example...but it really makes no difference as no site is going to change anything based on one example from FB. You cherry picked the (often) out of my sentence and inserted your condescending bias. So, here's the point and clarification...I will help anyone, anytime but will not likely visit a beginners forum often. Just like i don't fly electric or competition and don't visit those topics often. I doubt there are many here that read every topic or sub forum either. You're implications about this site suggests it's elitist, in my opinion you are showing the elitist attitude when posts don't agree with you. Sparky is quite clear on the direction here and so are the majority of others.
Peace and go fly...or something.
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Well, seeing as my primary interest in C/L has been nostalgic combat planes for decades, I hardly fit into the "Stunt Elitist" category. Therefore, I seldom ask questions, or post anything, pertaining to the TOPIC OF CHOICE here. Yet, there has never been any negative that I can recall concerning me, my posts, or my topics I post about. I also frequent the "Combat" forum here, but many, many times an "off topic" combat topic will make it to this main forum, and again, no negative responses from the stunt guys.
From my limited experience here:
* Overall: When it comes to BS, no quarter taken, none given. Basically the constituents calls a spade is a spade as they perceive it.
* Admittedly, there does to seem to be a bit of friction between a very few individuals here, but it's kept between themselves as they go at one another. (Which, frankly, I find quite amusing at times and very entertaining! Sick humor on my part, I guess.)
* I do not recall ever seeing a newcomer run off, or belittled, etc. Instead, I've seen them welcomed back into the fold (if they had previous C/L experience) or welcomed as a newcomer WITH offers to help in any way they can.
SO, there you have it: Stunt Hanger as perceived by this non-stunt person that hangs out here. Obviously, my opinion I express in this post is a "FWIW" deal, which ain't much.
Andre
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Hi TJ. Im the one who posted about if Stunthangar is the correct place to put my .19 design. Well, i do have a Stunthangar user (but im not really involved here), and someone contacted me to tell me that you created a thread about this (the one who contacted me was very specific to not mention him, dont know why). The point is i looked all post here. First i wanted to answer and explain what was my point behind my question i made TJ, and say sorry to the people who may feel offended by my words. But then i saw some sort of offensive post related with my poor english, and even called as a "FB troll". Then i changed my mind; basically i dont want to offend nobody and i dont want to make you fight with the other guys. I just wanted to know if SH is an apropiate site to put my plane. Maybe it is full of nice people here. I want to say thanks anyway TJ, youre always up for Control Line and seems like some guys didnt understand what are you trying to say. Just dont worth it, but thanks anyway!! And the people feeling offended by my FB comment: sorry. Im not feeling "discriminated" by stunters, i just say that i equally like stunters as 1/2A Musciano designs. Anyway, thanks TJ and sorry if i was disrespectful with someome here.
Branko Ljubetic
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Welcome to Stunthanger, Branko! Glad to have you with us.
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Hi TJ. Im the one who posted about if Stunthangar is the correct place to put my .19 design.
Branko Ljubetic
You can place it anywhere you like and I am sure there would be interest. Ask any question you like and I am sure there will be answers.
I am sure your English is much better than I can speak your language. So no worries welcome aboard.
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Hi Branko,
I've been watching your build in RCG. I'm no expert, barely a hobbyist!
I used to fly Cox CL when I was a kid. That's why I like your Cox hat.
Forty years later I can afford dope, balsa and engines. So I'm back to trying to fly CL again. To be honest, I've smashed every plane I built in the last three years.
Those were my growing planes. Now I want to build a more suitable plane for learning more than roundie-roundie.
These guys here have been very patient with my questions. My building has gotten better. And I've made virtual/real connections with people that have made getting supplies easier than eBay, for better parts.
I have a box of balsa that will become a P-40 with the Akromaster wing. So I try to find videos of other Aktomasters to see what engines those pilots flew. I think I saw one on an airport parking lot with a real airplane behind it...was that your video?
Please stick around here.
Jim in MS
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Thanks Brent!
Thanks admin. Im not a troll, i just wanted to know if here are people interested in smaller planes. You see, in Control Line Flying group (the one where TJ is the most active member) there are people that post buildings of plank wing cox planes, and everyone have good advice. Maybe im wrong, but i cant find a place to put a build log, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Jim, sure thing here talk some control line big players, i just dont know if here are people interested on small planes, there is nothing "wrong" with that, maybe there is other places for that and here is just stunters. In fact it is not a "welcoming" attitude or something related with it. It is more related with my personal interest on building logs or small planes.
Sure thing here is nice people willing to help. I just dont want to make a mess or something, and TJ is a really enthusiastic Control Liner just willing to help. Thanks everyone.
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Thanks Brent!
Thanks admin. Im not a troll, i just wanted to know if here are people interested in smaller planes. You see, in Control Line Flying group (the one where TJ is the most active member) there are people that post buildings of plank wing cox planes, and everyone have good advice. Maybe im wrong, but i cant find a place to put a build log, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Jim, sure thing here talk some control line big players, i just dont know if here are people interested on small planes, there is nothing "wrong" with that, maybe there is other places for that and here is just stunters. In fact it is not a "welcoming" attitude or something related with it. It is more related with my personal interest on building logs or small planes.
Sure thing here is nice people willing to help. I just dont want to make a mess or something, and TJ is a really enthusiastic Control Liner just willing to help. Thanks everyone.
There is lots of stuff like that in the 1/2 flying forum.
Everybody is here to have fun, ultimately - because you sure aren't going to get rich in model airplanes .
Brett
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There is lots of stuff like that in the 1/2 flying forum.
And even though I'm devoting what little modeling time I have to "full sized" stunters (and posts like this, from work) I like the little ones, too. The 1/2A forum is pretty active here; you can post a build thread there, or in the open forum. I'll be watching...
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Maybe im wrong, but i cant find a place to put a build log, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Jim, sure thing here talk some control line big players, i just dont know if here are people interested on small planes, there is nothing "wrong" with that, maybe there is other places for that and here is just stunters. In fact it is not a "welcoming" attitude or something related with it. It is more related with my personal interest on building logs or small planes.
Sure thing here is nice people willing to help.
Here on Stunthangar there is a separate forum section for practically every segment or category that exists related to Control Line building, flying, finishing, engine tuning, buying, selling...the list goes on and on. You'll find anything and everything from the smallest most basic sheet wing type models up to World Competition winning types, and EVERYTHING in between. One just has to pick and choose, looking through the many sections offered within the forum, if it's C/L related it's here.
The "Building Techniques" section is a great place for starting a build log. Or, they can be added into one of the various model categorical sections relating to the particular type of model, including the section that is specifically intended for 1/2A models. There are plenty of hobbyists here interested in small to mid-size models, in reality, it's probably the majority. Very many here also enjoy just building and flying for fun, without ever entering competition.
No matter big or small, ultra basic or super techy, backyard flying or World Competition, you can join the crowd and find something about it here. y1
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We all have what we're comfortable with. I'm grateful for it all. I read posts on SH for about two years gathering so much information until I was ready to make my first comment. I was so happy when nobody said, get out of here little boy. Then I made another comment and someone agreed with me. Then I realized I could ask the dumb questions too and I wouldn't get kicked out.
How did I get that perception? I'll guess...
Experts can be intimidating, but they're also very knowledgeable and in this case, very friendly. But...that was me.
I'd love to see some of this expertise packaged into more stunt news articles. I know many of you veterans read and contributed to everything back in the day, but my subscription only goes back about three years. Anyhow, let's get in some more flying.
Oh, there is that one guy on the FB control line group who is never worth listening to. He made me feel like I wasn't worthy to hold a handle because of some honest comment or question I asked. But hey, we all have at least one part of our own bodies that stink.
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Now I realize why Stunt Hanger is my number one site. I have only one facebook page I go to so I can keep up on the combat doings. Was asked not to post any more on a couple of other facebook sites. But, like one of the guys at work asked me, "How do you get by with statements You make". The statements were made to supervisors fresh out of tech school that knew only what the school taught them. Nothing beats hands on experience. I'm still learning thinds in CL modeling. D>K
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I'm totally fed up with the sensitivity crap.
Bob Hunt
Frickin' BINGO!