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Author Topic: Golden State Contest results info /pics?  (Read 4347 times)

Online Brent Williams

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Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« on: October 18, 2015, 03:19:24 PM »
Any word on how the Golden State contest turned out? 
Just curious, as Gordan Delaney and Roger Kramar were there to represent for the Utah contingent.
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John Gluth

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2015, 03:55:15 PM »
Yes! GSSC event results and photos with contestants names please.
John

Offline BYU

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2015, 07:54:42 PM »
I was in the top 5

Offline Shawn Lenci

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2015, 08:09:27 PM »
Top 3 in Expert...Buck, Fitzgerald, Walker...less than 1 point between all three.  603.3, 603.0, 602.7 I believe.  Entire 2016 F2B team all in attendance.  Pretty cool.  I enjoyed meeting "Bob's Your Uncle"...super nice guy.  Delaney had some engine run issues.  The wind blew pretty much all day today.  Shawn
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Offline Gordon Van Tighem

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2015, 08:17:29 PM »
Results:
Gord VT
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2015, 08:22:01 PM »
Yeah...to make it easier, Howard 4th and Orestes 5th. I didn't see the results for Bob's Your Uncle.  ;) Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

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Offline Larry Fernandez

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 12:34:25 AM »
[quote author=Shawn Lenci link=  I enjoyed meeting "Bob's Your Uncle"...super nice guy.

Yep, Uncle Bob is a hell of a guy. I love his twisted dry British humor. He taught me everything I know about Mono-cote finishes.
He is also a member in good standing, of the Buttafucco Stunt Team

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team 

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 12:40:30 AM »
Too bad you couldn't be there, Larry.  It was a heck of a contest. 

Gordan won Classic and won the Concours award for his Tony.  Roger's is virtually identical.  Humdinger stunters.
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2015, 01:15:33 AM »
Here is a picture by Joan or Chris Cox of the Tonys.  Roger's says fumume on the flaps, which seems to have something to do with Famous Dave's barbecue. 
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Offline BYU

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2015, 07:36:32 AM »
Yep, Uncle Bob is sheer hell. I love his twisted dry British humor. He taught me everything I know about Mono-cote finishes.
He is also a member in good standing, of the Buttafucco Stunt Team

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team 

Sir is being over generous…

I believe the famous kit manufacturer and raconteur - Eric Rule of RSM was the person who celebrated your Monocote skills and made them what they are today.

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2015, 09:23:18 AM »
I had a great time in at GSSC as usual. The best people always show up. Flew classic on Sat and judged expert on Sunday. Man, it's really hard finding fault with some of the top guys flights. You gotta look closely. Having three judges was sure the way to go.

It was a quite windy on Sat afternoon. I made a huge mistake trying to burn in a really good flight when I should have kept it in survival mode.
-Clint-

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Online Gerald Arana

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2015, 10:54:56 AM »
Too bad you couldn't be there, Larry.  It was a heck of a contest. 

Gordan won Classic and won the Concours award for his Tony.  Roger's is virtually identical.  Humdinger stunters.


Howard;  I thought they had four strokers in them. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Jerry

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2015, 12:43:30 PM »

It was a quite windy on Sat afternoon. I made a huge mistake trying to burn in a really good flight when I should have kept it in survival mode.

      I actually did not see yours in particular, but a recent tendency around here has been forcing the maneuver size down, sometimes below the specified dimensions. That's generally a good thing, compared to the usual 75 degree high loops you routinely saw in Intermediate and Advanced in other areas. I think that's because Ted, David, and I emphasize that in our flying. Anyone who watched carefully on Sunday saw that the very top pilots, just back from the TT, fly as close to the specified dimensions as possible even in the moderate to strong air. But to do that also requires lightning cornering and very well-controlled speeds, unusual even in most regular airplanes and almost impossible with classic airplanes. Thats why they are "classic" and no one is flying Gieseke Noblers with Foxes at the team trials, including Gieseke himself when he was still around.

     John Callentine showed the way to deal with the issue for classic (and again in Expert). He was flying one of the older Rabe Mustang designs, and may have had the least corner of any airplane in the event. But, he never let himself get into the "coffin corner" by making sure that he always had sufficient space to make it. He was also aided by the fact that he had plenty of tension everywhere even at reasonable speeds. He was larger than the average, but not large enough to cause a large score loss, compared to making it the right size and getting burned by blatant issues trying to force the corners tighter, or crashing. Knowing how to do that without making the maneuvers absolutely gigantic is also an art, just a matter of knowing the technique and practicing it. There's only really a few places to make compensations - Brian Moore's unfortunate vertical 8 issue was (pardon the pun) a classic and back in the day with 4-2 break motors, you either learned the trick or crashed a lot.

   When you do it right, the airplane goes in *exactly* the same place it would go in the dead calm, so you really aren't making the maneuvers bigger. But you *are* putting in control effort in radically different ways than you normally do. You should have heard Chris Cox and I going "oooh!" frequently 3-4 seconds before it actually happened when we were over there judging Advanced - once you know where the problems are likely to come, you can anticipate it well before it happens, because the corrections have to be put in well in advance.

   In fact, that is true of most of the corrections for shapes regardless of the wind. You can't wait until the crisis point and then try to fix it, you have to correct it, in general, half a loop before the crisis point. That's were a lot of coaching goes wrong, say, if you are missing intersections on a round loop, you can't just jam the controls right as you get there and try to fix it, you have to correct that long before you get there.

  I heard reference to Paul Walker writing an article about how to fly in the wind, and there aren't too many people better at it than he is, probably worth checking out. I think you saw his second flight yesterday - I question the supposed 25 mph part but it was definitely blowing pretty good when he flew, and you saw firs

    Brett

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 02:37:36 PM »
Very good explanation, Brett. Because that's EXACTLY what happened to me. Although I was (or at least thought I was) compensating for the wind by slightly enlarging my shapes, it wasn't by near enough. I totally underestimated how fast the model would be moving and dropping out of corners. If I hadn't been worried about putting up a better number in the 2nd rd I wouldn't have flown at all, like a bunch of other smart people decided to do.

BTW, I saw ALL the expert flights.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 07:05:37 PM by Clint Ormosen »
-Clint-

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Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2015, 02:56:27 PM »
Hi Clint - really sorry about your model, looks like you hit the top of the fin in an outside somewhere. From the pictures it looks fixable, hope so anyway. That is such a pretty model it deserves fixing. Sorry I had to miss the contest due to family obligations.

Brett - not sure what Brian was up to the vertical 8s, but it sounds like what I was doing wrong at Napa with the Olympic. Both you and David said I was putting a hook into the intersection, then losing it in the upper loop. This may be worth a separate article or at least a thread here on how to avoid the ten most deadly wind sins. Oddly I seem to have this problem more with the Olympic than any other models, including the Smoothie. Of course an LA46 in a Smoothie cures a lot of ills.

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2015, 03:42:41 PM »
Hi Clint - really sorry about your model, looks like you hit the top of the fin in an outside somewhere. From the pictures it looks fixable, hope so anyway. That is such a pretty model it deserves fixing. Sorry I had to miss the contest due to family obligations.

Yup, hit the fin first. Totally fixable. Have no fear.
-Clint-

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Offline Brian Massey

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2015, 05:22:58 PM »
       I question the supposed 25 mph part but it was definitely blowing pretty good when he flew, and you saw firs

    Brett

I was holding my Dwyer wind meter during the flight, and yes, one gust recorded 25mph. Sustained winds were lower, more in the 18-21 range; still kinda breezy for me.

I'm just finishing up my CD report and a scores recap for Howard. Hope to get a few pics posted later.

Brian
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2015, 06:17:08 PM »
Hey, Larry F

I still have your Best Monokote trophy from the AMA Expo. How can I get it to you?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline Scott B. Riese

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2015, 06:27:59 PM »
How in the HEii did Howard even make it to the top 5. Can't take off, Can't land, Can't fly inverted. OH......It's not SALEM  VD~

Congrats to all. Hope to see you all soon.......
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2015, 07:41:08 PM »
Howard can too takeoff...he just needs a large orange cone to aim at...  n1 Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2015, 12:29:35 AM »
Since I now have access to the trophy again, the winners list:

14x David Fitzgerald
9x Ted Fancher
5x Paul Walker
4x some random idiot
2x Bob Whitely
1x Chris Cox
1x Gid Adkisson
1x Bob Baron

  out of 37 contests (1978-2015, with no contest in 1991). David has the most wins in a row (6). Paul has won over the largest time span- first win in 1979, latest in 2012.

   Many years, including this one, had many NATs and World Champions in attendance, and in many cases, a legitimate Top 5 or so comparable to a NATs. Like this year, we were only missing Kaz for a possible repeat of the NATs. This year was not an outlier. I recall a contest where we had all the champions stand up and we had 8 or 9 of them, and I felt like a real slacker for only having the one.

     We have also had more entries than the NATs on a few occasions. I think I counted 68 entries among about 55 individuals one year, and that might not have been the most. This year was off for one reason or another, and I think it was around 45 individuals between all the events. This amounts to a West Coast NATs, as David put it, and it does tend to serve the purpose of providing a big-time contest for the  people  that cannot take the 2 weeks it takes to get to and fly in Muncie. Only the Northwest Regionals is comparable.

      Brett

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2015, 07:34:25 AM »
Were the winds comparable to the wind on top 20 day this year?
Steve

Offline Heman Lee

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2015, 09:09:11 AM »

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2015, 09:55:32 AM »
Were the winds comparable to the wind on top 20 day this year?

    It was less than that, I think. Certainly the sustained winds were less - Wunderground Madera Airport says it grew from zero to 13 mph sustained nice and smoothly, then started cycling between about 8 and 15 the rest of the day and that felt about right. I don't dispute what Brian's Dwyer meter said, but I got about 12-13 at times on my Dwyer. It was brisk but far from unflyable.  You *did* have to make some accommodations for it or have really fast hands. I think it peaked out briefly during Paul's second flight, and was still going when I started my flight about 15 minutes later, and was dropping as I got towards the end of my flight.

  But hard to tell, because there are no soybean fields around here, so I can't look for the waves blowing across.

   I would note that Top 20 day (2015) wasn't remotely the most difficult air we had flown in. On Circle 4, as Paul put it, it was "scoring weather" - very stiff but very smooth. Circle 3 was a bit more challenging due to the moderate turbulence. The speeds were in the low 20's, which is approaching the limit, but OK.   Actually, at points during Classic (2015) it was worse than on Friday, like when Billy flew, but it backed of a bit after that.

    Top 20 day (2003) was *far* worse both for speed and turbulence, and at the worst, essentially unflyable. When Gieseke and I flew, nothing short of combat speed would have solved it, and the wings would have pulled off or the lines or control system would have failed if I had gone much faster. We both also had the "load up going into the wind" problem, which made it worse.

    Wednesday qualifying (2004) was also very difficult, and for those on Circle 4, with the giant circus tent directly upwind, was probably the worst I have ever seen, even though I mercifully didn't have to fly over there. I didn't have any real picnic over on Circle 1, but we were making it, even though WC from-three-days-ago Billy just barely managed to hang on. That was the day that got cancelled, but Thursday wasn't a lot better.

   Brett

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2015, 11:05:47 AM »

Brett - not sure what Brian was up to the vertical 8s, but it sounds like what I was doing wrong at Napa with the Olympic. Both you and David said I was putting a hook into the intersection, then losing it in the upper loop. This may be worth a separate article or at least a thread here on how to avoid the ten most deadly wind sins.

     If anything, you want to make the body angle of the airplane appear to "x" the intersection on the way up, and "s" it on the way down. The key is realizing that with a significant wind component, the airplane does not necessarily aim in the direction it is traveling. If you are flying in a 20 mph wind with a 55 mph airplane, this can be a big angle, easily visible. If you let the airplane get "level" on the way up through the intersection, it's actually travelling downhill. To fly level through the intersection on the way up, it has to be aimed with the nose "up" towards the top of the circle. Same all the way through the top loop, the nose has to be baised towards the top of the circle. That requires switching handle pressure earlier than normal, and a very rapid change on the way down towards the intersection. Done correctly, the airplane travels the same path it it normally should, but the stick pressure is wildly different.

   In other maneuvers, it's not necessarily about making them larger, it's about anticipating the controls more. You can't count on waiting until the last second and jamming it hard over to make a square corner, you have to start sooner in anticipation of it opening up the corner, or travelling further in the time it takes you to move the controls.

    Brett


  

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2015, 12:31:43 PM »
Thanks Brett, nobody has explained it to me like that before. I will enter it into the computer between the ears. Kinda analogous to full-scale flying when trying to make a specific track across the ground while drifting with the wind.

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2015, 12:24:37 PM »
Mike,
Exactly. Brett explains it well.
Chris...

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2015, 04:27:47 PM »
Were the winds comparable to the wind on top 20 day this year?

Wind when I flew at Madera was maybe about the same as Nats wind during my Friday flights this year.  Wind at Madera was much smoother than wind at circle 3 at the Nats.  Muncie wind is usually pretty smooth, but Friday on circle 3 was kinda lumpy.  Wind Sunday in Madera was amazingly smooth.   My airplane was in better trim in Madera, and that also made the wind less troublesome. 
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Golden State Contest results info /pics?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2015, 04:54:02 PM »
Wind when I flew at Madera was maybe about the same as Nats wind during my Friday flights this year.  Wind at Madera was much smoother than wind at circle 3 at the Nats.  Muncie wind is usually pretty smooth, but Friday on circle 3 was kinda lumpy.  Wind Sunday in Madera was amazingly smooth.   My airplane was in better trim in Madera, and that also made the wind less troublesome. 

 Maybe I am wrong about the speeds, but it was certainly easier in Madera than it was at the NATs and the air was remarkably smooth, both days. I did a fair number of practice flights on Saturday mid-afternoon and never once was I concerned about making it through or having an unexpected effect.

   From the direction and amazing smoothness, I am pretty sure we could have handled even higher speeds without much of a problem.

     Brett


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