Control Line "Popularity"

[Clancy Arnold]

I was just looking on "RC Groups - Control Line" and reviewed a thread "Control Line seems extremely Unpopular".

It has been up for 215 days and has had 118 responses and 5,080 views.

Sure sound like it is unpopular.  LOL

Clancy

[Paul Taylor]

Clancy,
Do you have a link?

[Mike Palko]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750454

[Larry Cunningham]

Unfortunately, the fact remains that there are more RC fliers in New Jersey than
CL Stunt fliers on the entire planet. (I read that somewhere.)

However, who cares? Popularity is not a proper measure of quality of an experience.

L.

"Does living take a lot of your time?" -Loesje

[Randy Powell]

It's popular at my house.

[Jim Thomerson]

There are more __________ flying RC than there are people who fly CL. Fill in the blank with whatever bad word you want.  I've never had an RC flier argue with the statement. 

[Stan Bidowski]

R/C flying is also extremely unpopular.  How many kids in your neighborhood give
a hoot about any type of model airplane?      
The whole deal about R/C being 'superior', or 'moving up' to R/C is garbage ,
and 'snobbish' .  Do people go up to people fishing and ask why don't you
use dynamite and a big net?  Do they walk up to archery fans and ask why don't
you use, or 'move up' to a machine gun??  Do these same people go to a riding
stable and ask why do some still ride horses when buying a bicycle can be cheap?
I'm sure most would look at these people as idiots.  I do not hate R/C.  I fly R/C too,
as well as F/F and C/L.  They are all means to enjoy aviation.   I enjoy the hobby
and sport of model aviation.  I do not delve into the hobby to be a foolish snob,
and respect all aspects of it, and admire achievement in all aspects of it.


Stan Bidowski

[dankar]

Stan,
I agree and also Fly UC/RC/FF. There is so much available. Hey I fly what suites me and have fun. You just can not ignore what electric RC has to offer.
Dan

[Dennis Adamisin]

I spent a good part of yesterday mowing my lawn.  All of my neighbors do their's too.  Can't say that makes it "popular!"

To put a slightly different spin on what Stan said; a very long time ago, an RC Flyer rankled my Dad when he told him "there's kites, then CL, then RC."  That was about 30 years ago, when CL and FF were in their "death throes."  Kind of ironic that RC is now the entry level for aeromodeling.  People then "move up" to CL & FF, or in Shultzie's case he "moved up" from CL to Kites!    The point is that "moving up" (if its that) is in the eyes of the beholder, each activity has its own charm & appeal.

One of the fastest growing areas of RC is "park flyers".  The electric motors eliminate that bain of most beginners - getting the engine to run.  Park flyers also fly close in - everybody has a park or school yard not too far away.  CL are natural "park flyers", and electric CL park flyers are a lode waiting to get mined.

Like many others I fly CL & RC.  One distinction I noticed among RC flyers was the difference betwen sport flyers and competition flyers.  If you track the numbers of RC CL and FF competition flyers, or track entries at the NATs, the numbers are not that different.  i.e, competition is not that "popular".  I think one of the problems AMA has been dealing with is that at its roots, AMA governs competitions, but the VAST majority of aeromodelers are no longer competition oriented.  With the appearance of park flyers at your local WalMart, its possible that the majority of participants are no longer AMA oriented either!

Popular or not, I gotta get off the PC for awhile and go finish building my new bird...!

[Steven Kientz]

The club I belong to had a static display at a home improvement store yesterday. With my work hours I hardly go to meetings(430 Am work). Knowing that I am the ONLY C/L member they have you would of thought someone would have at least called. I guess they didn't want my built models to overshadow their ARFs!! I did go to their display, saw 5 people walk up to look and ask questions. The only person they talked to was a gentleman looking to get rid of his fathers obsolete radio equipment. It is sad but very few of these guys even know who J. Sheeks is,and most have flown since the 60s, in Indianapolis.
In our last newsletter it was mentioned that the local state prison had a group of soon to be released residents that wanted to build a trainer to give to our club(our R/C fliers fly trainers every week with them). The member who leads this program told the inmates that building a trainer was beyond his skills. When was the last time a C/L flier said that? Age 10?
Sorry to have ranted and raved so long, I guess I should look at joining the Skyliners(J.Sheeks & Clancy Arnold club). I could learn more in 1 BS session than 10 years with my present club( only 2 members that will even launch for me, one is a long time family friend, the other is nuts about anything that flies).
Oh by the way,I have been to Clancy Arnolds house and his C/L F-18 would have been the talk of their display.
Steve

[posthole_digger]

I have been flying CL since 1949. I have flown RC since about 1958 and FF Rubber since about 1962. If I mention FF or UC to any of my RC friends, they could care less and certainly do not rag on UC. If I mention RC to a UC group, they start to get hot under the collar. What is it? Insecurity?

The only RC guys that rant on UC are a few on the forums who know what buttons to push - and they always get the desired response. As far as RC and FF guys not being able to build, you've got your head in the sand!

All aspects of this hobby are fine with me. It is these type of threads that make me upset. Can't you be just proud of your aspect of the hobby - there is certainly a lot to be proud about!

Paul

[Leo Mehl]

I was just looking on "RC Groups - Control Line" and reviewed a thread "Control Line seems extremely Unpopular".

It has been up for 215 days and has had 118 responses and 5,080 views.

Sure sound like it is unpopular.  LOL

Clancy

Who Cares. as in the 60's the RC guts always thought they were the best modelers in the world. Most of them were stuck up and wouldn't talk to the controline guys and as a mater of fact none of them knew how to run a trotled engine properly. Also most of them would not even try to fly control line. I can remember when the Nationals were all controline. with a few experimenters in RC.It was basicly controline guys that paved the way to RC. Now we are an outcast?

[Steven Kientz]

i don't have an "issue" with R/C fliers as a group,just the ones who don't respect the other SIGs. I ALWAYS carry a FF to the field with me. Somedays there is noone to launch for me,so I fly FF. My mentor has flown R/C for 30+ years(pattern, helis, pylon, etc.), he originally flew C/L combat in the '60s. He is a true patron of our hobby. Most of the other members of our club don't give a rats &*%$ about anything but their little piece of the pie. I can assure you most have never been to the AMA hdqrt. in Muncie(1.5 hour trip).
One of our members CD a contest "triathalon". basically a R/c fun fly, C/L ( most loops in 60 seconds) and rubber powered FF(duration).Most of the R/C guys flew that only, even after I offered my only plane to them. No one offered to put me on a buddy box and at least let me try a couple of the easier manuevers( we have two club owned trainers). it all boils down to if it isn't R/C this particular group is not interested.
I hope this is not the norm, but it is my experience.
Steve

[rob biddle]

  It's oddly familiar over here, I had some similar experiences with the local r/c club when I was a kid.
I liked the idea of flying on a field that was covered by insurance. Out here if you don't have written permission to fly on a field such as a soccer or football/ cricket oval you are not covered by MAAA insurance. The problems arise when you ask as the answer is invariably no.

 Anyway, after joining the club as a junior member I was constantly hounded by many of the other members to get a 46 size arf trainer and learn to fly r/c. It was like they felt they had to take pity on me because I wanted to fly c/l and it was somehow their duty to make me see the light.

 It got to the point where it was downright annoying as all I wanted from life at age 16 was to learn the pattern. The older guys in the club were quite supportive as they grew up with c/l and moved to r/c scale in the late 60's. They were true aeromodellers.

 The guys with the real attitude problem came to r/c middle aged and learnt to fly on arfs.They had never built models as kids and have never been inspired to do so.

 After a few months of general ribbing and b/s I quit the club and went back to flying on my own.
A few years ago we met up with some local blokes that are strictly c/l flyers, on a good day we can get up to 7-8 of us flying together, guzzling coffee and talking bull. Certainly makes the persistance pay off.

 Cheers, Rob.

[Dennis Moritz]

There's enough of us (at the moment) to keep it going. So.

[50+AirYears]

Actually, as a responder on the referenced post, the original comment was that the poster has put a number of videos on Youtube, and the CL videos don't get a lot of hits.

Personally, I fly RC, CL, FF, Kites, Model Rockets, and have even thrown a few Boomerangs.  Love them all.  I started with FF around 1948 - 49, moved into CL about 1950, and RC about 1962.  Note, I said moved into, not up to.  I still fly all of them when I have the opportunity.

The RCers' viewpoint of CL depends on who you're talking to.  In the RC club I'm in, the attitudes range from "Why would anybody bother?" to "Let's see if the land owner will let us free up a circle!"

I remember at an FAC contest some years ago, one of the club members was giving some very candid and scathing comments about RCers and how many fields they've caused to be lost for flying.  Of course, I remember when the only park flying was either things like Jim Walker Hornets, Intercepters, Ceiling Hoppers, and 74 gliders, or Control Liners.  Now there is only some electric RC in our town, or me occassionally flinging a Thermic 18 HLG or some such thing.

I'm not an RC flyer, I'm a Model Aircraft Flyer, and proud of it.

BTW, our RC club has over it's 50 years existance, put on many public demonstrations and mall shows which included RC, CL, and FF. In fact, at one mall show, we actually had a problem deciding between an RC Scale job, and a CL F9F-6 as best of show.  Since we were an RC club, we ended up giving the RC plane the best of show, and made up a Special Achievement award for the Panther.  Both planes were, at least to us, world class jobs. 

At our annual flying show for the public, one of the special treats was a former club president putting on a show with his OS .40 powered Nobler.  We have also handed out AMA Dats to kids who attended the shows, and even had at least one show-and-tell at a local school where we helped kids assemble the Darts.

[Dave Nyce]

Larry Cunningham:  Is your Gene Wilder photo from Young Frankenstein?

Dave

[Terry Bolin]

Though not as popular as RC, (by sheer numbers) I think CL takes more talent. The best "builders" as I see it are always in CL, They are always striving for a better-Straighter model. (we had this discussion at our field) Most of the RC fliers that I am around have the "Close enough" Method of building and it shows or lack the talent of building at all! I find it alarming the  lack of intrest by our young people. Most younger people want the "Right now" everything and missed the magic of building something from flat wood and it actually Flies. Plus they miss the skill that comes from building models that crosses over to every thing else in life as far as, I can fix that! (Around the house and so on)....Okay , That's my two cents worth.
Terry

[50+AirYears]

My CL experience for building, finishing, and engine handling and repairs, and my FF experience for flight trimming.  Have helped a few club instructors trim out newbies planes using principals of flight often not understood or appreciated by pure RC flyers.

Still, there's room for everybody in Model Aviation.

A good builder or a good flyer is going to stand out in his group wether FF, CL or RC.

[Doug Moon]

I cant take it anymore!  The attitude that RC guys cant build is not good and devisive, and not true.

Many of the mid and top level of RC fliers can and do build their own planes.  In fact they can build circles around just about anyone.  Dont believe me?  Do a search for Top Gun 2008.  Or go here,
http://gizmodo.com/382748/top-gun-2008-biggest-rc-airplane-competition-in-the-world 
get you a little taste of the models at that event.  You dont buy those off the shelf.  You build them and they are alot more intricate and complicated than any Line Control Plane out there.  They have more intricate and complicated control systems in their landing gear alone, with running lights, than we do in out entire control system that actually flies the plane!  125 entries, top scale event world wide equal to our CLPA Nats.  Estimated 10,000 spectators went to that event.  YES 10,000!  There is so much that goes into these models and rules require they build them.

Dont get me wrong CLPA is my "THING"  It gets me going more so than anything out there in model aviation.  It will always be what I do, I can barely fly an RC plane, let alone land one.  I am surely not going to say I can build better than RC guys because I can build and fly a top level CLPA plane and put on a 17 point finsh.  It is pointless to do so and isnt true.

Yes the top CLPA guys can and do build very well, maybe some of the best out there.  But comparing our top models to the joe blow ARF guy who comes by once a month is not fair.  Compare apples to apples and you see similar building techniques.

Also why is it that RC people dont know anything about aerodynamics.  I know some but not much.  I can fly and trim pretty good.  And I could do so long before I knew squat about how an airfoil actually produced lift.  Anyway, I read RC sportflyer magazine due to the superior content and there is always at least two full color articles in there about airfoil design and or aerodynamics.  And more about design and construction.  EVERY TIME.  If people werent interested and didnt care it wouldnt sell.

Please, stop saying that RC people cant build.  Remember there are over 100K of them out there in the AMA and I bet there is a larger portion that can build very well then there are all of CL flyers/builders combined.

Sorry I had to rant.

[SteveMoon]

Thank you Doug. I was considering posting something similar, but
hadn't gotten around to it. I've been to plenty of RC events and
to say they can't build is total dumbassery!! I've seen guys with
more into their retract systems than an entire top notch competition
CL stunt plane. And, I'm not talking about just the top level Top Gun
guys. I'm talking about local guys like my buddy John Grigsby and
Kyle Tankersley.

I thoroughly enjoy CLPA, but this constant carping about how 'superior'
stunt guys are at building or trimming or whatever is wearing me out.
Who f-ing care? It is meaningless. Do your thing and enjoy it and
don't worry about the other guy!

Later, Steve

[John KruziK]

Just because something is popular doesn't make it good! People are like sheep they follow other's around. Look at popular music most of it isn't good, but it's popular Thanks John

[Michael Floerchinger]

When I returned to model airplane flying I tried RC, My son worked at Schaefer’s hobby and was heavily into RC. He taught me how to fly and I did enjoy it but there was something missing. It was the actual physical control of the airplane, there was feedback coming back thru the lines so while flying I did not have to rely on SIGHT and SOUND only, I could also feel what the model was doing thru the lines. Once I had my comeback stunter done and flew it for the first time I never flew RC again, I could achieve the same thing with a flight simulator on the computer.

The other thing I noticed flying RC was that there really was not that much flying going on, there was more talk than flying. Just the opposite in the circles at Buder Park, we flew one right after the other, it was about practice, tuning our ships, helping each other out, there seemed to be more camaraderie among the Control Line fliers than the RC guys.

Mike

[Doug Moon]

When I returned to model airplane flying I tried RC, My son worked at Schaefer’s hobby and was heavily into RC. He taught me how to fly and I did enjoy it but there was something missing. It was the actual physical control of the airplane, there was feedback coming back thru the lines so while flying I did not have to rely on SIGHT and SOUND only, I could also feel what the model was doing thru the lines. Once I had my comeback stunter done and flew it for the first time I never flew RC again, I could achieve the same thing with a flight simulator on the computer.

The other thing I noticed flying RC was that there really was not that much flying going on, there was more talk than flying. Just the opposite in the circles at Buder Park, we flew one right after the other, it was about practice, tuning our ships, helping each other out, there seemed to be more camaraderie among the Control Line fliers than the RC guys.

Mike

Mike,

I find the same things to be true.  I was visting RC fields all over Dallas for a while, I used to drive all over the metroplex for work, and I always noticed alot of sitting around and little flying.  I would sit there in amazement, I would stop to see some flying and didnt ever see much. Somone has the time to go to the field and then not fly...odd.  But I saw this many times in different cities. I go to fly and talking and hanging out happens at the same time while others are flying but we get in a line and knock out flights one right after the other.  There were a couple of guys at the north Dallas field who were always in the air of they were there.  I saw them flying many times.  They never sat around one or the other was always in the air.  But the others were always just hanging out. 

I also found that when I tried RC I was not connected to the plane, NO FEEL.  I like the CL feedback.  I saw a sign once said real men hold onto their planes.  I thought that was funny.

I have tried RC gliders and I love them.  For some reason I can "feel" them better than I can a powered RC plane.  Something about all that flying with no power.  It is just cool.

[Dave Adamisin]

Hi guys. I'll quote from Harry Roe: "People who fly rc are people who couldn't hack it in U-CONTROL". For those of you who don't know of Mr. Roe, he was a force of nature from Dayton, OH who flew everything from c/l speed to stunt, combat ,rat race, yada yada. He even flew jet fighters for the National Guard. When you spoke to Harry you looked him in the eye.

[dave siegler]

If you look for it, there is difficult and excellence in all activity, whether that be RC, CL, Rockets, bicycles or golf. 

There are a lot of people who like to say my XXX is better than your XXX.  (XXX could be car, harley, house, wife, boat....)  They need to feel superior to you.

If that is the reason you play with model airplanes, you are in it for the wrong reasons I think. 

I fly a little (CL, RC, FF) of everything and don't like the clubs because of the politics, and the glorified coffee drinkers that think they are fliers.

Build fly and have fun, be supportive make friends, help out when you can, but don't tell me how to have fun.

[posthole_digger]

 "People who fly rc are people who couldn't hack it in U-CONTROL".

Lets see: Harold DeBolt, Lew Andrews, Dave Geirke (sp?). etc., etc.

The attitude of the posters speaks for itself!

Paul

PS

Thre are too many good engines out there than to buy Fox!

[Ryan Cooper]

I enjoy flying CL RC and FF....I just enjoy model aviation, and some of the cool people you meet through this great hobby. You will always have the person that thinks they are better then everyone, and always trying to out do them, no matter what the hobby is. For me its all about having fun, and enjoying the hobby of model aviation. As for RC only guys saying CL line loosing popularity, I will always fly CL also no matter what.

[GEOFFREY]

for some reason our group is just getting bigger and picking up a few RC flyer  . this was tuesday with few just show ups and  only rule is bring your owen chair. Delta park circle hog

[Fred Shattuck]

Twenty five years ago I took some of the young fliers with me to see the R/C guys fly.  We had always used the C/L interest to our best advantage, teaching fairness, sportsmanship, craftmanship and safety foremost. We always policed the field, even though it was not our trash.... etc...   Geeze were we in for a surprize. Foul mouthedness and lack of consideration abounded. In Fifteen minutes we saw a mid air crash and worst of all a low buzz of the field downwind right over the head of a flier retrieving a stalled plane on the runway. We saw some of the best building you could imagine, but overall, we were so turned off we are just now even considering looking at R/C. This is because some of the nicest people I've met do it. What a paradox. I simply enjoy what I do and appreciate help from anybody, especially from those that display the aforementioned qualities. We all can identify with skill, passion, craftsmanship and sportsmanship.     MY two cents worth.   FRED

[posthole_digger]

Fred Shattuck

This is the biggest BS I've ever seen.

[Bryan Higgins]

I fly RC and CL .  Lately seeing all the arf planes and cheap crapp for sale......
I decided to go back to Control Line and build some beautiful hand built
airplanes. 

I really like the feeling i get when i build a kit and finish it off with a killer
paint job.  The icing on the cake is flying it at the field. 

I hope the Popularity increases and the Balsa!!!         Bryan


                                                                                 

[john e. holliday]

Twenty five years ago I took some of the young fliers with me to see the R/C guys fly.  We had always used the C/L interest to our best advantage, teaching fairness, sportsmanship, craftmanship and safety foremost. We always policed the field, even though it was not our trash.... etc...   Geeze were we in for a surprize. Foul mouthedness and lack of consideration abounded. In Fifteen minutes we saw a mid air crash and worst of all a low buzz of the field downwind right over the head of a flier retrieving a stalled plane on the runway. We saw some of the best building you could imagine, but overall, we were so turned off we are just now even considering looking at R/C. This is because some of the nicest people I've met do it. What a paradox. I simply enjoy what I do and appreciate help from anybody, especially from those that display the aforementioned qualities. We all can identify with skill, passion, craftsmanship and sportsmanship.     MY two cents worth.   FRED

Fred,  I myself still dabble in R/C some.  Still have kits that may get built when the shop is done.  But, all R/C fields are not like that.  Anybody that buzzes the field while someone is retrieving a plane is immediately scolded.  Myself and several others are not afraid to chide someone for unsafe practices.   All facets of modeling is great.  DOC Holliday

[Gary Anderson]

Hi guys,

  I guess I'm lucky, most RC fliers I have talked to, say they used to fly control line. Its a common interest, flying toys. Several have made a statement that they still have a control line plane or engines at home. Its fun talking about all the different type toys. I have used a lot of the RC ideas in my toys. If someone is not nice about what you do, they probably didn't do well with control line. Have a nice day and keep them in the air, Gary

[Steven Kientz]

Notice the same thing where I work, mgmt calls them "forklift drivers" I consider myself an "operator". Although alot of the people don't do much more than drive them anyhow. I guess that what happens when you learn a trade in the armed forces vs. "civilian" life.