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Author Topic: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition  (Read 13450 times)

Offline kevin king

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Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« on: November 28, 2020, 11:22:32 PM »

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2020, 12:19:38 AM »
http://www.foxmodelmotors.com/

   It would be very tempting to offer some suggestions on that, but past experience suggests it would not be well-received.

      Brett

Offline kevin king

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2020, 04:45:19 AM »
LOL Brett..😆

Offline mccoy40

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 06:07:20 AM »
Yay!!

 #^
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA

Offline Dwayne Donnelly

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 06:15:45 AM »
It's been saying that for awhile now, hopefully they follow through.
My purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2020, 06:28:30 AM »
                 Some of the products have been saying that for 20 years and they're still coming soon. In addition to the upcoming news, I find it hard to believe there would be a market for a antiquated engine. The last 60th anniversary was retailing near $100. If you traded in a engine of any type, size , condition, Fox offered that engine to you for $59.99. Duke's nephew in charge at the time was going to make another run provided he could ascertain 50 orders. This never came to fruition and the idea was dropped. He made it clear that in order to follow through, the engines would have to sell for $100. He was very skeptical in regards to this in that who is going to buy them. At that time, one could purchase a LA .46 for less $$$$ than that.

            Fast forward to today, who is going to buy a new Fox other than some demented user like myself? It seems like one has long missed the boat on the opportunity to sell them and make some profit on it. Fox at least offered a glow plug with the engine and Mecoa states that they won't offer plugs on engines due to the  gazzilion dollar rhodium costs. So if Fox was going to sell this engine for $100 back then, one would have to wonder what Mecoa is willing to offer them at. Based on the price list of parts they offer,  it's going to be quite out of reach considering the piece of crap needle valve assembly is nearing $30. The rod that looks like it was produced by a caveman is $22. Here's 2 parts and were not even a portion of the way there.

         One would be far better off by buying a decent Fox, purchasing Brian Gardener piston liner and having a Fox that runs well and starts even easier.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 07:16:24 AM by kenneth cook »

Offline BillP

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2020, 07:15:50 AM »
                 Some of the products have been saying that for 20 years and they're still coming soon

+1
I'd say it's closer to 30 yrs.
Bill P.

Offline Brad LaPointe

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2020, 08:08:00 AM »
Mr. Cook you make a very good argument for a new Brodak .40 . Or a LA or an Enya .30 .

Brad

Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2020, 12:37:10 PM »
I'd buy one for my collection ... probably never would run it and wouldn't care!!  It certainly would be a great conversation piece like my OS 60 GSA-1 and GSA-2.  At least this would become something that very few folks would have in their collections and from some of the posts wouldn't want and that's all right too!!  Back in the day, I've spent and wasted more money getting drunk and puking it up.  At least I'd have something I can set beside the other Fox engines in my collection!!   ;D LL~ LL~

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2020, 01:18:22 PM »
Hello. I'm sure Randy/MECOA could make and sell a Fox 35 but it would be brought by engine collectors and would need nice packaging and perhaps a few anodized pieces to look special. Going off current trends I'd bet there are more engine collectors out there then active stunt flyers .
The control line stunt community would most likely buy a new design that is a 36-80 size light weight rear exhaust engine that is not a second hand, side exhaust LA46 or FP40 . It would probably cost so much many would go electric or buy a second hand E-bay or C/L forum engine instead.

When I was an agent for Fox engines back in the early 1990's most people brought the 35's and the light weight 40's or parts but back then the cheap Chinese engines killed it along with all those cheap but excellent O.S. FP 25's and 40's.
Now the Chinese are no longer producing engines and Enya and OS have stopped making suitable engines (only SH engines from Taiwan seems to show promise) there might be a small market for specialist engines that may grow that only the Ukraine and Russia manufactures seem to touch (not including the reworks from Brain Gardener and others).
If you are going to bring back the Fox 35 stunt why not bring back the Fox 59 Stunt , Fox 59 Long Shaft or Fox 36X Combat for the 'collectors'.

Regards Gerald

Offline Steve Lotz

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2020, 01:26:26 PM »
The Fox 35 by MECOA will come out at the same time as the Johnson 35 by MECOA. Have your grandchildren place their orders now!

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2020, 02:21:04 PM »
Update it to a .46, PA needle assembly, call it an OS .46 LA-S.  Then it will sell... LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

MECOA already produces a 46.  From what I heard, the timing is not suitable for stunt use.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2020, 02:27:25 PM »
Along with the promised Atwood Shriek and Holland Hornet.   R%%%%

Regarding the Fox, at least he should do the ABC or Ceramic versions and correct the bypass volume problem. Then it might be worth buying, especially with a decent conrod. Modified they are great, lightweight sport engines. At least cold, they are easy enough to start, and the ceramic and ABC don’t need the high Castor contact.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2020, 06:44:17 PM »

 I'm not going to get excited until I see the new ad in Flying Models.  D>K


Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2020, 06:54:52 PM »
I'm not going to get excited until I see the new ad in Flying Models.  D>K


 H^^ LL~  H^^  Steve
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Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2020, 07:02:28 PM »
I'm waiting for the electrified version....

Brett: say it!  say it!!

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2020, 07:14:23 PM »
LOL Brett..😆

  It's less funny than you think. A group of the Fox factory people, including Betty, did a promotional tour including the Northwest regionals, and asked several experts to evaluate their 60-sized stunt engine. They wanted to do it on Friday, didn't have any takers. Finally Paul Walker does it after the contest. He evaluates the engine and gave them some suggestions. They just argued with him. I think this is the ceramic 60 which they later claimed "tore the wings off the airplane" it was so powerful, they were going to "throw the handle at the airplane to save the engine" (??) but it "flew anyway" -  in as bizarre an ad copy as I have ever seen.

   There was never a reason that Fox could not have been competitive with other sport/beginner stunt engines, but they were always a day late, and the "improvements" they made mostly consisted of writing ridiculous advertising claims and slapping more American flags on the box. Only after *40 years* of being obviously behind the times did they fix the thing so you could safely put a muffler on it, and they supply a muffler that absolutely everyone will immediately toss. The needle/spraybar from 1972 needed *one* change to make it nearly ideal, and it would have been trivially easy (drill the seat 1/8" deeper and make the threads 1/8" longer), it has been burping violently or quitting on profiles since 1947, and most of the rest of it could be solved by relatively simple QA changes.

     Brett

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2020, 07:26:14 PM »
Quote
I think this is the ceramic 60

Oh dear.

I saw one in a hobby shop and maybe a few advertisements and that was it.  I just couldn't understand why, at the time it came out, they didn't pay someone like Paul Walker to campaign the thing to give it some street cred in the control line community.  Sad.

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2020, 07:30:12 PM »
I'm waiting for the electrified version....

Perhaps an outrunner mount that looks like a Fox crankcase and cylinder with nose replaced by an outrunner motor? (See Nilly Willie photo) ;D

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2020, 07:39:04 PM »
Quote
Perhaps an outrunner mount that looks like a Fox crankcase and cylinder with nose replaced by an outrunner motor? (See Nilly Willie photo) ;D

Betcha it doesn't burp on the outside corners...

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2020, 10:56:42 PM »
Betcha it doesn't burp on the outside corners...

May be not but it might qualify for the Fox Hurl. S?P

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2020, 12:09:57 AM »
Oh dear.

I saw one in a hobby shop and maybe a few advertisements and that was it.  I just couldn't understand why, at the time it came out, they didn't pay someone like Paul Walker to campaign the thing to give it some street cred in the control line community.  Sad.

   That's just it - you drive all the way from Fort Smith to Eugene, get the most technically capable, not to mention most successful, multi-time national champion, world champion, to evaluate your engine and airplane - and you argue with him and tell him he is wrong?  No offense, but how does that work again?

   They made several engines that had some potential - like the rear-exhaust 36 based on the RAF engine, that was around and could have made a decent niche engine to compete with early tuned pipe engines like the OPS, but no, they knew better. They finally tried to fix the 35 needle valve, and came up with the side-saddle thing that absolutely everyone tossed immediately, wouldn't fit in any full-fuse airplane and breaks off on the first light inverted crash. They went back to the "full taper" needle that were all off-center due to machining issues, but also hangs from the notoriously sloppy threads and is even more prone to leaks than the 60's version. I had to cut the knob off the parts I got, set up my drill press and little grinder my dad made me when I was 8, and regrind it like I was using a tool-post grinder. That's a long weekend taking $8 factory-fresh parts and reworking them to fit correctly. I am still figuring out what to do about the sloppy threads - maybe braze up the existing threads, and then find someone with a lathe to single-point them to a higher-class fit?  It's nuts, and should be completely unnecessary.

   I have probably flown more patterns with a Fox 35 than I have RO-Jett and it's probably even-up with the 40VF. It was very frustrating to see the same old problems endlessly. I didn't know for sure how to fix them at the time, and any success I had came as the price of endless experimentation and stumbling on a system that worked, eventually. But then again, I am not a factory engine expert, they are, and failing to acknowledge there is any problem at all and utterly ignoring everything new development for, say, 60ish years now, that just seems like bull-headedness to me.

   I don't know what Mecoa is going to do - if anything, I suspect  they will make whatever parts they are missing, scratch "75" where it says "60", and then put out the same old thing until they use up most of the stock on hand.
   
    Brett

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2020, 06:27:12 AM »
Quote
I don't know what Mecoa is going to do

Well, first they gotta sell all those Johnson Stunt 35s and Holland Hornets..... ;D

I think they'd have a better market for a Fox 15, certainly you guys have gotten to the level where you are throwing them so far as to lose them and now need replacements...

Offline John Park

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2020, 06:52:00 AM »
I thought this might amuse - you can see the impact it had on British aeromodellers back then (this engine test is from the 1950 'AeroModeller' Annual).  The only trouble in those days was that you couldn't get one for love nor money on this side of the Atlantic!
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Offline Dwayne Donnelly

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2020, 07:09:28 AM »
I thought this might amuse - you can see the impact it had on British aeromodellers back then (this engine test is from the 1950 'AeroModeller' Annual).  The only trouble in those days was that you couldn't get one for love nor money on this side of the Atlantic!

Up to 18,000 rpm, happier above 10,000 rpm? What engine is this?
My purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

Offline John Park

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2020, 07:22:38 AM »
Up to 18,000 rpm, happier above 10,000 rpm? What engine is this?
According to AeroModeller, Fox's specified fuel for the 35 was: "Castor Oil 33%, Mehanol 25%, Nitro Methane 42%"!  I don't think it was quite regarded as a stunt engine in Britain in those days - more like F/F Open Power.
The quoted price, by the way, was $11.95. 
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline BillP

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2020, 08:28:03 AM »
I would buy one in a heartbeat if they corrected the burp. Otherwise the flat and tapered needles are ok (for me anyway) after adding a piece of fuel line to seal and hold steady. MECOA might be better off making hemi kits instead of a a new 35.  They go for big bucks on auction.
Bill P.

Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2020, 09:12:59 AM »
I am very fortunate to obtain the 65th Anniv version witg hemi/ stuffer, reworked by Lew Woolard just before he passed. I bought it new from him. Have not yet decided what airplane will be matched with it. Most likely a Smoothie.
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2020, 09:53:38 AM »
According to AeroModeller, Fox's specified fuel for the 35 was: "Castor Oil 33%, Mehanol 25%, Nitro Methane 42%"!  I don't think it was quite regarded as a stunt engine in Britain in those days - more like F/F Open Power.
The quoted price, by the way, was $11.95.

     "Run in at 4000 rpm for an hour"!   That does *nearly nothing*, even if you properly heat-cycle it for an hour, that's not nearly enough.

   BTW, if you run it on that mixture at 18,000 rpm, 7-second FF runs are what you should expect, don't even need a timer. And, don't stand in front of it, or to the side of it.

   But, don't forget that 1948 was A LONG TIME AGO, and the Fox was a reasonably strong engine in it's day; in particular, the British were running various extremely rudimentary diesels, and something like the original sand cast Fox was probably at least as sophisticated and well-made as any other engine of the day. It wasn't, compared to some contemporary US engines, but as far as performance goes it was at least a match. The difference is that the British were in just about as bad a shape as the defeated Axis countries, and some things were still being rationed into the mid-50's. You can take one look at, say, and Anderson Spitfire and see that these were the same people making sophisticated military devices a few years earlier.

    The problem is that, after Bob Palmer and later George Aldrich found the formula for precision stunt, it was highly competitive for the next 9-10 years. But they never acknowledged that it had been superseded when various people started building bigger/better airplanes. At great effort and skill Gieseke kept going for a while before even his skills were insufficient to make it competitive. Here's a general rule that will serve you well in stunt - if Bear couldn't do something, the rest of us don't have a chance.

  Now. even low-ball engines nearly half the size and built to a $50 price point can beat the snot out of it, if you know what you are doing. That's not surprising, despite what anyone's delusions might hold, stunt performance has changed dramatically in all areas over the last 60 years or so. The fact that this is still a controversial statement, and someone will likely answer,  "well, if you know what you are doing you could still win any contest, but the judges ....", tells you what the problem is.

     Brett

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2020, 10:25:35 AM »
I hate to burst your bubble, but Paul W. doesn't live in Eugene. I wish he did, because I could get some quality coaching.

In defense of MECOA, in spite of all the negatives I'm reading here, I have bought a couple new engines from MECOA.  Their quality and fit is second to none.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2020, 10:44:56 AM »
I hate to burst your bubble, but Paul W. doesn't live in Eugene. I wish he did, because I could get some quality coaching.

   Where were the Northwest Regionals traditionally held, Floyd?

    For those NOT going out of their way to be contrary, and those from the rest of the country, said evaluation was held at the traditional site for the Northwest Regionals, the overflow parking lot for the Eugene, Oregon airport.

Quote
In defense of MECOA, in spite of all the negatives I'm reading here, I have bought a couple new engines from MECOA.  Their quality and fit is second to none.

   Well, if they have it in stock, there is generally no problem. The issue is the advertising of things that they don't actually have, with disclaimers in tiny print saying things like "don't order this, we might make it some day" and the unusual definition of "coming soon" were "soon" is defined as "more than 15 years from now". 

    The few things I have gotten from MECOA have been OK, and I think if they make it themselves, it is probably OK. The Fox parts above were probably straight from Fort Smith, not made by MECOA. The delivery is usually pretty fast, it shows up - if they have it at all. I think it's a nearly one-man operation that has done a service to modelers by buying up all this stuff that would have gone to the junkyard otherwise, but with ambitions far beyond the available personnel.

   In any case, making stunt fliers happy has go to be near the bottom of any manufacturer's list, they might work for years to refine something, then, something better pops up, and the market evaporates overnight. That's what happened to ST60s.

     Brett

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2020, 10:52:46 AM »
I still have a Fox .35 powered "fun" ship. No, it's not a world-beater but it's fun. Flying around the burp puts a smile on your face.

I look at Fox .35's like Harley Davidsons - old school, light years behind the competitors, but still fun nonetheless.

If they make them and people buy them it's all good.

 
AMA 76478

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2020, 11:30:02 AM »
It is nice to see MECOA providing the service that they do but I don't see much of a market for making glow engines.   I was part of the good old days.  Now, I wonder if they were really that good.   Products like the Fox were all any of us had so it was good enough and we had fun in spite of the limitations of the equipment.

I have three Fox 35 50th anniversary editions.  One has never been run.  I am in no hurry to use them when I have engines like the Magnum 36 in my stash.

Electric is taking over.  And, it is not only the younger fliers who are no longer interested in tinkering with internal combustion engines.  It is so much easier these days to plug it in and go.

Offline dave siegler

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2020, 12:49:59 PM »
Kudos to MECOA, at least they are trying to make engines in the US. 

Most everyone else has given up.  I have had some good and some not good with MECOA, but they are still selling motors. 
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Offline John Park

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2020, 03:20:09 AM »
     "Run in at 4000 rpm for an hour"!   That does *nearly nothing*, even if you properly heat-cycle it for an hour, that's not nearly enough.
In those days, AeroModeller's engine guru was a man called Laurence Sparey.  He had some strange, antiquated ideas about a lot of things, especially running-in, and didn't appear to do much (if any) flying.  There was a big improvement when Ron Warring took over, which was maintained when Peter Chinn took over from him on the demise of Model Aircraft magazine.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2020, 09:39:50 AM »
In those days, AeroModeller's engine guru was a man called Laurence Sparey.  He had some strange, antiquated ideas about a lot of things, especially running-in, and didn't appear to do much (if any) flying.

   There are *a lot* of engine experts like that, unfortunately - either never fly at all, nearly raw neophytes, or feel qualified to pronounce judgement on engines for events they know nothing about. I can recall two particularly egregious examples that  appeared in Stunt News, where an individual managed to assess 5-6 engines in, apparently, one afternoon, running them strictly on the bench. Here's a hint - while you can certainly can tell something about how they run by port heights and bench running, and maybe dismiss some real outliers as "unworkable" in a few cases, you cannot really evaluate them without flying them, and flying them extensively in top expert categories over the period of months/years.

   One of the articles I mention curtly dismissed the 40VF as having "typical radio numbers" and therefore unusable for stunt - shortly after it had won 3 NATs in a row and World Championship (not to mention uncounted regional contests).

     Brett

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2020, 09:59:53 AM »
Right on, Brett.

As we used to say in R&D, “ONE TEST IS WORTH A THOUSAND EXPERT OPINIONS”.

Bob Z.

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM »
Quote
There are *a lot* of engine experts like that, unfortunately - either never fly at all, nearly raw neophytes, or feel qualified to pronounce judgement on engines for events they know nothing about.

For the health of our hobby I think it is important to be as inclusive as possible.  Our club has members who neither build nor fly, but their membership fee contribution helps keep our club afloat.  I suppose it is the same with this web-site: the extra numbers help drive the advertisement value of the site and help keep it afloat.  The challenge is that in this hobby there are more dilettantes then experts.  In fact, probably more than there are actual builders and flyers (notice I say "and" and not "or".)

Youth and adolescence seems to be the time for trying out a wide array of things to see what you like and learn where you should invest your time while on this earth.  Nibbling at the edges serves youth greatly by giving them wide (but shallow) experience.  But, I would think that as we reach maturity when we become involved in something we would give it more consideration than just a nibble.  At least to the extent of our abilities.

The frustration is when the "nibblers" present themselves as experts.  How does someone new to the hobby distinguish?  The nibblers have as much right as anyone else to express their opinion; however, many nibblers have no idea, apparently, that they are nibblers.  They don't know what they don't know.   

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2020, 10:59:55 AM »
The frustration is when the "nibblers" present themselves as experts.  How does someone new to the hobby distinguish?  The nibblers have as much right as anyone else to express their opinion; however, many nibblers have no idea, apparently, that they are nibblers.  They don't know what they don't know.

   That is precisely the problem. No one sets out to be malicious, they genuinely want to help, and think they are. But, the sad truth is that the "local engine expert" has done more to hold stunt back or inhibit people's progress than any other single phenomenon (for a lack of a better word) in the last 40 years.  And whether they mean to or not, what ends up happening is indistinguishable from preying on beginners in their desire to help.

   But it's not just that, one the idea that you should take engines apart and modify them for stunt, almost *everyone* started doing it. Any contest where I am not judging, I end up spending most of my free day listening to engine problems and helping people fix them. Even some pretty experienced modelers do some pretty silly things, looking for something complicated, when it is frequently absurdly simple. Like "my engine 'ran away' so I added some head gaskets, but it didn't help" - when the problem was a clogged needle valve, not to mention that lowering the compression frequently *causes* "runaways" instead of fixing it. It wouldn't needle on the ground, what makes you think it would fix itself in the air? That's why I am continually out of spare parts - I end up spending so much time putting "un screwed up" parts on other peoples airplanes that I run short on them. I don't begrudge it but it illustrates the scope of the problem.

   You see the same thing almost continuously on the "engine setup tips" forum, people looking for complex issues when it is simple. I got to be considered a guru several times when *all I did was put people's engine back to the way they came from the factory* - and somehow that makes me some sort of OS whisperer?  It would have worked exactly the same way *had you left the damn thing alone* in the first place! Meaning, also, that *you didn't need any sort of engine expert or "help" - the "help" you got just screwed everything up!

   The opposite happens, too, of course, people living with problems that are blatantly obvious and insisting that there is no problem. Since this started out with Fox 35s - burps. Many times, most of the time in fact, even if it quits and causes a crash, the owner insists that, variously, "that's what it is supposed to do" and how great and reliable those Fox 35s were. Or "it's a tank problem, the engine is fine", or "needed a hotter glow plug" - not the one acknowledged fix, when if done, allows you to use the same tank and glow plug that was previously deemed defective. This is exacerbated by, every once in a while, one that works unmodified, thus providing the necessary positive reinforcement that there is nothing wrong. An extremely (and deservedly) notable engine guy told me once, in the space of 3 paragraphs, that "it never does that", "it does do that, but that's how it controls the speed", and "it does do that and the fix is to route the tank vents differently".

     I don't know if there is any realistic solution to this, and it's not like we are curing cancer here, we are old men playing with model airplanes, so maybe it doesn't need a solution. But it does frustrate me greatly to see people struggle because of bad advice, or ignoring obvious problems, and never getting anywhere, when the *best equipment we have ever had in the history of the event* and the *necessary information to make full use of it* is widely available for free, usually in minutes or hours.

    Brett

 

Offline Wayne Collier

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2020, 01:13:30 PM »
 
Engine work is like sex, all men think they're good at it.


Motorman 8)

 y1 LL~ H^^
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
<><

never confuse patience with slowness never confuse motion with progress

Offline De Hill

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2020, 03:18:25 PM »
The majority of people who fly the old engines- K&B, Veco, McCoy, and Fox do so for nostalgic reasons.

People who are competitive fly the modern engines.

Neither group is right or wrong.

De Hill

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2020, 03:38:56 PM »
The majority of people who fly the old engines- K&B, Veco, McCoy, and Fox do so for nostalgic reasons.

People who are competitive fly the modern engines.

Neither group is right or wrong.

   Exactly, the problem is the guys who say "I want to fly in stunt contests, so I sent my engine to <<generic engine expert>>" - and then they get back something that is far worse than it started.

    As long as everyone knows what they are getting into, no problem. It's the people who get led down the wrong path, ending in frustration, that bothers me. Just look at the Engine Setup forum, there is virtually no discussion or activity with competitive systems, it is 98% (and I counted) trying to get reliable runs on vintage equipment, most of wasn't any good to start with, or which has been butchered to death and never have a snowball's chance of getting better, but tons of "advice" that while it may be well-meant, is *utterly ridiculous*.

    I have seen numerous cases were a stock Fox 35 would have been *far better* and "far more powerful" than the "Super Modified for Lucky Best Stunt Run" 46LA that they had.

    Brett

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2020, 06:32:19 PM »
Or avoid all that and just buy a well established electric system for competition and a Fox for nostalgia flying.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2020, 06:41:14 PM »
Quote
Or avoid all that and just buy a well established electric system for competition

But then someone will mount the battery too high or too low impeding the electron flow and the problems start all over again... :D

Offline Alan Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2020, 06:56:46 PM »
and they still have problems to but still have fun
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Peter Grabenstein

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2020, 05:28:50 AM »
It is nice to see MECOA providing the service that they do but I don't see much of a market for making glow engines.   I was part of the good old days.  Now, I wonder if they were really that good.   Products like the Fox were all any of us had so it was good enough and we had fun in spite of the limitations of the equipment.

I have three Fox 35 50th anniversary editions.  One has never been run.  I am in no hurry to use them when I have engines like the Magnum 36 in my stash.

Electric is taking over.  And, it is not only the younger fliers who are no longer interested in tinkering with internal combustion engines.  It is so much easier these days to plug it in and go.

truest words  y1  like , "comming soon" parts etc.   :)....since 15 years  mw~.
Makes no sense , because parts number is to low to turn their "switch" into "GO" .

 H^^
Peter
CL since 1970  LL~
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 05:46:16 AM by Peter Grabenstein »
I hate pessimists, I prefer optimists.
Impossible is done immediately, miracles take longer.
I don't care who your father is ......... as long as I fly here,
Nobody walks, runs, floats or flies across my circle ......... not even to fetch fish, wine or bread.

Offline Peter Grabenstein

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2020, 06:00:45 AM »
Engine work is like sex, all men think they're good at it.


Motorman 8)

Buy a (K&B) Stallion , be a Stallion .
Buy a Corvette , be a C....tte.
Buy a Ferrari , be a F....... .
"Shortys" always needs "BIGGER" toys to play with .
Very last T-Shirt has NO pockets.

 H^^
Peter
I hate pessimists, I prefer optimists.
Impossible is done immediately, miracles take longer.
I don't care who your father is ......... as long as I fly here,
Nobody walks, runs, floats or flies across my circle ......... not even to fetch fish, wine or bread.

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2020, 09:54:31 AM »
I have seen numerous cases were a stock Fox 35 would have been *far better* and "far more powerful" than the "Super Modified for Lucky Best Stunt Run" 46LA that they had.

There are similar comments on the R/C side as well. One I recall reading about not so long ago was a story on a newbie who couldn't seem to keep his fingers off the carb adjustment screws on his Fox. Older style carb required setting up the low speed first, then the high speed, not the other way around. This seasoned veteran would explain this to the newbie, who couldn't get it to run reliably, then tweak. Plane would take off, fly decently, land.

Saw him the next weekend, same problem, still dinking with the carb adjustments. The vet tweaks his carb, followed by an another series of successful flights. Other fliers would badger him, "Why don't you get an OS? :## never had a problem with OS <= I but Foxes are always a problem." ~^

Next time the vet saw him, his plane now had a new OS engine mounted. This solved the newbie's problem, of course ....  HB~> LL~

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2020, 01:28:36 PM »
And he still didn't learn.   D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2020, 02:07:44 PM »

Saw him the next weekend, same problem, still dinking with the carb adjustments. The vet tweaks his carb, followed by an another series of successful flights. Other fliers would badger him, "Why don't you get an OS? :## never had a problem with OS <= I but Foxes are always a problem." ~^

Next time the vet saw him, his plane now had a new OS engine mounted. This solved the newbie's problem, of course ....  HB~> LL~

   Of course, that doesn't solve the problem here. Even if you know exactly what you are doing, a Fox is not competitive, it's not a matter of people not knowing or not learning the tricks, it's a matter of inadequate performance even in the hands of the masters.

   Bob Gieseke knew more about these things than anyone who ever lived, if he can't do it, no one can.

    Brett


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