News:



  • March 28, 2024, 04:24:36 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition  (Read 13325 times)

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2020, 06:59:55 PM »
Duke personally taught me how to tune a carb, and it worked well.  Life goes on, so now I fly only electric. They tune so much easier...
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online GERALD WIMMER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 622
    • Auckland Free Flight Club
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2020, 04:23:20 AM »
   Of course, that doesn't solve the problem here. Even if you know exactly what you are doing, a Fox is not competitive, it's not a matter of people not knowing or not learning the tricks, it's a matter of inadequate performance even in the hands of the masters.

   Bob Gieseke knew more about these things than anyone who ever lived, if he can't do it, no one can.

    Brett
Hello Just wondering here as few engines like an OS LA46's or VF40-46's will probably prove competitive compared to electric in the future .
Which Fox engine had the best potential forgetting about the Fox 35 a minute?
Perhaps:
Light weight ABC 40 C Frame engine of combat origins
The 'Ceramic' light weight modified but still old design Eagle 60
Hawk 60 with light weight and schnuerle porting but pipe style timing
B frame 50 up-sized 40 engine
The Eagle Mk4 RE as a 74 heavyweight that needed a diet
Old Fox 78 baffle piston engine
Older Fox 59 stunt if it didn't wrap and overheat with its steel fins and was made like the Merco 40 ABC

Regards Gerald

Offline dave siegler

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1128
  • sport flier
    • Circlemasters Flying club
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2020, 07:17:44 AM »
This conversation is interesting for 3 reasons

1) If MECO actually makes one, I'll be surprised and pretty sure MECOA is not going to change a thing, unless it is easier to make.

2) Only a few on this list will buy one.  90% will not own one and only 1% will actually use one on an airplane.

3) Everyone has advice for MECOA.     
Dave Siegler
NE9N extra class
AMA 720731
EAA 1231299 UAS Certificate Number FA39HY9ML7  Member of the Milwaukee Circlemasters. A Gold Leader Club for over 25 years!  http://www.circlemasters.com/

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2020, 08:04:51 AM »
This conversation is interesting for 3 reasons
1) If MECO actually makes one, I'll be surprised and pretty sure MECOA is not going to change a thing, unless it is easier to make.
2) Only a few on this list will buy one. 90% will not own one and only 1% will actually use one on an airplane.
3) Everyone has advice for MECOA.

It is also interesting that there is an expectation ~^ for a 70 year old design to provide the power for larger wing area planes requiring later, more powerful technology and increased displacement engines. D>K

Offline RandySmith

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 13747
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
    • Aero Products
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2020, 01:53:57 PM »
"  Brett said  "It's less funny than you think. A group of the Fox factory people, including Betty, did a promotional tour including the Northwest regionals, and asked several experts to evaluate their 60-sized stunt engine. They wanted to do it on Friday, didn't have any takers. Finally Paul Walker does it after the contest. He evaluates the engine and gave them some suggestions. They just argued with him. I think this is the ceramic 60 which they later claimed "tore the wings off the airplane" it was so powerful, they were going to "throw the handle at the airplane to save the engine" (??) but it "flew anyway" -  in as bizarre an ad copy as I have ever seen. "

It  was so powerful  it flew the  airplane, even after it tore the wings off, but  we , did,  put the  wings back on for the second flight !

Randy

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2020, 05:02:11 PM »
The top competitors in the 50s would get a bunch of engines and use the best one. (Duke provided the top guys for free so the winner always flew Fox) They did not use mufflers. Their models were superbly as light as the finish would allow. (40 points then) The engines were beat to death and didn’t last long. By comparison, modern engines are miraculous, the available power allows reasonable engine life and oil requirements are better understood. Airfoils and control systems have been refined. (45 deg everywhere isn’t good?)  It is a whole different ballgame.

And now electric.....

You want to fly a Fox? Build a very light green box Nobler, no muffler, 25% castor 3% synthetic fuel and avoid competition. You will have fun. That is what it is good for these days. Enjoy and have fun, it’s a hobby, not a career.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13716
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2020, 08:38:45 PM »
It  was so powerful  it flew the  airplane, even after it tore the wings off, but  we , did,  put the  wings back on for the second flight !

Yes, while the superior performance of the Fox 60 Ceramic Stunt renders conventional aerodynamic surfaces  superfluous, there is always appearance judging.

    I am still stuck on the assertion that throwing the handle at the airplane saves the engine. How does that one work?

     Brett

Offline Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2084
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2020, 06:38:19 AM »
Quote
I am still stuck on the assertion that throwing the handle at the airplane saves the engine. How does that one work?

Translated from Arkansasese it means "to throw a towel into the prop to stop it from running backwards."

Not sure why you'd design a 60 size engine to run backwards.  Maybe to have a breaking effect on the downside of the wing-over?   ;D

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2020, 07:01:36 AM »
I am still stuck on the assertion that throwing the handle at the airplane saves the engine. How does that one work?

Not the handle, that's what Fox .15's are for. %^@ LL~

Offline Dan Berry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1054
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2020, 07:33:18 AM »
This might be the answer.

Offline dave siegler

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1128
  • sport flier
    • Circlemasters Flying club
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2020, 09:29:38 AM »
"  Brett said  "It's less funny than you think. A group of the Fox factory people, including Betty, did a promotional tour including the Northwest regionals, and asked several experts to evaluate their 60-sized stunt engine. They wanted to do it on Friday, didn't have any takers. Finally Paul Walker does it after the contest. He evaluates the engine and gave them some suggestions. They just argued with him. I think this is the ceramic 60 which they later claimed "tore the wings off the airplane" it was so powerful, they were going to "throw the handle at the airplane to save the engine" (??) but it "flew anyway" -  in as bizarre an ad copy as I have ever seen. "

It  was so powerful  it flew the  airplane, even after it tore the wings off, but  we , did,  put the  wings back on for the second flight !

Randy

Fox tried to do a little marketing and had some unrealistic exaggerated statements?  I give them a little credit for trying. 

Wow no one has done that ever. 

its called exaggeration and everyone in marketing does it. 




 1) Ever watched a car commercial, or listen to anything that came out of Carol Shelby's mount?  ( and I like Shelby)
 2) Strong enough for a man but made for a woman 
 3) The pickup truck catching an airplane nose wheel landing. 
 4) "Bleach so white it blocks you shadow" 
 5) 4 out of 5 Dr's prefer .....
 6) Anything with weight loss supplements.
 7) Motor so strong it pulled the wings clear off. 
 8) The lonely Maytag repair man.

Dave Siegler
NE9N extra class
AMA 720731
EAA 1231299 UAS Certificate Number FA39HY9ML7  Member of the Milwaukee Circlemasters. A Gold Leader Club for over 25 years!  http://www.circlemasters.com/

Offline Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1260
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2020, 10:10:21 AM »
After watching a friend have 2 flying seasons basically wasted with the hassle and bother caused by several finicky Fox 35 engines, I seriously can't conceive what people see in these POS slag relics.  Wasted flight after wasted flight.  It's the perfect engine for people who like to endlessly tinker and trouble-shoot.  Banish them all to sock drawer hell where they belong.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Rob Duckering

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2020, 10:59:54 AM »
I wonder if the 75th anniversary engine will have 50th anniversary on the case still?
Duck

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2020, 11:13:47 AM »
After watching a friend have 2 flying seasons basically wasted with the hassle and bother caused by several finicky Fox 35 engines, I seriously can't conceive what people see in these POS slag relics.  Wasted flight after wasted flight.  It's the perfect engine for people who like to endlessly tinker and trouble-shoot.  Banish them all to sock drawer hell where they belong.

Oh, really? I don't have a Fox .35, but have friends that do. They were easy starting, refuel, a couple flips with glow plug igniter connected, and they were off for another series of successful flights. They vibrate a bit more than my McCoy .35 Red Heads, but I never noticed them to be a problem engine in the CL circles.

Offline Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2084
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2020, 11:18:48 AM »
Quote
I seriously can't conceive what people see in these POS slag relics.

Brent: don't be so coy.  Tell us what you really think!    LL~

Well, at this point I have to come out of the closet and admit that I really like the Fox 35.

For saber-dancing.

It is the perfect engine for saber-dancing!  And the older and more broken in, the better!

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22752
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2020, 12:25:10 PM »
I think the Fox 35 was my third engine.  Yes it was hard to start the first time and I tried to break it in per the instruction sheet.   When I finally put it on a plane it started okay but would go lean.  Was told it was not broken in yet.  Opened the needle to where it would fly barely and each time I would go in a few clicks on the needle.  By about a dozen flights it got to where I could loop and do 8's.  Was told that it took this person all summer to break his in.  I still fly that Fox of mine and it will do the pattern without getting hot or leaned out.  I have torn it down once to clean all the carbon and burnt castor out of it.  I have sence learned to run a Fox 35 on the bench enough that I can put it in the air and finish breaking it in.

When I was a member of the RC club I flew Fox 40's .   Was told several times I should use the electric starter for safety.  I asked why when my engine will start on first or second flip.   I also told him if guys would learn how to start and set a Fox they would have less trouble with the engines they were using.   D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2020, 12:48:31 PM »
I called the factory once to tell them my Fox 35 had a bad vibration. They told me to run 29% castor.

It wasn't that the vibration was excessive, it was more than my McCoy RH. Some of them also ride Harley-Davidson's whereas I like my turbine smooth Kawasaki Voyager XII with in-line 1200. May have something to do with the reason why they didn't see vibrations as excessive. ;D

Offline curtis williams

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 52
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2020, 01:24:24 PM »
One thought I have is if they do make new ones, they should include all the improvements that people have made.  Modern piston and liner, Randy Smith head, hi-zoot crank shaft, super tigre needle valve.
If price goes up, you should get a better product.
I learned a lot with my Foxes, however none of them ran as good as my stock O.S. Max-s 35.
I'm not sure what year the max-s came out, around 1963? Fox came out in 1948.
Fox 35 is a design that was and is ok, but it is not a modern P.A. You are not going to win the nats with one.
Perhaps Joe Gilbert could with his light Ringmaster.
I just want to have fun with what little time I can devote to the hobby.
May you all keep your lines tight.

Offline curtis williams

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 52
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2020, 01:32:45 PM »
Oh I forgot the stuffer backplate.🙂

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1773
    • AirClassix on eBay
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2020, 02:21:21 PM »
Oh, really? I don't have a Fox .35, but have friends that do. They were easy starting, refuel, a couple flips with glow plug igniter connected, and they were off for another series of successful flights. They vibrate a bit more than my McCoy .35 Red Heads, but I never noticed them to be a problem engine in the CL circles.


I might have been one of those friends, though we've never met.  I've had more darned fun with Fox 35s since about 1953 than should be allowed ...  Never competed in Stunt at the Nats, maybe that's the secret.

 D>K
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Chuck_Smith

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2020, 05:08:27 AM »
As long as there are Bi Slobs, the Fox .35 will always have a home.

My current daily driver has a twin-charged four cylinder, both supercharged AND turbocharged. It effortlessly cranks out 365 nearly silent HP, but the sound of an old Mustang with a 289 and glass packs is still much more attractive. To me Fox .35's are the muscle cars of controline. They have a wonderful, unique note (and smell!) that in and of itself makes them worthy to own at least one.

My  $.02 - Not every controline plane flown needs to be capable of winning a current world championship. It's OK to go fly something just because it's fun once in a while. If a Fox .35 makes you smile - have at it.

Plus they have the added advantage that you get to relive your most current flights every time you walk by the dirty clothes hamper and smell the castor oil. 

In peace,

Chuck
AMA 76478

Offline Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2084
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2020, 07:43:22 AM »
Quote
every time you walk by the dirty clothes hamper and smell the castor oil.

My wife won't wash my "flying clothes" with the other laundry.

Apparently, "I love the smell of burnt castor oil in the morning" is not in her vocabulary.... :D

Offline Chuck_Smith

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2020, 08:22:04 AM »
My wife won't wash my "flying clothes" with the other laundry.

Apparently, "I love the smell of burnt castor oil in the morning" is not in her vocabulary.... :D

Same here. But my wife has no problem when she contaminates the Keurig with some pod full of mocha almond cinnamon caramel chocolate' cafe that lingers through the next 5 brews of black coffee I drink.

"Can't live with em', pass the beer nuts."


Chuck
AMA 76478

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2020, 08:40:58 AM »
I have a totally separate “flying” wardrobe in an isolated part of my closet. And yes the get washed separately.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline BillP

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 513
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2020, 01:16:22 PM »
After watching a friend have 2 flying seasons basically wasted with the hassle and bother caused by several finicky Fox 35 engines, I seriously can't conceive what people see in these POS slag relics.  Wasted flight after wasted flight.  It's the perfect engine for people who like to endlessly tinker and trouble-shoot.  Banish them all to sock drawer hell where they belong.

That's amusing but your friend is the problem, not the engine. I fly several Fox 35s and they generally start on the first couple flips...and fly the entire tank unless I did something stupid with the glow plug or fuel delivery delivery. I rarely have to adjust the needles. They also have Big Art tongue muffs and fly fine without overheating or whatever the reason is not to run tongue muffs on them. The downfall of the Fox 35 for my flying is the burp...no tight outsides.
Bill P.

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2020, 01:58:23 PM »
The downfall of the Fox 35 for my flying is the burp...no tight outsides.

 :! The quick and dirty fix I saw posted somewhere was simply epoxying a scrap stick of sealed (against fuel) plywood to reduce the crankcase bypass volume. This accelerated air-fuel mixture through the bypass so the fuel mix didn't condense and collect in the crankcase. Burp b1 was caused by droplettes of fuel condensation hitting the combustion chamber, causing a temporary ignition hiccup. :X

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13716
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2020, 03:06:54 PM »
Fox tried to do a little marketing and had some unrealistic exaggerated statements?  I give them a little credit for trying. 

Wow no one has done that ever. 

its called exaggeration and everyone in marketing does it. 

    But the "exaggeration" doesn't make sense no matter how you slice it! It "tore the wings off of the airplane"?  Forget that it's ridiculous and even if true- I don't want the wings torn off my airplane. Is destroying the airplane some figure of merit? You would think exaggeration would be presumed to sell "more" engines, not have people avoid it.

     By the way, I saw at least one of the airplanes they were using (a SIG Magnum with about a pound of tip weight and 30 degrees of rudder offset - to make the engine feel really "strong"?) , it was possible the wing would have fallen off during appearance judging. So that part I can easily believe.

  My guess is, if anything like this happened at all, one or the other of the wings *did* fold, probably at the usual spot for wing-mounted gear, just outboard of the gear blocks, from a combination of fatigue, poor workmanship, and vibration (and I don't know if this engine is a particularly bad shaker but ST60s running max props were not exactly jet turbines, either), In this case, a Veco 19 would probably keep it in the air flying level. That's a shame, you don't want to see airplanes fall apart, but tells you nothing about the value of the engine.

      I can guarantee you from watching it happen and having it nearly happen that you can probably put more stress on the wing with a 40VF, and ever since we had tuned pipe engines and even ST60s, the rate of wing failure has gone up astronomically, as first discovered in New Jersey in the early-mid 80's. 60's exposed only questionable construction technique, but tuned pipe engines require the airplane to be built much more strongly than you used to even if you do everything right.

   But, what in the name of God would "throwing the handle at the airplane" accomplish in regard to "saving the motor"?! It will likely hit cylinder first. Not to mention you create a powered spear that flies off who knows where. In the extremely remote chance that the "airplane kept flying" with no wings, I guarantee you need to hold in all the up it has. Let go, and it goes on a majestic ballistic arc into the ground. That sounds like putting the engine out of it's misery, maybe that's what they mean by "saving" it.

    That is not exaggeration, it is a combination of bizarre nonsense or outright (and completely transparent) lies. Insulting people's intelligence with that sort of obvious bullshit does not sell engines, particularly when you can get any number of known quantities that have proven competitive at any level - many for *less money*.

    Brett
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 07:24:38 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Wayne Collier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2020, 05:46:15 PM »

My  $.02 - Not every controline plane flown needs to be capable of winning a current world championship. It's OK to go fly something just because it's fun once in a while. If a Fox .35 makes you smile - have at it.


Agee. 
I have lots of respect for top competitors. I admire the skill and discipline.
I also think there is a place for non-competitive enjoyment. 
I’ve burned a good bit of fuel just doing inside and outside loops and lazy eights.
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
<><

never confuse patience with slowness never confuse motion with progress

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13716
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2020, 09:59:04 PM »
After watching a friend have 2 flying seasons basically wasted with the hassle and bother caused by several finicky Fox 35 engines, I seriously can't conceive what people see in these POS slag relics.  Wasted flight after wasted flight.  It's the perfect engine for people who like to endlessly tinker and trouble-shoot.  Banish them all to sock drawer hell where they belong.

    I had similar results - but, being a bit slow on the uptake, I kept at it for much longer than two flying sessions, it probably took me about a year of very regular flying, *dozens* crashes caused by engine issues, and 4 destroyed airplanes, before I got reliable runs. And I still, to this day, even with my subsequent 40 years of experience, *have absolutely no idea what caused most of the problems, or how what I did fixed it. For example, I have a project in the background that uses a Fox 35. Since I only got it to work with a Sullivan 4 ounce round tank, I saved the tank, still have it from the last flight in 1978, and if/when I finish, I will be running the same tank with no changes except having bleached it back out from dark brown to white again with hydrogen peroxide. I am afraid to even take the stopper out, that might make the magic escape.

    Once I managed it, it was *remarkably stable*, I mean, remarkable even by current standards. As long as *you never touched it* - change one thing or even tighten a screw, and all bets were off. That's why it was a pretty good competition engine back in the 50's - it had at least equal performance to most of them, it lasted *forever*, and as long as you could get it working once, it was going to keep working until you did something. Even when it was working incorrectly, it would work incorrectly in *exactly the same way*, until you changed something, then it might work right, or might work wrong, but whatever it was doing, it would keep doing indefinitely.

   That meant that as long as you didn't *have to* change anything you were set. It made it almost impossible to safely switch engines or make any real changes for performance reasons, because you never knew what you might get, it could do what you expected, or start flaming out at random again. If it crapped out, and you changed engines, all bets were off.

   It has always been an exceptionally poor sport engine -almost anything else you can get, including a lot of its early-50s counterparts, was a lot easier to deal with. Even the lowly McCoy 35 Redhead which was a bargain-bin special, could be thrown together and work without a lot of fuss. It wore out quickly, performance was nothing to write home about, but it was probably going to work and not require a month or random experimentation to stumble on a functional system.

    Now, of course, all of the vintage engines are far more difficult to deal with than the low-ball cheapest modern engines. The things these old engines have going for them are nostalgia and the fact that there are *tens of thousands* of them just lying around to use.

      It makes nearly no difference to me what engines people use, but when I see someone struggling or having issues, it is rather frustrating to watch them screw around with problems that have long since been solved just because of nostalgia.

   Brett

Offline BillP

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 513
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #79 on: December 06, 2020, 06:54:26 AM »
:! The quick and dirty fix I saw posted somewhere was simply epoxying a scrap stick of sealed (against fuel) plywood to reduce the crankcase bypass volume. This accelerated air-fuel mixture through the bypass so the fuel mix didn't condense and collect in the crankcase. Burp b1 was caused by droplettes of fuel condensation hitting the combustion chamber, causing a temporary ignition hiccup. :X

I tried that about 20 yrs ago with hardwood and dimensions from an illustration posted on the web. Whatever the reason it didn't change anything (probably my fitting inaccuracy) and I worried it might come loose in flight so took it out. This was on a hemi w/stuffer backplate, no muff and an upright mount...and contrary to info I see posted it also burped the same as a profile mount.
Bill P.

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #80 on: December 06, 2020, 11:09:20 PM »
I tried that about 20 yrs ago with hardwood and dimensions from an illustration posted on the web. Whatever the reason it didn't change anything (probably my fitting inaccuracy) and I worried it might come loose in flight so took it out. This was on a hemi w/stuffer backplate, no muff and an upright mount...and contrary to info I see posted it also burped the same as a profile mount.

That is really strange. Could you perchance have offended a witch who hexed your engine? 
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline BillP

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 513
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2020, 11:11:18 AM »
That is really strange. Could you perchance have offended a witch who hexed your engine?

What is strange?
Bill P.

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2020, 08:52:40 AM »
I never heard of a Fox having burp problems upright or inverted, only horizontal.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13716
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2020, 01:25:27 PM »
I never heard of a Fox having burp problems upright or inverted, only horizontal.

   There are other possible causes of engines quitting. Mine quit repeatedly in an inverted mount, it stopped when I went to a round Sullivan clunk tank. The same tank with the same geometry didn't work on a profile mount.  If you have the classic "profile burp", there is one and only one fix.

   That's what I meant when I said it was never a good sport engine. I still have *absolutely no idea* why putting a Sullivan round clunk tank in my Nobler made it work, even with everything I have since learned, I only have a vague notion and some theories. I kept the tank intact  and around for ~40 years since, because I don't know if I could ever replicate the same magic again, even with another tank of the same design. I still have the other one I bought at the time in the original package, the new ones might not have the same properties.

   I can tell people how to set up their 20FP and have it work with absolutely no other knowledge, the only times it hasn't worked the way mine did is when it is "improved". Follow the directions and you will succeed. Same with ST46 (which was frustrating in other ways), same with a 40VF, same with a PA61, same with a RO-Jett 61 BSE. You sure can't count on that with a Fox. That alone is a good enough reason to avoid it, unless you have a nostalgic need to fiddle with engines.

    Brett

Offline Dennis Moritz

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2464
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2020, 06:41:01 PM »
You want a Fox 35, buy it at a swap, an estate sale, off a friend at a club. Or let them give you one. Often the old ones can be run without a muffler, RC fliers usually don't notice. Chain Saw engines thunder no matter what. I never use Foxes, somehow someway, I own ten.

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2020, 07:25:51 PM »
Mine quit repeatedly in an inverted mount, it stopped when I went to a round Sullivan clunk tank. The same tank with the same geometry didn't work on a profile mount.

If not uniflow, may have something to do with the way the fuel moves outward due to the centrifugal forces. Square or rectangular tank, it is easy to place the vent end inside the tank toward the inner upper corner, so it is always properly venting. Round adds a new situation because you don't have that out of the way corner. I'm sure that by say filling the tank with a liquid, then rotating the aircraft about its engine line access to simulate flight centrifugal forces will help reveal the issue.

Offline De Hill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2020, 11:24:33 PM »
Fuel tanks-

Go to youtube.

Enter twistmastertank

For controls -

Go to youtube

Enter twistmastercontrols

Thank you Bob Reeves!
De Hill

Offline Michael Novobrantsev

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2021, 11:59:53 AM »
Hello from  Ukraine !
 Today I receive parcel from my friend which made to me new ABC Eagle 60  (new abc p/l , new cylinder head combustion chamber so as  Como 51 ,  and pdp channel, compression 11.3(0%nitro ))
my previous ABC Eagle awesome !






I ordered one additional ABC P/L set , if somebody  want buy it write me .
I like  sound of older engines .
More than , i will starting  to using  piped engines ( OS46VF ) in this season .


Peace on earth and let s Fly together !



Offline Charles Foley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2021, 03:56:36 PM »
If they do produce it I hope they easily correct some of the glaring errors designed into it or at least produce it with the accuracy of modern machinery. I also hope they have decent parts support.

Of course none of these things will happen.

Motorman 8)

I purchased a new Fox 35 about ten years ago from Tower when they were about sixty bucks. I still have it new in the box. The muffler is a joke. One of the attaching muffler bolt holes does not align to the engine. Since I didn't notice this for several years  it was too late to send it back to Fox as they had recently closed shop. I will say the tooling and QC absolutely sucked. Flash still on the engine which need to be removed with a dremel. Now the engine is going to be reproduced for $180. If the tooling is the same I wouldn't give fifty bucks for one of these engines. They are not the Foxes of old

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2021, 07:53:31 PM »
I bought a Fox .25 R/C in the late 1990's, the cross scavenge one. I got it because I really like the older cross scavenge technology, but have never put it to use. It came with their latest MKX carb. First thing I noticed besides the obvious rough looking exterior finish was the threads for the prop nut were cut slightly off-center. I suppose a properly reamed prop will still center on it, but that caught my eye.

Am told that such are good running engines, and I suppose so. But meanwhile I have a couple decent Enya .19's, and a few Schneurles of .20 - .25 displacement. Only other Foxes I have are the .15-X, so just haven't felt a compulsion to go Fox .35 since I have other .35's (McCoy, K&B, Enya).

Offline BillP

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 513
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2021, 07:11:04 AM »
I bought a Fox .25 R/C in the late 1990's, the cross scavenge one. I got it because I really like the older cross scavenge technology, but have never put it to use. It came with their latest MKX carb. First thing I noticed besides the obvious rough looking exterior finish was the threads for the prop nut were cut slightly off-center. I suppose a properly reamed prop will still center on it, but that caught my eye.

Am told that such are good running engines, and I suppose so. But meanwhile I have a couple decent Enya .19's, and a few Schneurles of .20 - .25 displacement. Only other Foxes I have are the .15-X, so just haven't felt a compulsion to go Fox .35 since I have other .35's (McCoy, K&B, Enya).

Go fly that Fox! I fly a Flightstreak with the plain bushing (4 bolt back plate) Fox 25. It shares the same muff as the Fox 35. Starts, needles and runs just like an OS FP or Magnum GP.  Nothing quirky about it. Castings/finish is ok  but not as refined as OS, etc.
Bill P.

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2021, 09:34:49 AM »
Go fly that Fox! I fly a Flightstreak with the plain bushing (4 bolt back plate) Fox 25. It shares the same muff as the Fox 35. Starts, needles and runs just like an OS FP or Magnum GP.  Nothing quirky about it. Castings/finish is ok  but not as refined as OS, etc.

Bill, good report on use. ;D I haven't "turned woke" %^@ on Foxes, yet. ;)

Offline BillP

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 513
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2021, 03:54:49 PM »
Bill, good report on use. ;D I haven't "turned woke" %^@ on Foxes, yet. ;)

Tach numbers from my bench run notes...5% nitro/25% castor at sea level.
R/C carb
14.2k rpm 9/4 nylon MAS
11.2         9/6  wood Rev Up Pro 4

CL venturi
12.0        9/4 wood TF SuperM
10.1        9/6    "     "      "
7.1          10/6 nylon MAS

Bill P.

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13716
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2021, 05:20:41 PM »
Starts, needles and runs just like an OS FP or Magnum GP. 

   Which one are you talking about?  Both versions I tried required extensive break-in and had nothing like the power of something like a 20FP, and shook like the dickens.

    Brett

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 510
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2021, 05:58:08 PM »
Tach numbers from my bench run notes...5% nitro/25% castor at sea level.
R/C carb
14.2k rpm 9/4 nylon MAS
11.2         9/6  wood Rev Up Pro 4

CL venturi
12.0        9/4 wood TF SuperM
10.1        9/6    "     "      "
7.1          10/6 nylon MAS

Bill, your numbers on 5% nitro follow very closely to Peter Chinn's in his Jan. 1982 Aeromodeller engine test article. Peak HP of 0.41 at 13,500 RPM isn't too shabby. I imagine that with a tongue muffler and replacing carb with a venturi setup would peak it out a little more. HP is up there in the mild .35 cross scavenge range. According to Peter, a 10x4 to 9x5 seems optimal for the R/C.

http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Fox%2025%20RC.html

I'm gathering that the venturi you got probably is set up for excellent suction, may be the reason for slightly lower RPM's. Then it seems to make a good choice for a Sterling S-1 Ringmaster.

Online GERALD WIMMER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 622
    • Auckland Free Flight Club
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2021, 12:37:35 AM »
Hello A great way to test the characteristics of potential engines is put them on a combat wing, its also a fun way to run them in , as they don't have to work too hard .
I had a particularly tight Fox 35 I put on a vintage combat wing with a 8x6 prop had it was happy running rich and not overheating till it loosened up.
 Must say I have found the OS FP/Magnum GP 25 my favorite slow combat engine, light and powerful and doesn't run too hot . When run on a combat wing the OS FP20 was too slow and lacked power and old Fox 25 baffle ran too hot when pressed but the Fox 19 schnuerle ported engines run real well and the 25 version got to give the OSFP25 a good run for its money. Fox 35's don't have the power to weight of modern schnuerle engines but they look nice on vintage models and sound good. Where a modern engine may run better they don't have the right character on a classic model. Having sold a few Fox 35's when I was a Fox agent in NZ they certainly outsold other better or modern Fox engines but it was what people wanted for their classic/vintage models and Bislobs. Would I try selling them again at today's prices???... no,  the internet offers to many options to flyers now, compared to 25years ago ...

Regards Gerald

Offline BillP

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 513
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2021, 09:16:02 AM »
   Which one are you talking about?  Both versions I tried required extensive break-in and had nothing like the power of something like a 20FP, and shook like the dickens.

    Brett


First version of the 4 bolt back plate...plain bearing 25 crossflow. I bought it used with very little flight time.  I converted to cl with the Fox bolt on venturi.  I don't remember much about  break in but it starts, runs, needles as smooth as any of my offshore engines (which include 40FP and 40GP among others). No more or less user friendly than any other modern engine. HP wise I don't have an FP20 for comparison but it pulls the Flightstreak with authority (.015x60), 9/6 MAS, 5/25 all castor Sig in a wet 2 stroke, Fox 35 muff without tank pressure...one speed the whole flight.
Bill P.

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13716
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2021, 06:34:42 PM »
HP wise I don't have an FP20 for comparison but it pulls the Flightstreak with authority (.015x60), 9/6 MAS, 5/25 all castor Sig in a wet 2 stroke

   That's one of the ones I tested, and actually own that one - early 70's with the square "flange". The other one was much older and looked like a bored-out 15x/19 with a cast-in venturi.

   I found the same  - you had to run 6" of pitch, which is very much like the other similar baffle-piston engines (with the exception of the Veco 19). Much more like the OS-25 baffle-piston engine and Fox 29. It works OK that way, but doesn't give anything like the speed stability of a 9-4 or 10-4. Try it, and it's clearly "over the top" in the maneuvers, and very weak overhead.

   By the same token, the 20FP will run with a 9-6 but you have to run it so slow compared to what it wants that it is uncontrollable and also won't draw fuel. That was the mistake almost everyone made with any schneurle engine from the schnuerle wars, and no one really caught on until Bubba, Rich Tower, and company, also added a frequency-dependent regulator- the tuned pipe.

   The entire premise of the "small engine experiments' was to find engines that could be subbed in for a Fox 35 on profiles, require *no* modification, and ran 4" of pitch just like regular stunt planes. And also avoid the problem with the 40FP, which is *far too powerful* to go where a Fox 35 goes and "runs away". "Runs away" is stunt-speak for "run like it was designed to run". After getting beat over the head with working examples for years, I finally did some simple calculations that showed the 40FP "runaways" were a problem because they were giving about twice the horsepower that you needed. So - get one that runs about the same but is half the size.

    Brett

Online GERALD WIMMER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 622
    • Auckland Free Flight Club
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2021, 07:00:45 PM »
 
   The entire premise of the "small engine experiments' was to find engines that could be subbed in for a Fox 35 on profiles, require *no* modification, and ran 4" of pitch just like regular stunt planes. And also avoid the problem with the 40FP, which is *far too powerful* to go where a Fox 35 goes and "runs away". "Runs away" is stunt-speak for "run like it was designed to run". After getting beat over the head with working examples for years, I finally did some simple calculations that showed the 40FP "runaways" were a problem because they were giving about twice the horsepower that you needed. So - get one that runs about the same but is half the size.

    Brett

Reminds me of a small enginened stunter I designed and built 35+ years ago using a K&B 3.5 (I also used them for combat back then). It was a magic combination when it ran on song at full revs but fell out of the sky if it went rich or to lean and lost its setting. Way more critical then a Fox 35 but the K&B 3.5 had twice the power of a OSLA20 or Fox 35 just not consistent enough 'the way I had it set up'. This is before the common use of AeroTigers and piped engines around here (NZ) but does make me wonder if its worth digging out and experimenting with again just for the challenge . My flying buddy got his version going better with a new at the time
Fox 19BB  schnuerle as it was a bit more tame and easier to tune .

Regards Gerald

Offline Dennis Moritz

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2464
Re: Coming soon New Fox 35 75th edition
« Reply #99 on: March 07, 2021, 11:08:48 PM »
I have ten want one.


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here