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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: paulwells66 on October 08, 2020, 04:24:06 PM
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doing silkspan and dope on two models and more to come. I want to silkspan and dope the elevator and horizantal stab before I install them..at least I think this is what I should do. My question is when I go to install the hinges do I cut away the silkspan or just glue them on top?. Also what glue do you like to use. alphatiac etc. Looking forward to hearing from many cloth hinge masters! Thank You
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Don't use cloth anymore but the many years I did the hinge material is glued right to the wood with model cement (Sigment etc.) then the covering is applied right over the hinges. I don't cover anything until the whole airplane is together.
Dave
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what hinges should I use for my super combat streak? If I don't have to use cloth I won't.
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and also why do you cover after? I guess I just worried about bumping the thing around while laying the material and sanding. seems cumbersome. But is assembled how must people do it
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On the planes I doped I would dope the hinges on after covering. I put enough dope on so a really thin coat of dope over the hinge material adheres real well. If you look in the finish you will see now I put cloth hinges under the doc paper/poly-span and mylar over that. D>K
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Some hobby shops still carry cloth strips for hinges. Not so many now because modelers make their own.
Visit a fabric store and get some Rayon "Taffeta". It might come in strips or by the yard. You can buy 1/2 yard without the lady getting angry.
Cloth hinges, glued right to the balsa, are smooth and long-lasting. Sealing hinge gap not necessary if the hinges are close together.
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I use Tom Dixon’s method, as retold on the Tulsa Glue Dobbers’ website Tulsacl.com. Apply cloth hinges using Sigment, then silkspan over the entire surface. Cut the hinge line with sandpaper and finish as desired.
Gary
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and also why do you cover after? I guess I just worried about bumping the thing around while laying the material and sanding. seems cumbersome. But is assembled how must people do it
I never had much of a problem maneuvering the airplane around to cover it. If anything the whole thing can help hold the airplane still while you work on it. That is very helpful if you are trying to stretch silk. Covering over the hinges helps to hide them somewhat and even the finish out. The problem with cloth hinges is you will get a certain amount of dope in them 1. GOOD to help fuel/oil proof them and 2.BAD they will be pretty stiff at least for a while. Once they really get loose enough they are oil rotting and need to be replaced. They may be necessary for the tail feathers on your combat streak since they are so thin. I have installed nylon hinges in 3/16" wood but it's a challenge. I am working on a Magician kit for someone and there I just redid the stab/elevators in 1/4" wood so I could hinge them better. You can surely go with the cloth on the stock tail but don't plan to actively fly the airplane for more than 2-3 years without having to fix them. By then the parts might be so greasy the work is impractical. If your airplane is to be used in mostly a training role then it doesn't really matter. The hinges will likely outlast the airplane.
Dave
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I use Dacron hinges that I got from Tom Morris. I dope them on with Nitrate dope because it holds. Covering over the hinges and they almost disappear.
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"Dacron" is a synthetic fabric, also known as "Ceconite", used to cover full-size fabric aircraft. It can be used for hinges, but it is somewhat stiff, and relatively non-absorbent. That means that glue or dope doesn't penetrate very well. Dacron hinges are more difficult to stick down and stay stuck! Rayon is also a synthetic, but takes glue better. As far as doping cloth hinges, the dope does get into the hinge line, but a couple minutes working the controls back and forth, seems to loosen things up well.
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I use cloth hinges, gluing them without gaps, sometimes with white glue, aliphatic resin glue, or Sigment/Ambroid types. I silkspan over the hinges with good results. I silkspan the wing before inserting it. Sanding afterwards can make the hinges almost invisible. I sometimes place the stabilizer/elevator hinges under 1/16" sheet on the stab, with the sheeting tapering down to the hinge line ahead of the elevator, which is not sheeted. So in these applications, the forward half of the hinge is not visible at all. It's a matter of preference, but I don't see any advantage to hinging over your covering. Cloth hinges work pretty well, and as Floyd says, they can make taping the gaps unnecessary.
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I silkspan the wing and flaps separately, then hinge them afterwards. You don't need to use thick, heavy cloth for hinges, I use lightweight nylon. It doesn't slop at all and you can bury it to the point of invisibility with a few coats of dope before paint.
Hinges before covering is just an unnecessary headache
.
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Here is how I do it, and I, like Ty, learned this from Tom Morris. I cover everything I am going to cover with polyspan. What they call Silkspan today is crap, I dont know what it is actually. Anyway, I bought a couple of yards of Dacron from Aircraft Spruce years ago and still have enough left to last another lifetime. After I get enough coats of nitrate on the covering, I dope the hinges down when I attach the flaps and elevators and then "lightly" blow over them with a heat gun and they will shrink down an become virtually invisible. I have tried hinged plastic type hinges and have always come back to dacron. They are the most flexible hinge there is.
Hope this helps.
Mike
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What about Tyvek for hinges? It was mentioned in a long-ago thread.
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I've also been using the Dacron that Bill mentioned. It works very well and they're not stiff even with multiple coats of dope. I use Testors fast dry to adhere them. I apply it liberally in the area and force it up and through the fabric. Sig Koverall works very well for this too. However, Sig Koverall has to be cut with a very sharp knife whereas the Dacron can be cut with scissors. I use both for 1/2A's which work with the freedom I would expect. I then apply the silkspan which is tough because you need to cut it properly and tuck it down the hinge line and wrap the underside but it looks great.
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This is my approach to hinging.
That shown in the photo was done over twenty years ago.
It's just plain old dental floss.
It can be painted, it's super flexible, UV resistant and strong (ever try to break a piece of dental floss?)
Bob Z.
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This is my approach to hinging.
That shown in the photo was done over twenty years ago.
It's just plain old dental floss.
It can be painted, it's super flexible, UV resistant and strong (ever try to break a piece of dental floss?)
Bob Z.
I agree. I use ordinary plastic hinges on my larger models, but any elevator-only models for 2.5 cc or smaller, with solid sheet tailplanes, have sewn hinges using fine Terylene (i.e. Dacron) thread. Dental floss sounds like a good idea - I must try it. It was many years ago that I got fed up with tape hinges, which could be stiff and sometimes frayed and broke. By the way, the instructions for the Mercury Crusader kit (which we all built as soon as we could get our hands on a .35 glow motor) specified making little recesses for the tape hinges so that they didn't show under the covering. This was such a P.I.T.A. that hardly anybody bothered with it. I certainly didn't!
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Hi All, I still use Goldberg Nylon reinforcing tape. I cut lengths of about 1.5 to 1.75", then fold them in two and stack them up in a bundle. Put the bundle in a spring close pin to get them to take a set. When ready to hinge I pre-glue the surfaces to be hinged by spreading either Ambriod or Sig ment on adjoining surfaces alternating between top and bottom of the surfaces, both flaps and elevators/ stabilizer. Now, after the pre glue has dried, apply the hinges by alternating top and bottom. Once one edge has dried pi the taped surface to it's mate and glue the two via hinges together. I built a ringmaster in 1974 and hinged it as described and that tail assembly was transplanted to yet another ringmaster in 1992 and is still rendering service! Flew that sucker this past weekend in the Fly-a Thon and it flies just fine!
Phil Spillman
P.S. This method and material is still flying in a Sterling Mustang started in 1985 and finished in 1992 and still working really well on both flaps and elevators.
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I used sewn spiderwire hinges on my Super Combat Streak. I use these all the time on racing planes and 1/2A planes. Spiderwire is definitely the way to go for strength, durability and life. You can space them out just like plastic hinges. I use 3 or 4 turns thru one small hole. Reinforce the stab TE and elevator LE with a thin spruce or bass spar to keep the hinges from cutting thru.
Good luck with your plane.
Dave
PS--If you are flying yours for sport and from pavement, I'd highly recommend using the landing gear design from the Peacemaker. It works great on this design, too.
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some great ideas and some beautiful work. thanks so much for the replies. I ended up slotting for either CA or the little plastic bendy hinges. was hard getting the exacto to go straight but with some practice I developed a technique.
looking forward to trying the sewn type and some of the other techniques mentioned.