Author Topic: My friend's Trivial (Read 6394 times)

MarcusCordeiro · « **on:** March 31, 2013, 01:19:54 PM »

Guys

This is my friend Marlus's Trivial Pursuit. Ro Jett 76.

Marcus

Brett Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2013, 01:27:14 PM »

Quote from: MarcusCordeiro on March 31, 2013, 01:19:54 PM

Guys

This is my friend Marlus's Trivial Pursuit. Ro Jett 76.

Marcus

Looks really nice! Need to work on getting rid of the rudder offset, though. At least this one is adjustable- on David's first TP/Star Gazer, he ended up cutting kerfs in the fin with a Zona saw to remove the built-in offset. On 3 different occasions! Definitely don't need to "manufacture" line tension if you have a 76. It worked dandy with a 40VF.

Brett

Will Hinton · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2013, 02:14:28 PM »

Those colors are simply scrumptious!!! I agree with Brett on the rudder offset - I've had three TP's and all flew/fly great without any.

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2013, 03:27:32 PM »

Lovely work, Marius. Hope it flies as well as it looks! What does it weigh with the clear covering?

Ted Fancher

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2013, 04:07:46 PM »

Hard to tell.. is the RO Jett running on a pipe? I have the RO-Jett 76 and a CF pipe. Wondering if I should take the plunge and order a header?

Floyd

Robby Hunt · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2013, 05:36:43 PM »

Marlus is THE MAN!

Matt Colan · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2013, 07:54:41 PM »

Wow that's looks great!!! I agree with everyone above, with the 76, I definitely didn't need any rudder offset in the airplane. Flies great without it

Bob Whitely · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2013, 11:01:01 PM »

Marius, You are very talented!! I enjoyed the video very much. Hope to meet you one
day. Best Wishes, Bob Whitely

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2013, 11:28:50 PM »

Bravo, Marius! Some very, very good stuff in that flight. I was particularly impressed with the inverted flight which appeared to simply sit on the top of the fence all the way round; haaaaard to do that.

I also was surprised at the perspective the wide angle lens gave the flight from the viewers point of view. Made it look like the whole pattern was flown below 60 degrees. Fun to watch.

Get that overhead eight straightened out and the hourglass symmetrical and go kick butt, my friend. Loved it and the music made it "rock!"

Ted

john e. holliday · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2013, 08:12:45 AM »

Thanks for the video and tell him the plane in the pics looks great.

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2013, 08:47:32 AM »

Hello guys! First of all, thank you all for the opportunity of being here.

This is my first post and I´m very pleased of hearing that you liked my plane, which my colleague Marcus Cordeiro gently wrote spontaneously about and sent some pics.

And even more proud of having received some kind words by master Ted Fancher. Truly, it´s a great honor to hear from you!

I will be glad to answer whatever quetions regarding construction and painting were there.

I consider the comments about the rudder, although I think it is really necessary on top manouvers. I had to increase it during trimming, cause it was not pulling enough, even with the leadouts adjusted and the 76er running towards outside a bit. I think it does play a good role in that part of the semi-sphere.

Regarding master Ted´s question about weight, it was a pretty light construction, but after several clear coats, it weighs around 1,900 grs now.

I´m running the 76 on a B. Eather 13,75" x 4,5" prop and RJ pipe also, since it was the lightest pipe I´ve seen and needed low weight on the middle section of the plane. The BE´s pipe was heavier, and Randy´s as well. To be honest, I´ve tried both ones and the RJett pipe is simply awesome, not mentioning it´s lighter.

Speaking of this, I´m kind of getting along better with heavier ships, which in my opinion turn smoother, are more stable and performs better on windy days. The red Trivial you could see in the movie sent from Robby (Thank you Robby, very kind as always!!) is really lightweight (1,670 grs) and I suffered flying it on windy days. Don´t know if it´s only my impression, but it´s the way I think...

Once again, many thanks for liking the vid, the comments and especially for Chacón, who first told me I should join this great group, Robby for posting it and Marcus for sending the pics!

Stay healthy and God bless you all!

Bregards,

Marlus

Claudio Chacon · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2013, 06:52:32 AM »

Quote from: Marlus Lago on April 01, 2013, 08:47:32 AM

Hello guys! First of all, thank you all for the opportunity of being here.

This is my first post and I´m very pleased of hearing that you liked my plane, which my colleague Marcus Cordeiro gently wrote spontaneously about and sent some pics.

And even more proud of having received some kind words by master Ted Fancher. Truly, it´s a great honor to hear from you!

I will be glad to answer whatever quetions regarding construction and painting were there.

I consider the comments about the rudder, although I think it is really necessary on top manouvers. I had to increase it during trimming, cause it was not pulling enough, even with the leadouts adjusted and the 76er running towards outside a bit. I think it does play a good role in that part of the semi-sphere.

Regarding master Ted´s question about weight, it was a pretty light construction, but after several clear coats, it weighs around 1,900 grs now.

I´m running the 76 on a B. Eather 13,75" x 4,5" prop and RJ pipe also, since it was the lightest pipe I´ve seen and needed low weight on the middle section of the plane. The BE´s pipe was heavier, and Randy´s as well. To be honest, I´ve tried both ones and the RJett pipe is simply awesome, not mentioning it´s lighter.

Speaking of this, I´m kind of getting along better with heavier ships, which in my opinion turn smoother, are more stable and performs better on windy days. The red Trivial you could see in the movie sent from Robby (Thank you Robby, very kind as always!!) is really lightweight (1,670 grs) and I suffered flying it on windy days. Don´t know if it´s only my impression, but it´s the way I think...

Once again, many thanks for liking the vid, the comments and especially for Chacón, who first told me I should join this great group, Robby for posting it and Marcus for sending the pics!

Stay healthy and God bless you all!

Bregards,

Marlus

Welcome to the Forum, buddy! It's nice to have you among us.

And post some pics of that Trivial Fleet of yours!
See you around...

Claudio.

Norvaldo · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2013, 02:07:42 PM »

Hi.
Just 2 questions:

What is the pipe legth and what RPM is the ROJett launching at ?

I have one newly aquiered .76 with pipe and header which i have not used yet and also a Rojett .67

Best regards
Norvald Olsvold.

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2013, 10:22:23 PM »

Fantastic video and nice plane! At the risk of sounding like I know something I'll offer this tip. My Ampact had great line tension everywhere except on the overheads. I had no rudder offset. PW installed a magic tip weight in it and presto the problem disappeared. I don't think it was much weight but the difference was significant.

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2013, 08:56:12 AM »

Cool to know this, Peter! Thanks for the hint. I´ve added a little more weight to the outside wing though.

Hello Norvald, my pipe has been run with 18,5" from the center of the plug to the pipe´s first baffle. RPM is set around 9570 to 9650 revs. Fuel I use is Morgan (green), which is originally 16% oil turned into 22% total. No synthetic added other than the original content, only 1st grade castor. Oh! Last but not least, I had to open the venturi to 6mm, cause originally it was not making much of a difference from my Ro-Jett 67. Now it´s been turn into an angry and thirsty Pit Bull! lol

As a matter of fact, my 67 (stock) powers my other Trivial (blue/yellow/green). It runs fantastic, consistent and just a bit calmer than the 76.

If you need any advice on the 67, pls let me know, ok?

I´ll post the pics of the other Triv soon, as Chacon mentioned previously.

Take care,

Marlus

Allan Perret · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2013, 07:29:31 AM »

Quote from: Marlus Lago on April 03, 2013, 08:56:12 AM

As a matter of fact, my 67 (stock) powers my other Trivial (blue/yellow/green). It runs fantastic, consistent and just a bit calmer than the 76.

If you need any advice on the 67, pls let me know, ok?

Marlus

I have a RoJett67 and will be putting it into service for 1st time soon.
Can you tell me about your setup ?
Using same fuel as mentioned for the 76 ?
Fuel quantity for pattern
Prop
Pipe length
Venturi
Plug

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2013, 11:54:24 AM »

Hi Allen,

Thanks for asking. My set-up for the 67 is almost the same as the 76, with 18,5" pipe length (B.E. #8), exactly the same fuel, however factory stock venturi (don´t remember the opening now...) and the prop a little smaller, with same pitch: B.E. 13" x 4,5" red. Actually it´s the same prop with the tips cut into measure.
For the plug, I used to have a Thunderbolt w/ bar, but it didn´t last that much. Than, I replaced it for an Enya #3 and it became more economic, I believe due to having more room for oxygen in the chamber. In the 76, I use an O.S. Type F (4 Stroke). Never replaced both plugs ever again. RPM is 9500 also at launch.
Regarding consumption, now I´m outside of town, so I can´t measure the tanks...

but when I return from this trip next week, I´ll post the measures for both.

My impressions:

67 => love the consistency and power of the 67 stock and its fuel economy. I haven´t opened the venturi, it wasn´t needed. I don´t know if opening it, the final result would be close to the 76. One thing is for sure: big fuel consumption increase.

76 => didn´t perform greatly in stock mode; not a difference to the 67. I spoke to Brian Eather and he told me the same, his 76 isn´t powerful as his 67 and also said he tried a lot of stuff. Mine did increase power with the venturi opened. Now it´s a little bit angrier

Well, considering my usage for the 67, I got mine running continuously for 1 and a half year now, and it doesn´t need a single bolt replaced. What happened to yours? What is your set-up?

Allan Perret · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2013, 12:21:23 PM »

Nothing happened, I bought it from another flyer who only put about 20 or so flights on it.

I am planning to get it into service this season and since I have no experience with this engine I was looking for some good baselines.

I am planning to use a round plastic clunk tank. I had a Sullivan R-8 working real good with a PA-65 last year and plan to use the same, unless the RoJett-67 can get by with the next smaller size which is a R-6.

Thanks for sharing your set-up.

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2013, 06:45:52 PM »

Quote from: Marlus Lago on April 01, 2013, 08:47:32 AM

"snip!"

And even more proud of having received some kind words by master Ted Fancher. Truly, it´s a great honor to hear from you!

It was my pleasure, Marius.

"snip!"

I consider the comments about the rudder, although I think it is really necessary on top manouvers. I had to increase it during trimming, cause it was not pulling enough, even with the leadouts adjusted and the 76er running towards outside a bit. I think it does play a good role in that part of the semi-sphere.

Regarding master Ted´s question about weight, it was a pretty light construction, but after several clear coats, it weighs around 1,900 grs now.

I´m running the 76 on a B. Eather 13,75" x 4,5" prop and RJ pipe also, since it was the lightest pipe I´ve seen and needed low weight on the middle section of the plane.

For what it's worth, Marius, I'm a big fan of no rudder offset because of other problems it can cause with respect to yaw trim. Take this with a little skepticism as I've no experience with the .76 but here's something I'd be interested in trying if vertical and overhead performance isn't as good as you'd like.

I'm not a big fan of real large diameter props and, even if they're working "OK," am always tempted to trim the tips and see what happens to performance. This would be a bit expensive with the big three blade CF props but if you had a spare to experiment with I'd be very tempted to trim the tips an eighth of an inch apiece; test fly to see if you note any improvement in vertical performance and, if so, trim another eighth until you no longer get improved performance. The smaller diameter unloads the engine a bit and gives it more breathing room when in hard corners or flying the horsepower maneuvers...verticals, hourglass, overhead and four leaf.

I realize there is a school of thought that believes that more diameter is always better. I don't fall into that camp and often run engines with less diameter than others using the same sort of power train. If for no other reason the lesser diameter reduces precession and P-factor effects, both of which effect "yaw" which, in turn, effects line tension which just happens to be the subject at hand.

If you can devote a prop to the test it could provide some dividends and allow you to get rid of the rudder offset which would be a good thing, IMHO!

Ted Fancher

p.s. I'm embarassed to tell you how much the original Trivial Pursuit now weighs after 22 years of dings, repairs and soaking up oil. Let's just say it's more than yours, uses a smaller displacement engine and much smaller prop (originally a .40VF with which it placed second at its first Nats) and still can fly very well when the pilot gets his "stuff" in order

"snip!"

Bregards,

Marlus

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2013, 07:34:27 AM »

Master Ted,

I´m really grateful of having received these precious advice. I consider myself having some good information now, since I often get to be criticized around here for not using 14 or 15 inch props, justified by using a big bore engine. There is certain mood for using European material here, and so settling for large diameter props such as the Rainbows seems to be a general rule. And honestly I don´t have nearby much of qualified arguments to hear and try, so I was a little stuck to my own ways... :/ and since CF props are an expensive material for us Brazilians, we gotta be somehow conservative in trying different things. But now I can follow your steps in a more directional positive path! \o/

Regarding your plane, I take my hat off cause I´m sure a plane that stands for 22 years and still performs greatly is a winner indeed, so it won´t be oil and repairs that will bother it! And talking to Robby, he told me once that you and Bob Hunt were kind of improving performance by trying to add weight to certain area of the ship, so I´m right to have a heavy ship already!

And finally, since I was a teenager I dreamed of someday talking to you, as well as receiving some precious advice or even flying together. Well, now that I´ve built 3 TPs (think I like this plane...haha), I would be honored if you could see any of them. It´ll be a great satisfaction to meet you personally on any champs. If you want to see the other two, please access this link to my facebook album, cause I´m out of town and don´t have the pics in this company´s computer.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1950721520871.2108605.1027617792&type=3

The red one you saw in the vid was the first one (with a PA 61), than last year the blue (RJtt 67) and currently, this yellow one (Rjtt 76).

Hope you like´m and please, if you have any comments, questions or any stuff I do wanna hear, just "shoot me a line!!"

Tks again

Best regards,

Marlus

dale gleason · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2013, 11:03:39 AM »

There's some nice things in your video that folks can learn from. "Back-flipping" the prop to start high powered motors with sharp props is talked about a lot....here you show how it is done. First time I saw it was Bob Gieseke back flipping his big Bear, I thought it was magic. It is a must with large modern engines, they like to start this way, driving the engine through compression on the "flip" is asking for trouble, in my opinion...
Thank you for all the effort for this video,

dale gleason

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2013, 12:15:47 PM »

Hello, Dale!!

Nice of you to notice that tiny detail of starting the engine from the spinner! It sure´s a lot safer and fun to do, since the PAs starts really easy!!

Unfortunately I have some close friends who suffered from these carbon blades. Mines, I remove all possible sharpness. And believe me, when it´s cold and rainy down here or even the motor refuses to start naturally, I turn the plane upside down and use the chicken stick.

And thanks for watching the vid!!

Take care

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2013, 04:01:48 PM »

Quote from: Marlus Lago on April 05, 2013, 07:34:27 AM

Master Ted,

I´m really grateful of having received these precious advice. I consider myself having some good information now, since I often get to be criticized around here for not using 14 or 15 inch props, justified by using a big bore engine. There is certain mood for using European material here, and so settling for large diameter props such as the Rainbows seems to be a general rule. And honestly I don´t have nearby much of qualified arguments to hear and try, so I was a little stuck to my own ways... :/ and since CF props are an expensive material for us Brazilians, we gotta be somehow conservative in trying different things. But now I can follow your steps in a more directional positive path! \o/

Regarding your plane, I take my hat off cause I´m sure a plane that stands for 22 years and still performs greatly is a winner indeed, so it won´t be oil and repairs that will bother it! And talking to Robby, he told me once that you and Bob Hunt were kind of improving performance by trying to add weight to certain area of the ship, so I´m right to have a heavy ship already!

And finally, since I was a teenager I dreamed of someday talking to you, as well as receiving some precious advice or even flying together. Well, now that I´ve built 3 TPs (think I like this plane...haha), I would be honored if you could see any of them. It´ll be a great satisfaction to meet you personally on any champs. If you want to see the other two, please access this link to my facebook album, cause I´m out of town and don´t have the pics in this company´s computer.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1950721520871.2108605.1027617792&type=3

The red one you saw in the vid was the first one (with a PA 61), than last year the blue (RJtt 67) and currently, this yellow one (Rjtt 76).

Hope you like´m and please, if you have any comments, questions or any stuff I do wanna hear, just "shoot me a line!!"

Tks again

Best regards,

Marlus

Hi Marius,

I did, indeed, follow your link and loved the colorful TPs! You sure know how to make them pretty. when it comes to "colors" us Norte Americanos are running fast to catch up with our friends down south. I'll send you an FB friend request and you can check out some of the pictures of mine over the years in my airplanes album. Not as colorful as yours by a long shot but there were a couple of color schemes that you might like.

Re the prop business. Be aware I could be all wet as I've no experience with engines bigger than the PA and RoJett .61s I used in my TPs following several years with .40 and .46 OS VFs. Having said that, however...

Since I'm not a trained student of aerodynamics (just a lowly pilot for nearly 60 years) I've found it beneficial to consider potential benefits of ideas I come up with by thinking in extremes. In this case, for instance, I'm reasonably sure a 6X3 nylon prop off an .049 would be too small to do a good job and that a prop ripped off of a big Stearman biplane at the local airport would be too bit too big!

This proves to me that props can be too big...or they can be too small. In this case the extremes are obviously "one of each" case. Somewhere in between the two you'll start finding props that will, however, do the job, some better than others. You can extrapolate that "among" those that "can" do the job there is, somewhere in the mix, there will be only a few that really make the plane come alive. And one is likely to best suit the pilot/airplane team. Finding your "mate" can pay dividends.

Given adequate power to turn that prop (remember, the TPs have been flown to US championships with everything from .40s to .75s in them) the thing that will make the biggest difference is the prop because it is the interface between the airplane and the medium in which it performs. There is unlikely to be a vast difference in the "best" prop for a given airplane based solely on the cubic inches that drives it. The extra cubic inches will work less hard to do so but it is unlikely that they will need a bigger prop to do so. If they need a bigger prop to run right they are probably too big for the airplane (like putting the big Pratt and Whitney out of the Stearman into a TP...it's obvious that's not the way to go!).

Marius, I hope that someday we will get to meet and maybe even fly together although my TP log book hasn't been getting much thicker in recent years. Thanks for building and enjoying the TPs. It's an honor to have a fine modeler and flier do so.

Ted

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2013, 05:07:38 PM »

Master Ted,

The honor is totally mine!! Such a great fluid and modern design like your TP gives me great pleasure to work in!
I´m sure I would be amazed if you´d build others. Hope this day and the day we´ll meet and fly come very soon!
Can´t wait to see the evolution of the TPs over the years in your pics, as well as exchange finishing results and materials.

And you know what, it all makes sense now. Like you said, if the prop is a little smaller, the engine will be capable of producing more power when needed, especially overhead and vertically. Why didn´t I think of it before???

I´ve tried a 13,5" previously to the 13,75", which BTW did not happen to make any difference... Think I´ll cut it down to 13,25" and will post you the news further.

Regarding the engine itself (Ro-Jetts), back in the days did you happen to make any modifications or use to run them stock, like mine?

Rafael Gonzalez · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2013, 05:09:26 PM »

Did anyone noticed that they have a C/L area with seats for the spectators and a protective fence?

When can I move there?

Here in MA, any time we fly in a public area with no one around, we have the cops within minutes...

I ONCE WAS FLYING AN ELECTRIC GLIDER AND GOT THE USUAL TOO MUCH NOISE SERMON FROM THE POLICEMAN, THEN I SHOWED HIM MY ELECTRIC GLIDER. HE SHOOK HIS HEAD AND WALKED AWAY. I want to go there MARLUS...

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2013, 06:16:36 PM »

Hello Rafael!!
Well, you are pretty much welcome to come around, man!! You know, this complex is indeed one of the few best (if not the only) stuff we can be proud here... It was built a long time ago and frequently this area is desired to be taken by politics and luckily we still have it available. It´s located nearby Ibirapuera, the most meaningful park in Sao Paulo.
However, it is tricky to fly-in. Due to the high altitude of Sao Paulo, atmospheric pressure is lower than at a sea-level city. So, it´s like driving on a wet track! Lol gotta have the guts to perform at this track!
Hey, when you said MA, you meant Massachusetts? Cause I lived in Boston a long time ago, but wasn´t involved to F2B at the time... Anyway, feel yourself invited to come over and fly with us whenever you want!! Once I heard Bene saying he´d try to have the F2B World Cup here. So, lets see if this day will come soon!

All the best buddy!

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2013, 07:44:51 PM »

Quote from: Rafael Gonzalez on April 05, 2013, 05:09:26 PM

Did anyone noticed that they have a C/L area with seats for the spectators and a protective fence?
When can I move there?
Here in MA, any time we fly in a public area with no one around, we have the cops within minutes...

I ONCE WAS FLYING AN ELECTRIC GLIDER AND GOT THE USUAL TOO MUCH NOISE SERMON FROM THE POLICEMAN, THEN I SHOWED HIM MY ELECTRIC GLIDER. HE SHOOK HIS HEAD AND WALKED AWAY. I want to go there MARLUS...

The cop probably prefers IC powered models?

Steve

Peter Grabenstein · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2013, 02:59:28 AM »

Quote from: Robby Hunt on March 31, 2013, 05:36:43 PM

Marlus is THE MAN!

Hi

since a few days, this very nice video is blocked by youtube in Germany because music copyrights.
I like to share this video with my CL buddys over here in Germany.
Does anyone has a clue ? ......Gorilla or CA or both,?? grin.
Thanks a lot for your advice.

Peter

PerttiMe · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2013, 05:28:06 AM »

A version without music would be nice.

Generally, I'm not convinced that adding music makes everything better.

Marlus Lago · « **Reply #29 on:** April 06, 2013, 08:19:44 AM »

Hi guys,

Sorry it didn´t work for you. It´s strange, cause our folks in the Eastern side could see it.

Anyway, I have already posted a version without music, which can be found on youtube as well. I think it was filmed in the same day. And it´s funnier!

Here goes the link:

Enjoy!

Peter Grabenstein · « **Reply #30 on:** April 06, 2013, 11:59:10 PM »

Quote from: Marlus Lago on April 06, 2013, 08:19:44 AM

Hi guys,

Sorry it didn´t work for you. It´s strange, cause our folks in the Eastern side could see it.

Anyway, I have already posted a version without music, which can be found on youtube as well. I think it was filmed in the same day. And it´s funnier!

Here goes the link:

Enjoy!

WOW !!!

Obrigado Marlus for your help.

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/386031-Video-My-friend´s-quot-TRIVIAL-quot

http://fesselflug.phpbb8.de/fotos-videos-f34/video-friend-trivial-t717.html

saludos Peter