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Author Topic: Brodak Nobler  (Read 5944 times)

Offline Sam Laughery

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Brodak Nobler
« on: January 24, 2008, 08:29:56 AM »
I've just started building a Brodak Nobler kit and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for modifications that might make it easier to build, stronger, lighter, faster, fly better, etc.  I built one a few years ago and it was great but I'm always open to suggestions.

Any and all comments are appreciated. #^ y1 #^ y1 #^ y1  Thanks.

Sam

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 09:01:24 AM »
You have no idea how strong that plane is. I had a situation where, when the pushrod broke, I drilled mine straight in on asphalt and, sheared the motor mount bolts, drove the motor right through the firewall, bent the crankshhaft and in general obliterated everything from the lead edge forward. Everything aft of the lead edge was unharmed.

Forget light - that plane flies much better when in the low 40s.

Here's something I posted a while back:

“I bought a Brodak Nobler kit a few years back (around 1998) and built it pretty much to print. The kit was one of the best quality I’ve ever seen – every part was exactly as it should be. I set up the control ratios and CG exactly as called out on the plan and it weighed 34 ounces with a Fox .35 and a decent finish. When I described it to George (Aldrich)  he said it would fly like a pig!
 
Taken back a bit, I asked him to elaborate. He said that the main problem was that it was too light: It will not groove, will jump on any square pullouts and will balloon and bounce on landing.

Figuring “what does he know?” (Actually we had become pretty good friends by that time), I decided that it would be fine as built so I took it out to have some fun.

It would not groove, jumped in pullouts, and ballooned and bounced on landings! I tried narrowing the handle line spacing, adding a bit of nose weight and playing with outboard weight. NOTHING worked. I flew exactly as George said it would. I let a local expert flyer try it and he could not make it perform. While preparing to take it to a swap meet with a $5.00 price tag on it, I mentioned the issue to someone else and he just said, “it’s too light – period. It will never fly properly”.  I also read that some people had reduced the amount of flap movement and the plane improved. My original Green-Box Nobler was quite nose-heavy so I decided that if I was going to add weight, why not put some in the nose.

So, here’s what I wound up doing: I shortened the nose by about 1/2 inch, reduced the flap movement to about 75% of the elevator movement, put on a somewhat heavy aluminum spinner, an APC prop, a larger tank and a Fox muffler.  I added tail weight until it balanced about ½” forward of the suggested point. All that and removing all the tip weight did the trick. Total weight came up to around 43 ounces I can now say that the Fox .35 powered Brodak Nobler with the small modifications I performed has turned out to be one of the best flying stunt planes I’ve ever owned.

Bob Z.”

Offline Leester

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 11:53:43 AM »
Come on Sam dig in your pockets and get Windy's DVD set. I think they cover about everything.
Leester
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Offline Sam Laughery

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 05:21:58 PM »
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info.  Mine was about 38 oz and at my skill level I thought it flew pretty well.  I crashed it just before the Flyin last year when something in the control system locked while trying to pull out on the reverse wingover.  It was pretty well crushed and left me without a plane for old time or classic.  That one was covered with ultra coat.  I'm going to paint this one.  Is the one you spoke of in your post the brown one I've seen you fly a few times in Carmichaels?  I thought that had more than a 35 in it.  It is a good flyer.  I had a fox 35 in the one I built about 1960 and still have but I'm putting a B40 in this one.  Leester, as far as the Windy video, I've seen some of it.  I'm not concerned about being able to build it just thought I might pick up a couple of tips.

Sam

Offline Leester

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 07:13:55 PM »
I figured as much, was an attempt at humor.
Leester
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Offline Alan Buck

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 06:26:10 AM »
HEY  SAM  glue one piece at time till done cover with silkspan and dope. and bring to Huntersville in May. hope to see you there if not there BRODAK'S  ALAN    ps keep weight around 40 oz's
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2008, 07:38:49 AM »
Hi, Sam - yep, that's the one you saw.

It was powered by a STOCK  Fox .35 and flew beautifully once I fattened it up.

A few people asked me what I did to the engine to make it run so well. Actually, nothing more than a long carefull break-in.
I'm not sure what year it is but it's the first Fox .35 to feature for and aft muffler lugs. I found it new in the box at a swap meet.

I broke it in on Powermaster 5/22/50-50 and then flew it with 10/22/50-50.
I switched to the Brodak 10/23/50-50 and now I use that in ALL my engines except for the sparkers.
I know that a lot of people claim that running castor/synthetic will ruin a Fox but I've proven that this is NOT the case.

I used a stock VECO type tank with simple non-uniflow venting.

60 foot lines, Hot-Rock handle.

I've used the Nobler as a test bed for a number of differrent engines but I've decided to refinish it and go back to the Fox 35.

Bob Z.










Offline Ward Van Duzer

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2008, 08:34:44 AM »
My spies tell me George's was 47 oz.

W.
I hate spelling errors, you mess up 2 letters and you are urined!

Don't hesitate to ask dumb questions.
They are easier to handle than dumb mistakes!  Ward-O AMA 6022

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2008, 09:03:04 AM »
Ward - good point. George did in fact tell me that his best flying Noblers were in the 45 to 50 ounce range!

And, as far as I know, all flew with Fox .35s.

Bob Z.

Offline Sam Laughery

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2008, 06:42:19 PM »
Hi Allen,

Good to hear from you.  I glued a couple of pieces today.  I had forgotten how many blocks there are.  Lots of carving ahead.  I'll see you in Huntersville and Carmichaels.

Sam

Offline Alan Buck

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 08:14:25 AM »
HI SAM you can call Windy for some molded parts and a cowl. not sure of price but it will be and stronger and easier. Alan
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Dave Nyce

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 08:53:49 AM »
Hi Bob.  You said you use Brodak 10/23/50-50 .  Does Brodak sell fuel?  I couldn't find it on their website.

Dave
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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2008, 07:14:42 AM »
Hi, David - yes, Brodak carries a good assortment of fuels.

I evaluated them in many engins, from early ringed vintage engines up to modern 4 strokes.

I now use Brodak fuel exclusively.

Bob Z.

Offline Dave Nyce

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 11:26:00 AM »
Bob, I can't seem to find fuels on the Brodak website.  Can you tell me how to find them?  Thanks.

Dave
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 11:42:30 AM »
I've just started building a Brodak Nobler kit and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for modifications that might make it easier to build, stronger, lighter, faster, fly better, etc.  I built one a few years ago and it was great but I'm always open to suggestions.

Any and all comments are appreciated. #^ y1 #^ y1 #^ y1  Thanks.

Sam

HI Sam

If you think the final weight will be  44 to 48 ounces use the controls and control surfaces teh size they are on teh plans. If you think you will build a very light ship  38 to 42 ounces  you will need to trim the flaps down in size...maybe take 1\8 inch off of the span, or you can use a adjustable  slider rear elevator horn to take out some of  the flap travel (by increasing the elevator throw).
I also do not know if it comes with Johns 4 inch light bellcrank but I would highly recommend you using it instead of a 3 inch one
Of course the last thing is make sure it is stiff and you use a engine that has a dead reliable run , and good power to weight

Regards
Randy

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2008, 12:24:04 PM »
Hi, Randy - mine came with a 3 inch bellcrank and I'm pleased with it.

Regarding the control movement, the reduced throw on the flaps worked better with the increased weight. As I recall, the instructions called for a ratio of 1:1.

George stated that 1:1 was OK but 75% made it a bit more user friendly.

Bob Z.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2008, 12:38:31 PM »

George stated that 1:1 was OK but 75% made it a bit more user friendly.

Bob Z.

HI Bob

I agree with that..  and Yes, that was the reason for the slider rear horn, if it is going to be light, it will let him reduce the flap to elevator ratio.
The 3 or 3.5 inch bellcranks will work OK, however the 4inch , I recommended will allow him to have a control system that is not too fast....a problem he could get into if he has to slow the flaps down, and I have seen many that had too fast controls but never one that was  too slow on the handle,  you would need a pretty small spacing to get that with a 3 inch

Regards
Randy

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2008, 02:12:07 PM »
Hi, Randy - I agree on the 4-inch bellcranks. They really smooth things out.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, all planes sized 35 and up will use them.

Bob Z.

Offline Leo Mehl

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2008, 06:07:07 PM »
I have built both versions of this Nobler and I actually prefer the Green Box vetrsion. I dont like the two and a half inch longer inboard wing. My Brodak Nobler is quit heavy so am running a Super Tigre 46. It flys good but if you have to stretch the landing the outboard wing Has a tendancy to fly low. If you land it fast it's OK.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brodak Nobler
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2008, 07:50:43 AM »
George stated that 1:1 was OK but 75% made it a bit more user friendly.

Bob Z.

HI Bob

I agree with that..  and Yes, that was the reason for the slider rear horn, if it is going to be light, it will let him reduce the flap to elevator ratio.
The 3 or 3.5 inch bellcranks will work OK, however the 4inch , I recommended will allow him to have a control system that is not too fast....a problem he could get into if he has to slow the flaps down, and I have seen many that had too fast controls but never one that was  too slow on the handle,  you would need a pretty small spacing to get that with a 3 inch

Regards
Randy

Hi Randy,

I found it really *funny* that Kent couldn't fly my Parrott P-47 "Big Bear". ;D

It has the original 3" BC and Veco size horns.  It was just too quick for what he had been flying.  AS you know, I'm not real good, but in some ways I think it is not a bad idea for those who have learned to fly on those old *quick* controls, since the *new slower* controls make things a lot easier.  Adjusting to the slower controls DOES take some time, though.
Big Bear <><

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