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Author Topic: Center pad  (Read 2754 times)

Offline john e. holliday

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Center pad
« on: April 27, 2019, 03:32:04 PM »
Well with Dave and Kevin's help/work the old DOC has no excuse for stumbling around in the center of the circle.  Dave's grand sons and daughter were there also.  She brought the lunch.  The grand sons also finished driving in the remaining posts I had set.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2019, 03:35:07 PM »
More pictures.   I'm tired for some reason and they did the work. ???

Had to gt picture of Mom in here. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2019, 03:38:26 PM »
More pictures.   I'm tired for some reason and they did the work. ???

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2019, 03:48:01 PM »
Looks good.  I put a center marker in the middle of my circle in my field, but it's just 14" in diameter, it's not a thing to walk on.
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Offline James Lee

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 04:26:59 PM »
Doc and Dave
That is great news!!   Looking forward to flying there!!
Jim

Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 05:16:05 PM »
..
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 05:16:43 PM »
...
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 05:21:20 PM »
Jim come on over!  This will really improve the field and getting the last of the barrier posts in will keep it pretty well protected going forward so we can invest more in the turf again.
My added pix above:
Doc at Whitney’s chow line.
And Bryce helping Doc slamming in posts.
Doc isn’t the only tired one- and sunburnt.

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2019, 06:23:20 PM »
How many bags of concrete mix did it take, and were they 60 or 90 lb bags? I'm still looking forward to my concrete project...looks like 25 ea. 60 lb bags. I'd rather pay more to only lift 60 lb bags. At least I can use an electron powered cement mixer. No Li-POS tho!  n1 Steve
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2019, 06:40:42 PM »
Steve I figured 11 60# bags for 5' diameter x 3" thick.  I bought 13 bags in case.  Turns out we had 5 bags left over.  I had a bunch of granite countertop samples I threw in the hole since I thought I may have dug too deep and needed an excuse to get rid of the samples.  With about eight pcs. of re bar I think it will be strong enough-as long as we keep the 4X4 pickups out of the circle.  Also the original center block I placed when we first hacked the circle out of the weeds in 2014 was placed in the pad symbolically.

Dave
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Re: Center pad
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 01:48:09 PM »
 Somewhere in our discussions about it I recall that being brought up.  Finding one and then transporting , setting and leveling it wouldn’t be easy.  I grew up in house with a septic tank and the twice we dug it up I don’t remember that lid being very flat or smooth and it had two steel lift rings imbedded in the concrete sticking up.
As to size- for me at least the five foot is about the minimum space I need to move my feet around without having to worry about where my feet are in that overhead eight.  Also think that’s about what the rule book calls for.  We were having to fly standing in ruts and grass clods in the sand.  Always had to look down and set yourself before you could look up.... no more!!!!!

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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 01:56:42 PM »
   Last year we restored the center pads for the carrier circle at Buder Park. I think Fred C. from our club has pictures on the forum somewhere. The original has sunk and when digging out the area for a new pad, we found the old one and it  was about 3 foot in diameter. They had sliced off a length of spiral galvanized sewer pipe about 6 inches thick, put a length of 1/2" pipe in the middle, and filled in the rest with concrete. In discussions about how big to make the new one, we settled on 6 feet to give some "wandering" room for a carrier pilot. There was a secondary pad that we also restored, and it was about 8 or 9 feet in diameter,m and it was 65 to 70 feet from the deck center. We tried to level off the OD forms a bit lower than the center pipes, so as to have a gentle slope for water to run off. We made them both a little bit above grade also and back filled dirt up to the edge to help with drainage also. In making center pad or marking off a paved area for a center circle, I think they should be big enough to pick up with your peripheral vision, so you don't have to take your eyes off a model to get your orientation correct. For a pad, just don't leave a big ledge to trip over. We need to do something with the carrier deck, as it has sunk also, and from talking to those that have been around, it has already been over poured once already. I wonder if mud jacking would raise it up 6 inches or so??  Time does have it's effect on such things, so enjoy the fruits of your labor a whole bunch while it's nice and new!!
   Have a great time on it!
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2019, 02:18:59 PM »
Dan brings up a longer- term concern I have.  Our field is actually on an ancient part of the Kansas River bottom.  Up until a century or two ago it was under water.  The ground is almost pure sand or sandy loam.  ( I am convinced there is a sunken old river boat under the sand just off the west side of the circle- you can even see it on a satellite photo).  The Park Dept is digging a lake across the road.  It’s at least 75ft. deep and totally sand all the way down.  They also have a sand plant just north a half mile.  At some point this pad will settle.  That could mean laying a cap over it or jacking and injection under.  I recently watched sidewalks being lifted and leveled with liquid injection and it works slick.  Maybe it will go a while.  I’d be surprised if there will be anyone left using it to fly after I’m finished.

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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2019, 02:51:40 PM »
Thanks for the tips, guys. I’m about to pour one myself.

I like the idea of a symbolic fill item. Maybe I’ll mix the remainder of my Super-fil to give it a head start.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2019, 04:40:41 PM »
Howard I guess you could make the whole pad from SuperFil.   I just wouldn't want to have to clean out the mixer after.

Dave
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2019, 05:08:27 PM »
  Hey Dave;
     Buder Park is actually old river bottom, and the Meramac River is just about a half mile away in it's current channel. It floods occasionally, the Meramac has gotten high enough to close I-44 that runs East-West just to the south. But there have been LOTS of changes in the surrounding typography, I think it is called. Lots of earth has been moved, whole stone cliffs removed to make land available for development, and up stream in the Meramac River Valley, lots of development where lots of new housing developments, shopping centers and required parking lots, all let rain water move downstream in greater amounts and a heck of a lot faster. They built a levee on the north side of the river in Valley Park, and that is still being fought over and discussed as to whether it was built to the correct height and such. The end result, and is easy to understand, is that Buder WILL flood more often now, global warming of no. The control line circles are higher than the rest of the park, and don't get as much water on it as the R/C and what I call the "lower" areas of the park. Some think that the circles and square pad didn't sink, but the ground around them raised up from flood deposits, but I answer that this isn't the Mississippi River Delta! It's just old river bottom gumbo and a heck of a long way down to any bedrock. The decision was made to put a 2" cap on the square pad two years ago, something I was not in agreement to, because the square pad had sunk to below grade on the north side and water could no longer run off, and would pool in large areas. It was made worse several years ago when the Parks Department decided to fill in a shallow depression that was actually drainage for the area, including a section of it that was filled with 3" plus rock that made what I think is called a French drain. I think it was all over making it easy to mow grass, but now the water has no where to go. Lots of times decisions are made without thinking about the long term, but you can not fight Mother Nature and it's best to try and work with her. If your center pad shows signs of sinking in the very near future, you guys might want to consider one  of those companies that can shore up foundations by driving piers down to bedrock. It may take only one or two, but then the original one would be stabilized, and you could pour a new one about a foot or more bigger over that one, and back fill dirt up to it to remove any trip hazard. That all takes money, but in this day and age of Go-Fund-Me and such, and any other kind of financial begging you could do, it could be accomplished. And iot would be worth the effort and money because of all the other work you have already put into the site. It's just something to consider and think about as time marches on.
   Getting back to the square pad, at the time it was brought up about putting on a 2" overlay, I offered up the idea of investing in better landscaping for better drainage and another , less expensive method of paving the pad. They went ahead with the 2" cap at an expense of some $14,000, and did a crappy job. It started to shed gravel right away and needed to be sealed before the first year was up. It has already started to show major cracking also and those need to be addressed. I hope to be actively flying for anywhere between 10 to 20 years, and we'll see what happens, again, as time marches on. So even with a nice paved pad, you can still run into problems if money isn't spent wisely.
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2019, 05:11:51 PM »
Thanks for the tips, guys. I’m about to pour one myself.

I like the idea of a symbolic fill item. Maybe I’ll mix the remainder of my Super-fil to give it a head start.

   Hey Howard;
     It's kind of a tradition in my family, that if a new sidewalk or porch is installed at one of our houses, we inlay a horse shoe, with the open side "up" or pointing towards the house, for good luck. Maybe you could do the same sort of thing, but with a old EZ-Just handle or something! At least carve your and the wife's initials and hand prints!

    Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2019, 05:55:53 PM »
Well sort of the issue I was making about the lake and so far 75 or more feet down and pure sand-we'd have to get an oil drilling rig to get down to bedrock!  And in this case the thing is coming out of my pocket.  Even though it's park property they have no money (so they say) to do anything out here.  They do mow the whole place twice a year and I am told it costs $6000. each time to mow this area including the levee itself.  The latest Doc heard from the Corp of Engineers is that they don't think the levee will hold future floods and they plan to raise the levee.  Don't think it will bother the circle any.  I'm told the last time this area was flooded were the 1951 floods.  The existing river is about 1/4 mile away over the levee.  Not sure what narrowed the river in this area so drastically.  Could have been developments well up river in the past or even the big earthquake in the 1800's that changed the course of the nearby Missouri River.  That event is what beached the Steamship Arabia which was dug up out of a field about twenty years ago and is now a local museum attraction.

Dave
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2019, 06:09:35 PM »
Emmy and I got to fly at the Oklahoma City CL field a few years ago and was the only time we got to fly there.  The center pads were at least three inches above the ground and had man hole tubes sticking above the ground between the center pads and take off circle.  We were told about it.   Just had to make sure not to move around a lot.  I don't know how long this pad will stay at the level it is, but the block Dave put down years ago was still level with the ground.   It is now buried in the center pad.  Look closely and you can see it un der the rebar.  One thing going for the circle is that it does not hole water where the circle is.   There is area on the east and west sides that hold water after a heavy rain.  Dave probably remembers where the original circle was going to be.  That is where the east low spot is.  But at least we have a start and I have no excuse for sitting on my derriere. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Center pad
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 04:34:25 PM »
How can I pay back Dave and Kevin for the center pad.  Finally got to use it today.  Amazing how much easier it is to fly the plane. #^ #^ #^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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