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Author Topic: Cellulose glue?  (Read 10108 times)

Offline Bill Hummel

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Cellulose glue?
« on: March 25, 2023, 09:00:06 AM »
Sigment…gone!  Ambroid…gone!  What have you found that is similar?
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Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2023, 09:22:03 AM »
Sigment…gone!  Ambroid…gone!  What have you found that is similar?


Try "Duco" cement in a green tube at your local hardware store.

Cheers, Jerry

Online Dan Berry

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2023, 09:27:36 AM »
This is essentially Ambroid.
https://volareproducts.com/blog/?product=vps-am-droid-cement

It is fletching glue.

Offline Alexey Gorbunov

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2023, 09:46:19 AM »
Celluloid ping-pong balls with acethone.

Offline Massimo Rimoldi

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2023, 10:02:25 AM »
Celluloid ping-pong balls with acethone.

Celluloid ping-pong balls (such as photographic film, eyeglass frames, combs, etc.) are the memory of a distant past

Massimo
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 10:41:19 AM by Massimo Rimoldi »

Offline Chuck Matheny

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2023, 10:13:56 AM »
Celluloid ping-pong balls with acethone.

Outside of the fumes..what are the disadvantages of this type of glue..?
Is it sandable..?
Does dope attack it..?
Is Titebond a better choice..?
I believe Sigment is what I built my first 35 sized model with.
During the past few decades it's been 99% CA glue for me and I think my nasal cavities could use a break..because as they say.."when you can no longer smell it is when you need to stop using it".

Offline Alexey Gorbunov

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2023, 10:25:10 AM »
This is a classic nitrocellulose glue that I used 40 years ago at school.
Yes. It`s sandable.  If you use the normal sandpaper like Great planes.
Titebond loose weight after polimerisation ~65%. CA ~80%. This glue ~75% of weight.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2023, 10:25:14 AM »
This is essentially Ambroid.
https://volareproducts.com/blog/?product=vps-am-droid-cement

It is fletching glue.

   Fletching glue is available from several sources. Check to see if you have an archery shop in your town. Lots of archers make their own arrows. Fletching is gluing the feathers on the back end. They used to use Ambroid a lot also, but addapted.
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Offline Chuck Matheny

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2023, 10:33:50 AM »
This is a classic nitrocellulose glue that I used 40 years ago at school.
Yes. It`s sandable.  If you use the normal sandpaper like Great planes.
Titebond loose weight after polimerisation ~65%. CA ~80%. This glue ~75% of weight.

Thanks Alexey...
Are you saying that Titebond loses 65% of it's weight once it is dry..or that it loses 35% of it's weight...?
Same question for CA glue....[especially the thicker types]....I always assumed that none of it evaporated.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2023, 10:44:28 AM »
Alternatives:

https://www.amazon.com/UHU-HART-ADHESIVE-MODELLING-CEMENT/dp/B00L9HI16I
https://www.amazon.com/Duco-Cement-Multi-Purpose-Household-Glue/dp/B0000A605H

The biggest disadvantages are extreme shrinkage as it dries, and absolutely no "grab", so you have to hold the joint together for almost the entire drying time, usually with pins.

     Brett


Offline Alexey Gorbunov

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2023, 11:01:44 AM »
Thanks Alexey...
Are you saying that Titebond loses 65% of it's weight once it is dry..or that it loses 35% of it's weight...?
Same question for CA glue....[especially the thicker types]....I always assumed that none of it evaporated.
Weight loss. Thick CA lose weight less. Actual for medium and thin CA. Epoxies do not lose weight in any way.


Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2023, 11:31:17 AM »
The biggest disadvantages are extreme shrinkage as it dries, and absolutely no "grab", so you have to hold the joint together for almost the entire drying time, usually with pins.

Which are both advantages in some situations - which is why I keep it around the shop.

Are you not double-gluing?  A double-glued joint sets enough to let it go almost immediately -- at least when I'm laminating balsa plywood, or building rubber-powered free flight models.  A single-glued joint either needs way too much cement or it's way weaker than you can achieve with proper technique.

(Note that for control line the only place I use Ambroid is for joints that are exposed to the surface, like joining LE sheeting, gluing up blocks for wingtips, and similar).
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2023, 11:32:36 AM »
Which are both advantages in some situations - which is why I keep it around the shop.

Are you not double-gluing?  A double-glued joint sets enough to let it go almost immediately -- at least when I'm laminating balsa plywood, or building rubber-powered free flight models.  A single-glued joint either needs way too much cement or it's way weaker than you can achieve with proper technique.

(Note that for control line the only place I use Ambroid is for joints that are exposed to the surface, like joining LE sheeting, gluing up blocks for wingtips, and similar).


I know how to operate glue.

Brett

Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2023, 11:33:00 AM »
Search on celluloid glue.  Luthiers also use it -- I think it's mostly used for inlay, but I'm not a luthier.
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Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2023, 11:34:53 AM »

I know how to operate glue.

Brett

Well, I figured you did, but I stick 1/16" bits together all the time with a lot fewer pins than you'd need if the glue wasn't grabbing immediately.

I've even been found in a high-school gymnasium dabbing highly-diluted Ambroid onto a glue joint to adjust a stabilizer, right before yet another mediocre flight.
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Offline bill bischoff

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2023, 02:24:02 PM »
Testors tan tube and green tube wood glues seem to still be available.

Offline Chuck Matheny

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2023, 03:30:07 PM »
Which are both advantages in some situations - which is why I keep it around the shop.

Are you not double-gluing?  A double-glued joint sets enough to let it go almost immediately

That sounds like a good tip for using Sigment, Tim.
I've been building some kitchen cabinets with the help of Titebond [from a gallon I bought 30 years ago] and  using a thin coat on both sides of the glue joint  is almost like having a second pair of hands.

Offline frank williams

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2023, 08:03:43 PM »
~$30 for a quart ....
https://www.3riversarchery.com/nitrocellulose-adhesive-fletching-glue.html

Works Great ..... if it thickens just thin with acetone

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2023, 08:29:19 PM »
   For those who are wondering, "double cementing" is a technique to use with model cement to get better adhesion, mostly due to improving the otherwise poor joint penetration, particularly with Duco/SIG-Ment/UHU, which are fairly thick and quick drying. The idea is to smear glue on both sides of the joint/interface, let it mostly dry, then glue it again and assembled the joint. As noted, this does allow it to "stick" to some degree, but you cannot count on the "grab" of the glue holding it in place, any residual force will allow it to creep away over the first 30 minutes or so. So, double-glue or not, you have to hold all the parts rigidly together for the entire drying time. If it does creep, the joint strength will be extremely poor. It also takes longer to dry than you might think, it is probably not rigid for maybe 2 hours even at sea level, 90 degrees, and 20% humidity, and much longer if it is more humid.

   Note that the "fast drying" types are actually worse, it will thicken up and penetrate even less good than the regular drying types, and need pre-gluing even more. Ambroid is pretty thin to begin with, it penetrates better than the others, having originally been intended to be used like dope rather than wood adhesive (long before anyone had discovered balsa wood for models). It also has much lower solid content, so it is not as strong in the sense the glue itself is hard or rigid, although the joints generally work out better.

   I have seen references to double cementing in old books dating to the late 20's, so neither Tim nor I invented it. The same book told you could make your own glue by dissolving celluloid toothbrush handles in acetone, forming a cheap alternative to "Amber-oid" model cement. Toothbrushes haven't been made of celluloid since about the 40s, but I have successfully dissolved one of the orange translucent cheapie toothbrushes in lacquer thinner and gotten something like it. Then I used Hot Stuff to actually build with.

   Aliphatic or PVA glue, on the other hand, "grabs" so once you get it aligned and pinned/clamped, it will not creep after about the first minute or so, and the penetration (being water-based) is much better, and you should probably *not* double-glue it, or at least if you do, don't let it dry for more than a minute or two, because it wants to be liquid everywhere. Double-coating it only helps by letting it penetrate the wood better, but it's good enough for our purposes without special techniques.

     Brett
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 11:26:27 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2023, 10:02:57 PM »
   Double gluing is as old as the hills and twice as dusty!! All the old kits and magazines called it out for greater strength especially on dihedral joints on hand launched glider wings and leading/trailing edge joints. Anything where there was end grain, because it tended to suck it up like a sponge. So you applied it and rubbed it in with your finger. That's how the Ambroid got on your fingers that you needed to chew off while waiting for something to dry!! I think every Jetco kit, Guillows or other stick and tissue kit I ever built back then mentions it. I liked the challenge of trying to peel as large a piece of dried glue off my fingers as possible!!
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Offline Chuck Matheny

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2023, 12:44:50 AM »
   Double gluing is as old as the hills and twice as dusty!! All the old kits and magazines called it out for greater strength especially on dihedral joints on hand launched glider wings and leading/trailing edge joints. Anything where there was end grain, because it tended to suck it up like a sponge. So you applied it and rubbed it in with your finger. That's how the Ambroid got on your fingers that you needed to chew off while waiting for something to dry!! I think every Jetco kit, Guillows or other stick and tissue kit I ever built back then mentions it. I liked the challenge of trying to peel as large a piece of dried glue off my fingers as possible!!
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Dan...you probably knew that scrubbing your hands in hot water would remove the glue too...I think you just enjoyed chewing it off.... LL~

Offline John Park

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2023, 10:09:00 AM »
No balsa cement?  That's terrible!  We're lucky in Britain because two of the old brands I used as a kid in the 1950s are still freely available - Humbrol and HMG.  Of course they now cost an absolute fortune, but at least they're there (in the 1950s, a small tube cost sixpence - about a dime!).  In my archery days we fletched our aluminium arrows (Easton 24SRT-X, made in the USA, were the best) with a stronger, slower-setting cellulose cement called Durofix, which in the days before epoxy we favoured for use on hardwood and ply, but that hasn't been available for many years.  I still prefer balsa cement for certain applications such as chuck gliders - pre-cementing, as we call it, is as essential for a strong joint as it ever was, even though I can no longer hurl a chuck glider with anything like the vigour of my youth.
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Online Mark Gerber

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2023, 01:07:46 PM »
I found a product similar to Ambroid and Sigment on Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. It's called Fab-Tac. A friend ordered a pint and seemed happy with it. He put some in a tube and mailed it to me. The test pieces of balsa I glued were fine. Color is clear. Consistency is a little thinner than Ambroid or Sigment.  It should be a suitable replacement. I'm not in the build stage on a plane so I haven't tried a lot of it yet. From the Aircraft Spruce and Specialty website:

"This nitrocellulose type lacquer cement is used to cement aircraft synthetic and cotton fabrics, tapes, and grommets to fabric, cement aircraft fabric to plywood and metal in airplane construction and for attaching upholstery and soundproofing to cabin interiors. It is an excellent all-purpose cement for use on model airplanes. ..."

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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2023, 01:35:21 PM »
I found a product similar to Ambroid and Sigment on Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. It's called Fab-Tac. A friend ordered a pint and seemed happy with it. He put some in a tube and mailed it to me. The test pieces of balsa I glued were fine. Color is clear. Consistency is a little thinner than Ambroid or Sigment.  It should be a suitable replacement. I'm not in the build stage on a plane so I haven't tried a lot of it yet. From the Aircraft Spruce and Specialty website:

"This nitrocellulose type lacquer cement is used to cement aircraft synthetic and cotton fabrics, tapes, and grommets to fabric, cement aircraft fabric to plywood and metal in airplane construction and for attaching upholstery and soundproofing to cabin interiors. It is an excellent all-purpose cement for use on model airplanes. ..."

Mark Gerber
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/09-17800.php


   $16 a pint is pretty cheap! I used to build all my airplanes with Ambroid exclusively, but I doubt I have used a pint in my entire 55-year career.

     Brett

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2023, 02:40:42 PM »

   $16 a pint is pretty cheap! I used to build all my airplanes with Ambroid exclusively, but I doubt I have used a pint in my entire 55-year career.

     Brett

You probably weren’t applying it with a 2” brush, either.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2023, 02:48:47 PM »
You probably weren’t applying it with a 2” brush, either.

  Nope, either out of the spout, or with the little plastic spreader they put on top of the cap!

      Brett

Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2023, 04:31:54 PM »
I found a product similar to Ambroid and Sigment on Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. It's called Fab-Tac. A friend ordered a pint and seemed happy with it. He put some in a tube and mailed it to me. The test pieces of balsa I glued were fine. Color is clear. Consistency is a little thinner than Ambroid or Sigment.  It should be a suitable replacement. I'm not in the build stage on a plane so I haven't tried a lot of it yet. From the Aircraft Spruce and Specialty website:

"This nitrocellulose type lacquer cement is used to cement aircraft synthetic and cotton fabrics, tapes, and grommets to fabric, cement aircraft fabric to plywood and metal in airplane construction and for attaching upholstery and soundproofing to cabin interiors. It is an excellent all-purpose cement for use on model airplanes. ..."

Mark Gerber
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/09-17800.php

Could be a good club or group-of-friends purchase if you also bought some of these and loaded them up:
https://www.dickblick.com/products/empty-aluminum-paint-tubes/
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Offline Bill Hummel

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2023, 01:10:23 PM »
Thanks guys for all the info!  Went to the local Agway, $4 for a tube of Duco. Seems to work just fine!
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2023, 02:23:59 PM »
Thanks guys for all the info!  Went to the local Agway, $4 for a tube of Duco. Seems to work just fine!

   As far as I can tell, Duco and SIG-Ment were literally the same thing. My calibrated nose tells me they smell the same, and I am sure that SIG does not have it's own chemical plant to make it. My guess - subject to other information -  is that they both come from the same source.

  They are OK. As noted above, they really need double-cementing to ensure good penetration into the wood and since they are generally thicker, need it more than does Ambroid. I carry around a bottle of Duco cement in my tool box for sticking things down that come loose, most recently, I put it on the wrap on my flying lines when it started coming loose at the Southwest Regionals. 15 minutes at 70 degree in the desert, good to go.

     Brett

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2023, 03:00:12 PM »
Ambroid used to have toluene (toluol) in it.  I think the gumment made them remove it.  I wrote to Ambroid to ask them if they put it back in, now that kids have moved on to fentanyl.  A guy at Ambroid told me that they never changed their formula.  I take a syringe, fill it with toluene, and squirt it into my Sigment tube from time to time. 

On the advice of a Hunt (I thought it was Bob, but he said it was Robby) I got some UHU.  I squirt toluene into it, too. 
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2023, 06:37:53 PM »
   As far as I can tell, Duco and SIG-Ment were literally the same thing. My calibrated nose tells me they smell the same, and I am sure that SIG does not have it's own chemical plant to make it. My guess - subject to other information -  is that they both come from the same source.

  They are OK. As noted above, they really need double-cementing to ensure good penetration into the wood and since they are generally thicker, need it more than does Ambroid. I carry around a bottle of Duco cement in my tool box for sticking things down that come loose, most recently, I put it on the wrap on my flying lines when it started coming loose at the Southwest Regionals. 15 minutes at 70 degree in the desert, good to go.

     Brett

    I'm pretty sure that SIG packaged their own glue, SIGMENT, but bought it in bulk. Glenn designed and built the machine to fill the tubes. I haven't used Duco enough to compare and don't have any SIGMENT on hand to compare it with either, but you may be correct. Duco Household Cement was Mike Keville's preferred brand of glue for free flight and other small models.
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    Dan McEntee

  PS to add; Testors still makes their two formulas of solvent based glue. The green tube, and the brown tube that is 'extra fast" drying. Most old free flighters kept the brown tube in their field box for quick repairs of frame work and for repairing torn tissue. O stopped by the hobby shop Sunday while near there to check and they had two brand new displays of each, $4.99 a tube for 5/8 ounce.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2023, 05:16:53 PM »
This is essentially Ambroid.
https://volareproducts.com/blog/?product=vps-am-droid-cement

It is fletching glue.
Dan on your mentioning this I ordered some and tried it today.  I think it works well.  It reminds me greatly of Ambroid in color and very thin consistency.  It can be pretty runny so find a bottle with a small, very small tip to put it in.  We fashioned a glue tip on a plastic mustard/ketchup squeeze bottle.  It was also dry enough to lift from the board and continue work within 30-45 minutes.  It won't be as gap filling as Sigment so be careful on the fit of parts.  So far so good.  We still have 8-10 tubes of Sigment here but I'll use both and get a better comparison.  Thanks!

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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2023, 08:30:06 PM »
I found a product similar to Ambroid and Sigment on Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. It's called Fab-Tac. A friend ordered a pint and seemed happy with it. He put some in a tube and mailed it to me. The test pieces of balsa I glued were fine. Color is clear. Consistency is a little thinner than Ambroid or Sigment.  It should be a suitable replacement. I'm not in the build stage on a plane so I haven't tried a lot of it yet. From the Aircraft Spruce and Specialty website:

"This nitrocellulose type lacquer cement is used to cement aircraft synthetic and cotton fabrics, tapes, and grommets to fabric, cement aircraft fabric to plywood and metal in airplane construction and for attaching upholstery and soundproofing to cabin interiors. It is an excellent all-purpose cement for use on model airplanes. ..."

Mark Gerber
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/09-17800.php
Ok so I got this one.   I'd describe it just the same as the other and it works well.  I may end up using this one in the long run if for no other reason I already order dope and stuff from Aircraft Spruce so it will save some cash with combined shipping.....Pre-gluing with this on end grain or quarter grain joints will be especially necessary because it really soaks in.......

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Offline John Park

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2023, 09:03:07 AM »
UHU Hart (i.e. hard) is also easy to come by in Britain and Europe, and is indistinguishable from traditional balsa cement.  It's quite different from ordinary UHU.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2023, 09:54:08 AM »
Some one mentioned the weight of the glues.  A bottle of CA in my local hobby shop has botles of CA in i,2 and 4 ounce bottles.  Each of them are only half full of liquid.   A tube of regular glue comes in 4 ounce tube.   Haven't seen a can of glue for ages.  But the weights are they by volume or actual weight.  Also how much difference is there before and after a glue cures/dries?  To me I remember building an RC plane using only the CA glues.   Not enough weight to thnk of with the CA. D>K
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2023, 11:50:03 AM »
Some one mentioned the weight of the glues.  A bottle of CA in my local hobby shop has botles of CA in i,2 and 4 ounce bottles.  Each of them are only half full of liquid.   A tube of regular glue comes in 4 ounce tube.   Haven't seen a can of glue for ages.  But the weights are they by volume or actual weight.  Also how much difference is there before and after a glue cures/dries?  To me I remember building an RC plane using only the CA glues.   Not enough weight to thnk of with the CA. D>K

    Model cement is something like 75% or more solvent by weight, so most of the weight of the liquid is lost when it dries. It more-or-less just like dope, only thicker.

    Brett

Offline John Park

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2023, 08:58:04 AM »
    Model cement is something like 75% or more solvent by weight, so most of the weight of the liquid is lost when it dries. It more-or-less just like dope, only thicker.

    Brett
As a kid in the 1950s, I read a few accounts in AeroModeller of models being assembled with thick dope instead of cement, presumably in the hope of saving a little weight.  Maybe it did some good...?
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Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2023, 09:48:18 AM »
As a kid in the 1950s, I read a few accounts in AeroModeller of models being assembled with thick dope instead of cement, presumably in the hope of saving a little weight.  Maybe it did some good...?

Dunno -- but in my brief period of hanging out with indoor free-flight types (before I realized I had time for stunt or free flight, not both) I got heavily indoctrinated into the use of thinned Duco.  I would think that if thick dope worked better, that's what they'd be using.

So while the general type is nitrocellulose, I'm sure there's detail differences in what additives are used, or solvent combinations, or molecular weight of the cellulose, or whatever.
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2023, 08:41:21 PM »
The Russians  %^@  put  quite a few DROPS of Castor Oil , into it . To PLASTISISE IT . Cording to a Commie Sirotkin Article .

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2023, 10:42:46 PM »
I listed two new tubes of Sig-Ment in the classifieds.
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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2023, 11:04:49 PM »
The Russians  %^@  put  quite a few DROPS of Castor Oil , into it . To PLASTISISE IT . Cording to a Commie Sirotkin Article .

  I am not sure about the atheistic prevert commies, but I think that is probably the only real difference - dope has plasticizer and model cement doesn't.

      Brett

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2023, 10:00:33 PM »
I defy anyone who knows how to use Ambroid or anything similar to show me a "double glued" joint on a Hand Launch Glider that's failed.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  Those joints are bullet-proof!

Dennis
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2023, 01:40:33 PM »
I defy anyone who knows how to use Ambroid or anything similar to show me a "double glued" joint on a Hand Launch Glider that's failed.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  Those joints are bullet-proof!

Dennis

   I stripped several on 18" gliders back in the day, including stripping off the little reinforcing wedge I had been putting over the LE at the center section. That was one of the first applications for which I used Hot Stuff.

    I doubt that now, 55 years later, it is likely to be an issue.

          Brett

Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2023, 02:13:14 PM »
    I doubt that now, 55 years later, it is likely to be an issue.

Maybe old fogey HLG catapult.
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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2023, 03:20:42 PM »
Maybe old fogey HLG catapult.

  Yes, catapult is definitely more appealing that it used to be. My arm still hurts from my two flights in WAM 5" HLG 30 years ago.

     Brett

Offline redout

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2023, 04:14:07 PM »
Sigment…gone!  Ambroid…gone!  What have you found that is similar?

This won't be of use to you unless you are in Australia. I am surprised it is still readily available today ( al least since the 70's ).

https://www.modelflight.com.au/c23-balsa-cement-50ml.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg7SkxuCT_gIVwg5yCh3YWwXBEAQYASABEgKD6_D_BwE

Online Dan Berry

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2023, 05:56:06 PM »
  Yes, catapult is definitely more appealing that it used to be. My arm still hurts from my two flights in WAM 5" HLG 30 years ago.

     Brett

CLG and HLG are vastly different from 30 years ago.
HLG doesn't hurt your arm anymore.

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2023, 06:00:15 PM »
I'm surprised that in the discussion of "double gluing" no one has mentioned the pin holes.  I think we actually called it "pre gluing", but then I can't remember my name some days.

Using a HLG glider as an example, we poked about a jillion pin holes in the ends of the pieces to be joined, then rubbed on 3 or 4 thin coats of Ambroid and let each coat dry.  The final joining of the parts didn't require much to keep the pieces in place while the glue dried.  Rubbing more glue on the tops and bottoms of the pieces finished it off.

The balsa on the glider wings I built this way would fail long before the glue joints.  Even 1/8" spruce fuselages split while the glue joints held.  Your own mileage may vary.

Dennis
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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2023, 06:39:24 PM »
Ambroid is what I used as a kid, and learned of double-gluing then. Then when I returned to the hobby in 2015, I was disappointed to learn it no longer existed. This lead to my exposure to Sigment.

I will say this model was all Sigment, and the tail was double-glued with pinholes as Mr. Dennis indicates. This plane crashed a few times before the last figure-9 was the last stunt it performed. That rudder tore a lot more off than just the rudder.

Since then, I've learned to let yellow glue (aliphatics) set long and hard so joints sand cleanly without rubbing off into little balls. Not better, not worse, just an alternative I would use.



« Last Edit: April 11, 2023, 03:21:17 PM by 944_Jim »

Offline Bill Hummel

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Re: Cellulose glue?
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2023, 10:53:10 AM »
Just used Duco on a silkspan tear, worked like Sigment! No problem at all!  Thanks again for all good info!
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