Author Topic: Newbie Help Wanted (Read 3304 times)

Dave Moritz · « **on:** April 04, 2016, 09:24:46 PM »

Hello All:

Noob here! I'm pretty much a sport flyer/motor head with an interest in diesel power. So what am I doing in this forum? I'd like to prevail upon the good folks here for some advice on behalf of my brother and myself.

Many years ago, my brother built and flew combat wings very competitively. After a long hiatus from C/L, he'd now like to try stunt flying. Being the good bro that I am, I'm helping him build a SIG Twister; we intend to power it with a new, old stock K&B .29 on 52-foot lines. As his skill improves, he suspects he'll need a higher-powered stunt engine and maybe longer lines. We've done some digging around, and there doesn't seem to be much on the C/L stunt engine market compared to years past.

And that's my question: What would you folks recommend for an engine upgrade when the time comes? He thinks he wants something around .40 size and he wants it to be new (he's not a fan of E-Bay) in the $100 to $150 range.

In the mean time, I'll get back to finishing up work on a sport model for my 2.5 KMD diesel engine!

Much obliged.

Dave Mo...

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2016, 09:47:20 PM »

You ask at a difficult time -- OS just discontinued the LA line, and the LA 25 or LA 46 were the two best candidates. What's left are Chinese engines (which is probably as risky as buying used off of eBay), OS (all of which are super-zoomie RC engines, none of which have been tried to see if they'll deliver a good stunt run), Enya (well regarded, but moderately hard to get -- ask Randy Smith), Stalker (ditto Enya, but they're purpose-built for CL stunt), and Aviastar engines from Brodak (which I know nothing about).

I bought an OS 46AXII for my next big plane, but it's totally an experiment -- I may end up selling it on eBay and using the money to fund part of a Stalker, or to get a couple of used 46LAs. For a Twister, if you just felt bound and determined to go with a plain-ol' RC engine, getting a ball-bearing super-zoomie 25, like a Magnum or an OS 25AX may do -- but don't come crying to me if you can't make it work right.

The reason that engines are so hard to get these days is because electric power is just getting so easy. If you're not totally opposed to it, consider keeping the K&B as a museum piece and getting an electric power system from Brodak. You can get a whole system that's ready to plug in and go -- the price will shock you, but keep in mind that the charger will be good for years, and you won't be buying fuel all the time.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2016, 10:20:56 PM »

Mmmmhhmmmm on what Tim said. EBay might help locating an la-s series engine. However, this enya would be excellent. Check out this .25 and the .30 . plain bearing would be my choice. Hope this helps for engine choices. At least very easy, and no additional set up required. There's some good talk about this engine now on the forum. That's how i learned of it.
http://www.enya-engine.com/SS25EX_J.html

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2016, 10:32:45 PM »

Only slightly disagreeing with Dane, because you're not interested in eBay anyway -- I wouldn't rule out an RC version. For the time being, at least, you can buy venturis and needle valves from Tower Hobby, or get them from Randy Smith. Figure about $25 for needle and venturi.

Or figure that a hobby-grade lathe costs about $600, and you can make a venturi with hobby-grade machinist skills. Since a venturi costs around $10, that means that to pay for it you only need to make about -- uh, well, anyway, it's cool to have a lathe around the house.

Perry Rose · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2016, 05:23:51 AM »

Call Brodak and get the electric power package they have for their P-40B ARF electric. Get more than one battery. That is enough for the Twister and many other 40/46 size planes in the future. Use at least 60 foot lines on the Twister. Electric starts in sub zero and 100 degree plus temps. In between too.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2016, 06:00:13 AM »

Where do you live?

Shug Emery · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2016, 07:00:20 AM »

Looks to be an OS .46 for sale currently in Classified....http://stunthanger.com/smf/classifieds-92/os-la-46s-new-in-box/
Have fun ya'll.
Shug

david beazley · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2016, 07:02:26 AM »

You could always contact Eric Clutton, Dr Diesel, and get a
"Slimer"
http://www.cafes.net/doctordiesel/DDengines.htm

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2016, 07:25:10 AM »

I'm not sure why the concern with EBay. I have bought more than 100 engines there with very few bad ones. Look at the photos closely. If they don't look burned and have little or no screw marks on the mounting lugs they are likely new-even if 60 years old. Many came out of collections and estate sales and were never run. If it looks like junk don't buy it. And yes, it's no great thing to convert an RC engine to CL. If it mattered most manufacturers did not use different timing for RC. High volume production made that not too practical or nessessary. They just popped in a CL Venturi or a carb and put it in a box. Don't worry if there isn't a muffler. You can acquire that elsewhere.

Dave

ringmaster · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2016, 07:50:43 AM »

Hello, Dave Moritz, I have flying the Sig Twister and Sig Banshee over 40 years. I been using the Super Tiger engines for control line flying I think they are great engines and had very good luck with them too. Brodak also sells a 40 engine and a 25 size too I have also had good luck with them too. Thanks ringmaster.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2016, 10:49:22 AM »

Best bet is get in touch with Randy Smith and get one of his engines, There is also Tom Dixon that has some engines. What I have seen is some body knows engines are out of production and are getting bids on E-Bay that I think are way out of line. Now clue us in as to where you are. If you are in my area I can probably set you up with an engine.

DanielGelinas · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2016, 11:00:54 AM »

The brodak .40 is a great engine for the twister, or any other plane in that categorgy. I have one on my sig banshee and in my oriental.
Dan

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2016, 12:20:39 PM »

Fortunately we can find every thing we need in fairly good supply and condition on the inter-web

No need to be afraid of E-bay as long as you know exactly what you are looking for and first look at the many other places...RC groups, RC universe, Stuka Sunt, Stunt hanger, Cox Engine forum, Hobby People, Hobby King, Randy Smith, Brodak, Tower, and others

The last three years I have bought many NIB and lightly used engines with only one dud and that was a low cost smallish engine so no loose needing a lot of anguish

I did get burned sending $380 by Western Union to a guy in Russia for a Cyclon .049.... still a bad taste because he is a well known engine producer who got the money but failed to send me the engine and spare parts

I got two NIB Fox 35s fro less that $30 shipped but sort of think I would have been better buyng a few light used ones a tad cheaper and forgo the fuel cost of breaking in

goozgog · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2016, 01:07:25 PM »

Hello Dave,
Welcome back to Control Line!

  I say this to everyone who is returning with
old engines and people are beginning to snicker.....

anyway....

   Fuel isn't what it used to be. Modern R/C fuels will
destroy your K&B after just a few flights.
You will need to add castor and bring the oil content
up.

  I destroyed a new K&B .61, a Fox 35 and a ST.35
before I was told the awful truth.
Even drug store castor is better than nothing.

You can search for more info here at Stunthangar.

Cheers! - K.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2016, 01:11:43 PM »

Keith has a good point. If the engine uses the Old Metallurgy (iron on steel) then you need at least 25% oil, and more castor is better.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2016, 01:54:19 PM »

"I did get burned sending $380 by Western Union to a guy in Russia for a Cyclon .049.... still a bad taste because he is a well known engine producer who got the money but failed to send me the engine and spare parts."

IMO, if you get burned like this, and you cannot get this guy to make good on his promises, then it's not only "ok", but it's your duty to spread the word and prevent others from getting similarly burned...NAME NAMES!

The good thing about eBay is that a high rating is a real good indicator of what you're going to get, and most vendors there will do about anything to keep their rating high. But if you feel like you got screwed, go ahead and give the guy a bad rating...see above! It's pretty much your duty to give bad rating if they are unresponsive, ship crappy merchandise, etc. The one thing you really need to watch for is counterfeit products. I would NEVER buy fishing line off eBay, for example.

Again...please put your city and state in your profile. Your new flying buddy could be just down the road a short piece.

Steve

Sean McEntee · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2016, 07:23:23 PM »

My vote would be go ahead and go the electric route. They are cleaner, the model finish doesn't need to be fuel proof, over time the investment will be about the same.

Most importantly they are quieter. With the number of of easily-offended morons on the rise these days, an electric power plant would allow you to fly in more urban areas without bothering the neighbors.

I myself am considering the move to electric for all non-nostalgia models. I'll "keep it greasy" by running engines on older genre models, but I think it would be a good choice for the newer stuff.

Steve Riebe · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2016, 08:53:29 PM »

I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on your diesel powered ship. Just finished a Mercury Viper (British) for my A-M 15 diesel. Haven't had a chance to fly it yet

Steve Hines · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2016, 09:33:56 PM »

I just got a brodak 40 , John had 20 at Toledo. You can call and see what he has left. I also see that the evo 36 are in stock.

Steve

Dave Moritz · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2016, 09:30:05 AM »

Hello All:

Man-oh-man, just where to begin on acknowledging such great feedback?! I'll give it a shot.

First, I've updated my profile with the vital bits. Second, my good bro is reviewing this thread intensely and weighing its recommendations. I think his mind is open enough to reconsider E-Bay. Also, he's expressed interest in electric in the past. We especially appreciate the source for Brodak 40 and Evo 36 as one-line searches were useless. Also might have to look up R. Smith and T. Dixon. In breaking in the K&B .29, I've fortified the new fuel with castor oil in consideration of its vintage. There is something appealing about running "slimer" power on the older aircraft designs and electric on the new ones.

Regarding the location question, I'm from Baraboo, WI and my brother lives near Eau Claire, WI. I'll gladly post pics of the planes we build (his Twister and my Ee-Zee for the KMD) and the power we choose when they are complete.

I've probably missed something in here, but just let me say thanks for all the help to this point. I'll keep you all in the loop as we move along on this.

Dave...

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2016, 10:47:38 AM »

My personal opinion on electric vs. slime: If you're a rank beginner, you should either stick to slime or an electric that's small enough that a prop saver will fit. This applies especially if you fly over pavement. Engines just hold up to lawn-darting a plane better than electrics do (although I've recently taken to flying the little ones with prop savers, and they seem to do OK too).

If you DO want to start with a little electric trainer, get a $20 car radio from Hobby King, modify the throttle so that it works for planes, and use that instead of a timer. Not only is it easier to deal with getting dizzy, but a boring old all-sheet trainer gets a lot less boring when you can play with the speed.