Castor oil

[kevin king]

I've been watching a lot of videos on the health benefits of Castor oil. My question is this the same as the Castor oil we use in our engine?

[Dave_Trible]

Generally yes I think so-but I wouldn't be taking any swigs of my oil stash.   

Dave

[Gerald Arana]

Generally yes I think so-but I wouldn't be taking any swigs of my oil stash.   

Dave

I think you are right Dave. Medicinal Castor is different than the stuff we use in our engines..................or so I've heard.

Be safe, don't drink it. (Tastes like s##t anyway!)

Cheers, Jerry

[Motorman]

I'd stick with olive oil unless you have a hair ball. Personally I go with 40% bran flakes and a little more water.

MM

[doug coursey]

Generally yes I think so-but I wouldn't be taking any swigs of my oil stash.   

Dave

when i was real young my mother would give us a table spoon of castor oil when we got sick,,it was some nasty stuff,it didnt have any taste but was hard to swallow

[Brian Hampton]

Medicinal castor is the same as we use in engines except it has been more thoroughly treated to ensure there are no traces of ricin left from the husks. There's also a fair chance that sugars may have been added as well.

[Travnik, Istvan]

Ist is very easy to decide, if is there any sugar in the medicine quality castor: ask your pharmacist to look after in the official medicines' book.
I did it: in Europe there is NO any sugar in the castor oil. It was just a myth, maybe in the past.
Otherwise:
Castor oil is a very good cough suppressant.
If you take it, you won't dare to cough afterwards...

[Dave Hull]

Isty--

[Dan McEntee]

I've been watching a lot of videos on the health benefits of Castor oil. My question is this the same as the Castor oil we use in our engine?

   As far as I have ever found out, it is the same, just processed more for purity. Probably the main reason it is so much more expensive that what we normally buy, because it's considered a medicine!! You can also buy castor oil in the baking department of most grocery stores. According to my late Mother, there are lots of old country cake and pastry recipes that call for castor oil, but I don't know the context of why it is used in baking. When I first got started with stunt and learning about Fox.35s, it was the easiest to find source of castor to add to fuel. I don't recall any issues from it.
   Castor oil is used in the blending of plastics, urethanes and foams. My oldest brother worked in that industry for a long time. I needed some castor oil to help me with my fight against the moles in my yard, and he brought me a 5 gallon bucket!! It looked the same as SIG castor oil when held side by side. In the printing business it is used in blending ink in special colors. That variety is quit thick, about the same consistency as the ink itself. When mixing a special color, they dip it out of the bucket with large spatulas and add it by weight. Again, I don't know the context of why it is added, and only guess it may help with helping the ink to spread out evenly as it goes up the roller train of a printing press unit to the printing plate where it is applied. It is also used in health and beauty applications for extremely dry hair and skin. I think that apothecary supply place that many get it from for mixing into fuel can supply more information on that aspect if you care to research it.

   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[john e. holliday]

Only way to find out is to try it in some fuel for the old Fox 35 Stunt.

[doug coursey]

They process castor oil 2 different ways one by pressure and one by chemical,i remember oil prices jumped real high a long time ago and they raised castor oil too and its not a petroleum

[Perry Rose]

Bulk Apothecary sells castor oil that's food grade. I've used it in my fuel mix for a long time.

[Joseph Lijoi]

I've been watching a lot of videos on the health benefits of Castor oil. My question is this the same as the Castor oil we use in our engine?

It is a laxative type known as stimulant laxative. It not only softens stool but stimulates bowel movements. Very healthy. World War one fighter pilots suffered from chronic diarrhea due to the inhaling castor oil fumes, which was the lubricant of the day. Frequently before getting blown out of the sky many of them had an uncontrollable urge to take a dump. I don't know of any of the other health benefits of castor oil but I'm sure RFK Jr. will keep us informed.

[John Park]

It is a laxative type known as stimulant laxative. It not only softens stool but stimulates bowel movements. Very healthy. World War one fighter pilots suffered from chronic diarrhea due to the inhaling castor oil fumes, which was the lubricant of the day. Frequently before getting blown out of the sky many of them had an uncontrollable urge to take a dump. I don't know of any of the other health benefits of castor oil but I'm sure RFK Jr. will keep us informed.

From what I've read, it was common to take frequent swigs of your favourite spirituous liquor when flying, to ward off the dreaded diarrhoea.  Apparently, one of the top men swore by cherry brandy.  The castor oil curse was largely restricted to rotary engines, with their total-loss lubrication systems, so SE5 pilots were luckier, and presumably more sober, than their Camel-flying comrades.

[John Carrodus]

I read some time ago that medical grade caster has to have ricine removed - very bad for your health. Medical Caster was not recommended for lubricanting machinery at temperature. Good for lubricating unwanted cargo however! As an aside , ALL caster is degumed during the refining process. I believe that some high spec caster is further refined to remove impurities- some of which is residual from the refining process itself...if I remember correctly. I may stand corrected.It sounds a bit like good olive oil. Squezed then degumed is beter than boiled second pickings.

[Lauri Malila]

Here is a nice little article about castor oil. Doesn’t tell what type of castor we should use, but explains well its superiority in some circumstances.

https://www.go-cl.se/castor.html

L

[Gerald Arana]

Here is a nice little article about castor oil. Doesn’t tell what type of castor we should use, but explains well its superiority in some circumstances.

https://www.go-cl.se/castor.html

L

WOW! That is a great article. Thanks for posting it Lauri.

Cheers, Jerry

[kevin king]

Thanks everyone 

[C.T. Schaefer]

Years ago we came upon stashes of medicinal castor two times. Gallons of it at a price we could not ignore.  It served us well!  TS

[Dan McEntee]

Here is a nice little article about castor oil. Doesn’t tell what type of castor we should use, but explains well its superiority in some circumstances.

https://www.go-cl.se/castor.html

L

      This is a good little article, and I think I have read it before, might have been on here in the early days or on Stuka. If anyone is bored and wants to search, I think there is another article posted explaining the processing methods of castor to it's different levels and uses. I think the ricin is only in the seed of the castor bean, but I don't remember how that is removed during processing. I think it must be a pretty simple part of the process. Over the years I have pretty much tried several varieties of castor and they all seemed to work the same to me. In an engine like the Fox .35 and the other older iron piston/liner engines, it probably doesn't make much different since it doesn't burn, and that is the critical property i think. In more modern engines up to and including the ABC and AAC technology, I think it still has a place especially if it's a plain bearing engine, just in much smaller amounts.

  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[944_Jim]

I'm going back to the original question, and re-phrasing as I understand stood it. "Is it (medicinal castor) the same as used in our fuel?"

I can't say "no" for sure...castor oil packaged for engine/fuel use most likely has additives I wouldn't want to ingest. I know the two-stroke castor oil I bought for this purpose IS "laced." I also doubt the blenders/vendors source medicinal or food grade castor as their base.

Now to ask if medicinal-grade castor works in glow fuel, I'll say "yes, but" based on my limited experience using it in 1/2A fuel. It is my "limited use" that I added the "but." I clearly don't have the lifetime of experience operating model engines that many in this forum do.

I won't believe the blenders/vendors are selling purely medicinal-grade castor oil,.and recommend NOT dosing one-self with it (well, duh!).

[Dave_Trible]

The best way to find out is to GOOGLE the subject.  There I've found the medical grade really means purest and that comes from he first cold pressing.  I've yet to find WHO and HOW anybody 'official' actually grades it- don't think the practice happens.   "Bakers" AAA was probably a marketing tool of the Bakers.

Dave

[Lauri Malila]

For sure the classic medical grade is good for fuel, we've used it a lot back in the day. But also for sure, you can get castor from pharmacy that's been made easier to swallow by addition of sugar or whatever. So read what it says in the ingredients.
I think Dan is kind of correct about a lesser need for castor in the modern ABC- and AAC -engines. It's partly because of lower moving masses that cause lower surface pressures (still very few synthetics reach the same level of pressure resistance than castor), but also because general quality and understanding of thermodynamics and materials is much better now than in the FOX etc. era.
In the Foxes that I have seen, the general quality which includes surface finishes, roundness, hot/cold geometrical perpendicularity and the clearances in running temperature were all over the place. And all those things cause binding and hot spots when the engine is running, the best cure in that time (Probably they did not know it as there were no choice of oil.) was to use an oil that seeks to those places like explained in the article instead of disintegrating when conditions get too hard.
All those problems were solved later by people like Metkemeijer and Nelson. L

[Dan McEntee]

The best way to find out is to GOOGLE the subject.  There I've found the medical grade really means purest and that comes from he first cold pressing.  I've yet to find WHO and HOW anybody 'official' actually grades it- don't think the practice happens.   "Bakers" AAA was probably a marketing tool of the Bakers.

Dave

     I remember SIG castor being advertised as "Baker AA Grade Castor" or might have been AAA. I'll have to check an old catalog. I originally thought that this meant that it was equal to the grade that can be used for baking purposes. It sort of made sense!! Then a year or so ago, I saw a listing on eBay for "Bakers AA Castor Oil" in a really neat looking gallon can. The can was full also!! It must have been fairly old, because it had an antiqueish lookout style of wrap around label, and there just wasn't very much other information on it. I watched it for a long time. The price for the can wasn't too bad, but like a lot of things, the shipping was ridiculous, and I even tried to negotiate a better shipping rate with the seller before pulling the trigger. It would have been a win/win, a gallon of castor oil, plus the neat, hobby related can to display!! Just about the time I thought I might as well grab it, it was gone. I don't know if it sold or the seller pulled the listing. But I take that as an indication that Bakers was a company that produced castor oil for wide distribution. I googled the Baker name and came up with some images of similar cans, and a website for what looked like a drug store chain called Baker's, but nothing that made me think the old company was still around.
    To answer the original question, I will say yes, it is the same, mainly because it works as intended, in both uses!! Anything bought from a motorcycle shop or performance company of any kind, may have some sort of additives in it, but then again it may not!! It just may be smoke and mirrors to make you think it is something special, but may be the same as the cheaper stiff from the apothecary shop. To be anything else, there would need to be two kinds of castor beans!!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Brian Hampton]

The problem with the castor bean is that the shell is where the ricin is contained and ricin is a deadly poison so you definitely don't want any trace of that in medicinal or cooking castor. The raw beans are crushed to squeeze out as much oil as possible (first pressing). Then the (still wet) husks are collected and then pressed again (second pressing). All the oil from both pressings go into settling tanks where any tiny remnants of the husk can be removed. This leaves an oil suitable for lubrication although the remaining nearly dry husks still contain a small amount of oil that further pressing can't squeeze out so chemicals (xylene for one I believe) are used to extract that oil. This chemically extracted oil can then be mixed into the pure pressed oil but some of the chemical used remains and apparently is the cause for the white flakes reportedly seen in cold weathers. All the above is a simplified version of the actual process which is really quite complicated.
 

[spare_parts]

"Bakers AA" is a trademark. You can get AA grade from major suppliers. If you want to run castor, why not run something with all the good stuff in it like Maxima Castor 927, saying nothing of the cost.

[Lauri Malila]

"Bakers AA" is a trademark. You can get AA grade from major suppliers. If you want to run castor, why not run something with all the good stuff in it like Maxima Castor 927, saying nothing of the cost.

Yes, Maxima is good. But I’d hesitate to use it in old engines that have already been run a lot with normal castor, for the same reason why why shouldn’t use synthetic oils in them.
But if the starting point is clean & healthy, then of course. L

[Gary Dowler]

From what I understand, Castor is Castor.  However, the medical grade Castor is more highly refined, or so Ive been led to believe.  The way it was explained to me once was to liken it to Olive oil.  There's Olive oil, virgin olive oil, extra virgin, extra extra virgin, etc, but in the final analysis it is all Olive oil.

I would advise caution and not drink the engine stuff from Sig, but conversely I have used the medical stuff in engines with perfect results.

Gary

[spare_parts]

The only thing you're likely to run into as a consumer is AA grade or equivalent and USP (medicinal) or national equivalent. Castor based two stroke oils can be anything from very basic to advanced blends.

BTW most olive oil is blended with something other than olive. Much like a lot of honey is faked. Anything for profit.

[Lauri Malila]

Ok, I got curious and searched some more. There is all kinds of answers in the internet, varying between ”The best” and ”Don’t use medicinal grade”. For example  Adrian Duncan writes like this:

In the past, castor oil was available in both lubricant and medical grades. The medical grade intended for internal use is still readily available in drug stores. However, it is quite unsuitable for use as a model engine lubricant – do not be tempted to try it! A useable substitute with which I have so far had completely satisfactory results is the 100% pure cold-pressed castor oil which is sold in beauty stores for external use as a skin emollient – for some reason, its availability has not so far been affected by the Ricin scare. Its main disadvantage is that it is not de-gummed, making it somewhat prone to gumming up a stored engine unless appropriate precautions are taken. If you decide to try this route, make sure that the label on the oil that you're buying specifically states that it is 100% pure cold-pressed castor oil.

Speaking of gumming up, any engine that is run on castor oil should be cleaned very thoroughly prior to long term storage…

A much better reply came when I asked Robbie Metkemeijer, maybe the best expert of this subject that I could  find. He wrote:

My brother and I used medicinal castor oil all our ( teamrace) life, because my father worked in the pharmaceutics so we could get it easily. I think it was normal castor oil, but it had very constant quality which was good for us.
It had all the good and all the bad habits of normal castor oil, mainly dirty engines. I do not think there was a systematic difference
I think that people that say "never use" will not use castor oil at all (because of dirty engine and big problems when it stays too long in the stored engine) and people that say "the best" like the constant quality like we did.
But nowadays there are much more stable castor oils like Castor 927 Maxima or Shell Advance Racing M, Klotz castor https://klotzlube.com/shop/ols/products/xn-benol-racing-castor-lubricant-ueb1a These are all "improved" castor oils, but based on castor oils. Als very constant quality, but more stable in the fuel, and probably a bit less dirty in burning.


So, my conclusion is that medicinal castor is fine, but you have to live with the ill effects. Also, note the difference between the real medicinal castor and other castor based products that the pharmacy sells. So read the ingredients. L

[Dan McEntee]

Ok, I got curious and searched some more. There is all kinds of answers in the internet, varying between ”The best” and ”Don’t use medicinal grade”. For example  Adrian Duncan writes like this:

In the past, castor oil was available in both lubricant and medical grades. The medical grade intended for internal use is still readily available in drug stores. However, it is quite unsuitable for use as a model engine lubricant – do not be tempted to try it! A useable substitute with which I have so far had completely satisfactory results is the 100% pure cold-pressed castor oil which is sold in beauty stores for external use as a skin emollient – for some reason, its availability has not so far been affected by the Ricin scare. Its main disadvantage is that it is not de-gummed, making it somewhat prone to gumming up a stored engine unless appropriate precautions are taken. If you decide to try this route, make sure that the label on the oil that you're buying specifically states that it is 100% pure cold-pressed castor oil.

Speaking of gumming up, any engine that is run on castor oil should be cleaned very thoroughly prior to long term storage…

A much better reply came when I asked Robbie Metkemeijer, maybe the best expert of this subject that I could  find. He wrote:

My brother and I used medicinal castor oil all our ( teamrace) life, because my father worked in the pharmaceutics so we could get it easily. I think it was normal castor oil, but it had very constant quality which was good for us.
It had all the good and all the bad habits of normal castor oil, mainly dirty engines. I do not think there was a systematic difference
I think that people that say "never use" will not use castor oil at all (because of dirty engine and big problems when it stays too long in the stored engine) and people that say "the best" like the constant quality like we did.
But nowadays there are much more stable castor oils like Castor 927 Maxima or Shell Advance Racing M, Klotz castor https://klotzlube.com/shop/ols/products/xn-benol-racing-castor-lubricant-ueb1a These are all "improved" castor oils, but based on castor oils. Als very constant quality, but more stable in the fuel, and probably a bit less dirty in burning.


So, my conclusion is that medicinal castor is fine, but you have to live with the ill effects. Also, note the difference between the real medicinal castor and other castor based products that the pharmacy sells. So read the ingredients. L

  Interesting read. The only part I have any question about is that the stuff from beauty supply places is not degummed. I would think that in this day and age, anything coming in contact with your skin would need to be as pure as possible to keep the government nannies happy. Another use for castor oil was for plasticizing dope back in the old days. A few drops per ounce of thinned dope was the general application, I think. Check old rubber powered stick and tissue plans or any of the old books. Fast forward to today and many use Dave brown Flex-All. If you hold it up next to a container of medicinal or baking castor oil, it looks very close to the same. I did a "taste test" once, where I tasted just a drop of each on my tongue and it tasted the same to me. This is a lot more safe to use than the chemical used for plasticizing that begins with "Tri" something and I can't pronounce and am too lazy to look up.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee