castle vs. Jeti vs. ...

[Shorts,David]

When I have done electric models, I have used Castle escs with Hubin timers.

From looking at the nats fliers in the recent (and amazing) Pampa newsletter (thanks to Mike Palko) almost everyone is using Jeti escs with either Igor or Fiorotti timers. I am told the Fiorotti uses an accelerometer and is easier to program than the igor.

I am told [and here is the question], that a fiorotti timer will send signal faster than a Castle esc can respond, yet a Jeti will respond fast enough to make noticable improvement in performance.

I am looking for first hand confirmation to justify replacing $10 hubins with $90 fiorottis, and the castles which I already own with Jeti escs for about $100 a pop.

Thanks

[Ken Culbertson]

I made the same transition 2 years ago.  With the Huban you really have a 4-2-4 electric.  It provides constant RPM and you are probably quite used to that and wonder how an active timer could be much better.  Well it is, not just "much" but "a whole lotta" better.  The active timers provide you constant speed.  It took me quite a while to get used to the boost and brake as you fly the maneuvers but once you do you will never want to go back.  Once you get a plane trimmed to track properly the timer becomes your go to trim device.  If you keep a log of your settings, you can quickly change the trim for wind, calm, humid, dry etc.

Another big advantage of the Jetti vs the Castle is the programming.  The timers and the ESC are both programmed using the same box.

By the way, which Castles do you have.  I understand that the Fiorotti will work on the Phoenix.

 I use the Fiorotti and I fly with some Igor types.  IMHO the Castle is not the best choice for an active, but it will work and some use it quite successfully.  There are two versions of the Jetti.  The Spin and Spin Pro.  The Spin is faster, and if you are using Igor's timer you might actually need it.  The Fiorotti works on either and the Pro is fast enough.  As far as I know, Igor is the only source for the non-Pro Spin. 

Hope this helps - Ken

ps - If you have never flown an active timer and you know some one who has one properly trimmed who will give you a spin, do it and let me know what you noticed about the hourglass.

[Mike Scholtes]

Hi David, Ken has it exactly right. The non-pro Spin 66 from Igor is the quickest-responding ESC according to what I have learned, and is best with an active timer such as Igor's and the Fiorotti. Howard Rush told me at Golden State that he uses Tim Wescott's TUT with the Spin 66. One advantage of using Igor's components is as Ken observes that both are programmed with the Jeti box, just by moving the input leads on the Jeti box. I think Chris Cox and Paul Walker are using the Igor system but I neglected to ask them at Golden State. Kestutis Dvarvydis uses the Spin 66 and Igor active timer, and has a notebook with settings used by several European flyers with the Igor system; he helped me greatly getting mine dialed in. The system also works best with the hollow lightweight CF props from Igor and others, that accelerate quickly when given the power boost. Like turbo with no turbo lag.

I think I am the closest to you geographically who is using the full Igor system. You are welcome to try my Starlight and see what you think. I think you will be impressed. I will too, with a more skilled pilot on the handle!

[Bill Schluckbier]

Hi David,

I noticed the same thing on the PAMPA newsletter and definitely feel behind the times.  I have been using the CC ESC in governor mode along with a simple timer.  On the larger models the CC ESC has the ability to log data and I am seeing a 30%-40% increase in power as the model maneuvers in the vertical.  I know that it will loose some speed while going up since the ESC is simply holding RPM and I can potentially gain some speed on the way down (say like going up and down as you fly a wingover).  I have played with a lot of different props and it seems that a larger diameter prop of low pitch seems to work best being able to hold the speed more or less constant. A wind milling, low pitch prop (as when the ESC backs off in the power), will generate a lot of drag and I think this is why the model does not seem to speed up much in the wind. On a converted SIG Fazer (52 in wingspan, 620 sqin, 54 oz) I was running a 13x5 and it flew the model quite well.  Little wind up in the wind and the model would corner well. I understand that the active timers are better but wonder if trying a different prop might be worth a shot.

[Dennis Toth]

Bill,
I have been using a similar setup with the CC ESC. One thing to try with the prop is cutting down a large diameter to get a wide blade, this give a lot of rubber meeting the road going uphill and lots of area holding back going down. I have been using an inch or two longer diameter and cut off 1 or 1 1/2" on my APCE props. I have tried the standard prop and can feel the difference with the wide blade.

Best,    DennisT

[Ken Culbertson]

Dennis:

Wouldn't you get the same effect from a smaller 3 blade with more pitch?  I tried a BA 12-5 two blade and was impressed but it did not have the same bite in the corners that my go-to MAS three blade 11-6 has.  It also had more delay in the boost coming off of long periods of brake (RWO, hourglass).  This was opposite of what I expected.  The lighter 12-5 should spin up faster then the heavier 11-6.  To me getting the boost after the corner was a deal killer.  Is it possible that the sensitivity (Fiorotti timer) settings need to be dramatically changed if you are using a 2 blade vs a three blade or am I missing something else? 

Ken   

[Dennis Toth]

Ken,
I think the three blade would do the same as the wide blade two. It is hard to compare different brands as each manufacture has a different way of pitching to the same pitch number. From reviews the MS props are 1" lower than the stated pitch. The MS has a bit wider tip than say the APC so it should pull a little stronger. It will also pull more amps so everything is a compromise. You might try taking a 13 x 5 two blade and cut it to 12 leaving the tips square and see how it is compared to 11 x 6 MS three blade.

Best,    DennisT

[Bill Schluckbier]

Dennis,

Might give it a try.  I used to fly a long time ago and basically just got back into the hobby.  On my last glow plane, about 30 years ago, I did use a cropped down prop and it seemed to work well. I know that props are not free but they are generally inexpensive enough to be worth the experiment.

Thanks

[Igor Burger]

I am told the Fiorotti uses an accelerometer and is easier to program than the igor.

I hear it often, but so far no one told me what is "easier". Basically I have only one number (related to accelerometer functionality) to set how much or how strong is RPM variation. Everything else is already properly tuned inside by me and it did not need changes for years. And BTW there are even kids using it with success (last european championship we had whole team only from juniors - as team they finished bronze and first 3 junior places were our and all of them used my timers). So I do not see any difficulty with adjusting. Or did I miss something?

[Howard Rush]

Howard Rush told me at Golden State that he uses Tim Wescott's TUT with the Spin 66.

The TUT provides a slow takeoff, a loop kill, and mode annunciation. The Igor timer works during the stunts. The only numbers I change are speed if I change props and sensitivity if wind changes. Igor knows what he’s doing.