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Author Topic: Brad's new plane  (Read 6843 times)

steven yampolsky

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Brad's new plane
« on: September 19, 2007, 10:11:24 AM »
What happened to Brad's new plane post? I was looking forward to reading about the progress.

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 03:56:19 PM »
Yep, gone... Can't believe it was deleted (sensored), would like to know what ate it myself  ??? ???

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 05:14:39 PM »
Yep, gone... Can't believe it was deleted (sensored), would like to know what ate it myself  ??? ???

I deleted it.  It was not censored.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 06:02:31 PM »
Brad,

Why did you delete it? I thought it was pretty cool.
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Offline Warren Wagner

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2007, 10:11:42 AM »

??????

I too have been scratching my head, looking for Brads' post.   Brad always has good information about design, building, finishing, engines, and flying.  I generally read all of his posts.

This one, with the drawing of the new "T-Rex", was especially interesting.  Was looking forward to reading and seeing the full story from design to construction and flying.

I was not aware that individuals could even delete their posts.   Brad must have been afraid of us stealing his secrets and reaping the benefits of his design innovations. <grin>   It certainly could not have been because he was offended by  a critical remark.   I'm sure his skin is much thicker than that.

And besides that, I had posted a question that I was really interested in knowing the answer to.

I'll keep an eye out for your post.

Cheers.

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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 10:42:29 AM »
Ya, I thought it was good design, especially the nose.. Sorry Brad but I still don't think the rudder fits..

I do like the rudder, it is almost the same outline I used on my Legacy because I don't really care for round rudders but it just seemed out of place with an elliptical wing.

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2007, 12:25:38 PM »
I have to admit I do not understand why anyone would say anything negative about another person's plane, design, or whatever.

I really did not expect me posting a plan to become an episode of Critic's Corner.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2007, 10:14:18 AM »
If people can't take a little criticism or ribbing, their in the wrong hobby.  If we found we could rattle someones chain, the poor individual did not stand a chance as the word went around.  Too bad Steve Johnson didn't think that model planes were just as important as making money.  He was comong in for a landing during a contest when womeone yelled at someone else and he thought it was him.  Needless to say he ballooned his landing.  He got upset over nothing in our opinion and we started riding him every chance we could.  He finally got to where nothing would disturb him while flying a pattern.  I liked Brad's T-Rex, but, as with any model I build there may be some minor changes.  When done with the plane I want to see pictures Brad.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2007, 11:10:00 AM »
Brad,

What did I miss??  I don't remember anything particular about that thread.

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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2007, 11:40:26 AM »
Your postings will NOT always get nice thingys said. Live with it.  n1 y1

I am sorry, I simply would not make a negative comment on anyone's plane unless specifically asked to do so.

I have seen many pilots (that I consider to be jerks) walk up to total strangers at contests and start telling them what they do not like about someone's plane, paint job, engine run, brand of engine, type of fuel they use, prop they use, what kind of pants they wear, whatever.  I just would never do it.  I consider it rude and totally inappropriate behavior, and that is that.  It does not make me thin skinned.  I am a professional design engineer, I have had to develop a very THICK skin when it comes to design work, because every middle management know it all weekend garage mechanic who ever rebuilt a Rodchester carburetor considers themselves to be an accomplished engineer.

I am a little surprised by the reaction that I should be REQUIRED to post my work on this forum (or any forum) and not remove it if I so choose.

You guys feel free to post your designs and I will tell you what I do not like about them...  I guarantee you will not like it.  I am actually very good at spotting flaws in other people's design work.  I just do not feel inclined to tell everyone about it.  I also realize this would ultimately be my OPINION anyway, and you know what opinions are like, right?

This whole experience is beyond bizarre...
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2007, 11:50:10 AM »
Hi Brad,

I can agree with much of what you say.  If someone walked up to me, that I didn't know, and started ripping my model, I would probably laugh at them and tell them to get lost!   I would pass it off as "ain't nothing but a thing".

Sorry I don't really remember what happened, and I have always liked to see your (as well as anyone's) work posted.  As you know, I am THE #1 CLPA THIEF, so I want to see everyone's new stuff in case there is something I can steal from it!  H^^

I also realize you DO catch a lot of grief sometimes.  And not flaming here, but your writing style is sometimes a *little* harsh, maybe too self promoting to some.  No problem to me, but there are many who don't think like me, or have had the experiences I have.  I pretty much grew up getting my B@!!$ busted all the time (football and later coaching) so there is *little* that usually bothers me. 

Now a person who I considered a friend publicly denouncing and humiliating me is another story!  :o
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Offline billbyles

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 11:54:07 AM »
I am sorry, I simply would not make a negative comment on anyone's plane unless specifically asked to do so.

I have seen many pilots (that I consider to be jerks) walk up to total strangers at contests and start telling them what they do not like about someone's plane, paint job, engine run, brand of engine, type of fuel they use, prop they use, what kind of pants they wear, whatever.  I just would never do it.  I consider it rude and totally inappropriate behavior, and that is that.  It does not make me thin skinned.  I am a professional design engineer, I have had to develop a very THICK skin when it comes to design work, because every middle management know it all weekend garage mechanic who ever rebuilt a Rodchester carburetor considers themselves to be an accomplished engineer.

I am a little surprised by the reaction that I should be REQUIRED to post my work on this forum (or any forum) and not remove it if I so choose.

You guys feel free to post your designs and I will tell you what I do not like about them...  I guarantee you will not like it.  I am actually very good at spotting flaws in other people's design work.  I just do not feel inclined to tell everyone about it.  I also realize this would ultimately be my OPINION anyway, and you know what opinions are like, right?

This whole experience is beyond bizarre...

So, you pick up your marbles and go home...very thin-skinned.
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2007, 12:25:13 PM »
Well Brad, it is a forum and one would assume you posted it here for comments. Good , bad, or indifferent.

Interesting take...

So you believe that the purpose of posting on a forum is to receive "critiques" from the community?
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2007, 12:26:31 PM »
So, you pick up your marbles and go home...very thin-skinned.

I guess so.

Sad you feel that way.  It really does not bother me.

Sometimes taking your ball and going home is not such a bad idea.  HA!!!
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Ken Deboy

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2007, 12:28:31 PM »
The rudder just didn't lok right ond other said the smae thing. No big deal unless you are a rudder guy. Me, I like nice tight rudders.  Other than that, I think the plane was terrific.  Nice CAD work. Just lose the rudder.  H^^ LL~Lighten up.

Ty,
The only problem is that airplanes with nice rudders are so HIGH MAINTENANCE!!!

cheers,
Ken
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2007, 12:36:44 PM »
Ty,
The only problem is that airplanes with nice rudders are so HIGH MAINTENANCE!!!

cheers,
Ken

I agree.

Although huge, fancy rudders have visual appeal,they make for planes that yaw the wrong way in the wind.  My recent designs have much smaller rudders with much more side area in the front, and they are infinitely more predictable in the wind (especially true on the outer edges of the sq 8).  trying to make a first loop in the clover is much easier in the gale when the nose is being pushed away instead of the tail.  It is just common sense.

The T-Rex had a shortened T-Bird rudder (this going with the T-Rex/T-Bird theme) that was similar to the KA-10.  The KA-10 also looked like crap in 2D.  Many planes do not not look sexy when flattened to a 2D drawing, and quite often the reverse is true, many planes that look sexy on paper look like crap when built.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2007, 12:39:03 PM »
Well yes actually. Why else post it.??  To show off, and get rave revues. That would be a critique, no?

I don't know, to show what I was doing?

Either I was posting to show off, or get your input?  Those are the two choices?  Huh...
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2007, 01:14:31 PM »
And not flaming here, but your writing style is sometimes a *little* harsh, maybe too self promoting to some.

I am not certain what "self promoting" means, at least in terms of Stunt Hangar forum.  I have not posted a whole lot here at all.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Doug Moon

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question
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2007, 01:53:37 PM »
I have been watching this from the 1st day that plan was posted.  This is an interesting situation to say the least.

If Brad had posted pics of the plane built and ready for the maiden voyage there would not have been one negative comment.  NOT ONE!  Even if people thought it they would have kept quiet.  You would have read the usual, nice plane, great colors, how much does it weigh, good luck, let us know how it flies, type of replies.  No one would have said hey your rudder on your brand new plane looks like crap. 

BUT post a plan.  NOT asking for comments on how to improve it and or change it and here it comes….  How is it different?  It is still his work and his time and effort he put into it.

You all know there is a saying out there that goes something like this, "If you dont have something nice to say, then SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE!"

Now if he had asked for ideas or possible changes that would have been different. 




« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 08:29:43 PM by Doug Moon »
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Offline John Miller

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2007, 02:27:44 PM »
Hey Brad, I really wish you'd consider posting your design again. I'm always interested in what, and how, others are doing things when it comes to design.

Actually, a good thing has come from all this. You explained your reasons why you did what you did, and I believe it bears some further attention. Using design to address specific problems isn't unique, but always interesting.


Best wishes

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2007, 05:00:54 PM »
Brad,

I generally don't comment unless it's to note stuff I like. I post pics occasionally to illustrate a point or to show off what I'm working on. Some like my stuff, some don't. That's cool. Do what you want. Post it or not. Your decision. If you post it, so will like it and some won't. That's life.

I enjoy looking at your stuff. I seem some interesting stuff.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2007, 07:56:05 PM »
I am not certain what "self promoting" means, at least in terms of Stunt Hangar forum.  I have not posted a whole lot here at all.

Sorry Brad, I was at work and looking at it, it is poor "wording".  Like I said, I am not trying to flame you, I am looking at what goes on.  I should have said something more like "what you say is it, and everyone else is wrong". 

Doesn't bother me, at all, and I know you don't mean it that way.  As you well know, when you voice strong opinions, you will face more heat.  You, me, and anyone else will.  Some people take offense.  The internet written word can be horrible at times since we are not in direct, personal, contact where we see facial expressions, voice inflections, and all the other parts that go into verbal communications.  I know, we can't please all the people all the time.  I'm sorry for the poor communication skills on my part.
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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2007, 10:45:31 PM »
Ty,

I fully understand you and others were commenting on the just the rudder shape.  Never thought any different. 

I see your point about the comments at that time.  But I am sure you can see mine as well. 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 10:46:37 AM by Doug Moon »
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2007, 11:29:09 PM »
My friends busted me mercilessly when I showed off my new red kit bashed Twister. It was our weekly club meeting. A straight plane of monokote and dope. Had it out today. Flies quite well needing only a little this and that. A step up in my modest but progressing building skills. Our convention and fashion is to rag anyone's new stuff. I have been calling a friend's beautiful in process electric Mustang soylent green. No doubt the plane will eventually appear in mags. It's maiden flights awaited by many. What does this exercise do? For one thing everyone has a good yuk. On the positive side the ragging helps us to look at our pride and joy analytically. Also, at least for me, it lessens my attachment to the appearance of a plane. Good thing. Because ultimately stunters are functional tools that will have to be flown hard and fearlessly. Later at the field or elsewhere we honestly praise what we like. It's kind of a ritual. I think it a useful one.


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2007, 07:53:55 AM »
The main point is some people can take criticism and some can't.  The ones that really irritate me are the ones that give it and then get upset when it is returned.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2007, 08:11:25 AM »
Later at the field or elsewhere we honestly praise what we like. It's kind of a ritual. I think it a useful one.

I cannot believe how people are posting that ragging on someone else's work is acceptable behavior...  Although, I will admit there are people that I see do it.   I do not fly or hang around any of them myself.

I would never in a million years walk up and start telling people what I do not like about their work, or their shortcomings as a builder/designer, even in jest.  In fact, I have to be asked specifically to comment on my friends equipment, performance, etc and usually several times.  Even then, this sometimes does not go well, as people really do not want to be told the truth, they just want you to tell them what they want to hear.

Successful coaching is the knack to discuss the negatives in the light of the positive.

Bad coach:  "Your triangles suck".

Good coach:  "Your squares are great.  We need to make your triangles as good as your squares".

Some people respond to negative coaching, but I think they are rare.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2007, 08:18:12 AM »
The main point is some people can take criticism and some can't.  The ones that really irritate me are the ones that give it and then get upset when it is returned.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

Since this thread has my name on it, I assume you are saying that "I" cannot take criticism? 

The 10 Stunt Rules:

1 The shinier the better.
2. If it sounds good, it runs good.
3. What you have does not work as well as what I have because I am not using it.
4. It is easy to criticize originality. To avoid being criticized, just follow the crowd.
5. Winning pilots make great leaders and have the best interests of everyone at heart.
6. When in doubt paint your stunt plane red, white, and blue. Heavy on the white.
7. Being a Winner’s toady will not make you a winner. There is only one 1st place. That is reserved for the Winner.
8. Whoever is currently winning will say that the current system is perfect. The reverse is often true for whoever is losing.
9. It is important to have an opinion, even if you do not know why.
10. It is not what you say, it is who says it.

See rule #4 and rule #9.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: question
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2007, 08:34:13 AM »
I wasn't picking on your buddy, just the rudder shape. sheesh.  H^^ D>K

I never thought anyone was picking on me.

I should have learned my lesson long ago about posting plans.  I know I avoid showing plans to anyone at work!!!  Especially a middle manager!!!
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2007, 09:34:15 AM »
I find Bradley Walker's ten rules of stunt both funny and truthful. Must be me.

Ragging can be an art. Check out Shakespear's fools. (Uh oh have I taken this discussion to too high a plane. Rag me then.)

Offline Richard Grogan

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2007, 10:51:32 AM »
Alright, alright, alrighty now....Now that everyone is calmed down, may we see those plans again? I for one missed it and would like to see anyones idea of design, I appreciate aircraft, period.
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Offline Phil Bare

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2007, 11:21:40 AM »
Bradley, I thought that your plans were great and would like to see them again, and even get a copy if possible....Regards, Phil

Offline billbyles

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2007, 09:33:42 PM »


<snip>
"...as people really do not want to be told the truth, they just want you to tell them what they want to hear."
<snip>
So, would you have left the plans up here if everyone had told you how great the whole airplane is?  People will comment and critique; if you can't handle that then you perhaps should not be posting things.  I did not see any comments about your airplane that were harsh or rude; some just said that they thought the rudder shape was not to their liking...that should not hurt anyone's feelings.  Some like round rudders, some like squared off shapes, so what?  If you are looking for comments from only sycophants you will probably not find them here.   

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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2007, 11:03:31 PM »
.... Even then, this sometimes does not go well, as people really do not want to be told the truth, they just want you to tell them what they want to hear.

Successful coaching is the knack to discuss the negatives in the light of the positive.

Bad coach:  "Your triangles suck".

Good coach:  "Your squares are great.  We need to make your triangles as good as your squares".

Some people respond to negative coaching, but I think they are rare.

I don't know about this one.  And that is probably because example is so vague.  But here goes...

If the triangles in question actually do suck and the coach doesn't say so then he is not doing a crucial part of his job.  He needs to tell the pilot that they suck or they were not good or however but the pilot needs to know when he is doing a maneuver poorly.  The relationship between the pilot and coach has to be that open. 

If someone can fly the pattern then we all know they are a good flier!  That is a given.  Flying the pattern is very hard to do and to be able to do it means you are a good flier.  But when someone is getting coached they should know that they are a good pilot.  Simple as that. 

Let me be clear here.  I am talking about a pilot working with a coach that he normally works with on a session to session basis, not a once in a while bystander at a contest.  Then no that person is not really a coach but just a second set of eyes for a flight or two.  He probably wouldn't, or at least I wouldn't say things sucked after just a flight or two.  I would give a few pointers, only if asked to do so.  The relationship with a regular coach should be so that the coach can be honest with the pilot and the pilot knows that if the coach torches him over some things in his pattern it means nothing about him as a person to anything BUT the pattern.  If this is the case then pilot and coach will be open to freely converse with one another about what they are seeing.

If the coach uses positive reinforcement where he should be negative it will give the pilot the wrong idea. 

Example.

Pilot practices with the coach and he has sucky triangles and the coach says your triangles are great but lets get them more like your squares. Then the pilot goes to the contest and his score sheets show that his triangles were actually very sucky with low end 20s scores.  Now the pilot is confused.  Coach used the word great and I got low 20s.  Who is wrong here?  Pilot will go back to coach and say what is this.  Then the coach has to figure out a positive way to say your triangles suck.

If the coach can say it as he sees it it is much better for the pilot.  He has no preconceived notion that his triangles are anything but sucky.  He and the coach know what that have to work on.  If the coach says hey your triangles suck.  Then the score sheet says the same thing then everyone is on the same page.  The pilot should be very confident in his coach at that point.  It is up to the pilot and the coach to figure out some way to fix the triangle.  That is good coaching.  Calling out the sucky ones and getting together with the pilot to figure out some way to correct the problem.  Also calling out the goods ones as well.  Noting the things that the pilot does well on the good ones and moving it to the bad ones.  But the coach has to call it like he sees it that way it is the same as the judges.  Just saying your triangles suck and that is all is not good coaching so to speak.  There is more to it.

Getting coached is often hearing what you dont want to hear.  And not hearing what you want to hear.  Coaching is used to improve on things that are wrong.  That means you will spend alot of time on what you do wrong, and or sucky, or kind of bad, or so so, or pretty good.  But less time will be spent on what is going good.  Pretty much keep doing what you are doing there and lets get it over here where you stink up the place.

It is also up to the pilot to tell the coach when and when not to coach.  The coach doesnt need to be railing on the pilot over ugly squares when he was really out there trying a new prop or something.

Coaching is tough.  We are talking man to man here.  There is no position of authority in stunt judging like there is in team sports.   The relationship between the two has to be open and honest about the patterns and how they see them and how to correct them.  That will mean hearing what you dont want to hear. 

What I have found as I go along is that people who are getting coached regularly, myself included, and really begin to understand their skills and level of their skills begin to see the mistakes as they make them and then after the flight the coach doesn't even have to say it sucked because the pilot already knows it and will point it out to the coach.  The coach is not going to be blindsiding the pilot.  Then the conversations are more about HOW to correct things then they are about what was wrong.  Or about tendencies throughout the flights for the day.

Sorry I went so long and I could go on and on about it.   

We have all heard the term "coachable".  Those who are go very far!  I have heard several different times Micheal Jordan was said to be one of the MOST coachable athletes ever. 
Doug Moon
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2007, 08:43:48 AM »
Hi Doug,

After spending over 30 years at the HS level as a Coach, and experiencing some success, I have seen a change in what it takes to be effective. 

I always told the player that he needed to work on whatever he was doing wrong.  Like: "Doug,  your round eights are really pretty good, but the square eights need some work.  How about trying it this way.  It will seem strange, but try it and give it time to get use to it."  I have not alienated you at the beginning (told you something you were doing pretty good) and I am giving a suggestion that you need to try something different for a part that isn't good.

One of the greatest problems that has surfaced in this area is that while "little Johnny" is growing up, he is filled with nothing but praise.  After a while "Little Johnny" starts to realize that some things he is doing are not as good as they should be, but he is still getting praise.  This often has an opposite effect on the "self-esteem" *building* that many thought the *praise* was accomplishing.  The "Little Johnny" grows up and can not deal with out getting all the "praise" all the time.  It's a *little* to much "reality shock".  He is realizing what he knew all along.  That he wasn't REALLY doing great all the time.  he was just having smoke blown up his butt.  We can give partial *THANKS* to one of the biggest BAD INFLUENCES ever, one Dr. Spock.

There was actually a time when you had try outs and a player had to make the team.   Otherwise they had to try next year.  Now, more teams are created and there are even rules that require that each player participate a certain length of time in each game. Then each player gets a "Trophy" for being a member of a team, even if it goes "0 and "20!  A "participation trophy', for which nothing other than being able to breath was required.  This does not breed a good feeling of self worth.  Instead, it tends to breed false feelings of accomplishment.  A problem that can surface later when adversity is met.

Competition is NOT a four letter word, but there are so many well meaning (but poorly informed) Soccer Moms, and Little League Dads around that kids are no longer developing a true feeling of self worth as happened in the past.

As to Michael, I met him 25 or so years ago.  He was cut his Sophomore year in HS. (I also know the Coach who did that)  Not due to his ability, but more to get his attitude in line.  It worked!

OK, I will jump off the soap box now, but this IS an area I know way too much about.
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2007, 11:18:04 AM »

I always told the player that he needed to work on whatever he was doing wrong.  Like: "Doug,  your round eights are really pretty good, but the square eights need some work.  How about trying it this way.  It will seem strange, but try it and give it time to get use to it."  I have not alienated you at the beginning (told you something you were doing pretty good) and I am giving a suggestion that you need to try something different for a part that isn't good.


This is all I was saying.  Leading a criticism with a compliment is a good way to not be 100% negative.

Also, if you are playing a sport, it is obvious your coach is there to COACH.  Everyone knows that when they take the field.  If you play these team oriented sports, you accept the fact that there will be a loud guy in nylon pants that will be yelling at you a lot.

Stunt is an individual sport.  It takes the student to give himself over to a coach.  The relationship is not obvious like in football, baseball, soccer, etc.  There is very little "team" in stunt.  Most of the stunt fliers I know are, by definition, loners.

The first step in being coached is admitting you suck at something (if not everything) and you need coaching, the second step is to BELIEVE that you can improve with help.  When you stop taking coaching and striving to achieve higher levels of skill, you leave yourself wide open to being passed by someone is being successfully coached.

It would be interesting to put a group of stunt fliers in a team setting like you see with other sports.  In this atmosphere the coaching would be FORCED (I doubt that most football players would CHOOSE to run stairs, do wind sprints until they puke, run drills, etc).  When you are a truly coached, the individual does not get to make a choice of what you will, and will not do---0the coach makes that decision.  Stunt is 100% self motived, and in that respect the flier is left to decide what is in his own best interests.  Oftentimes, this is not the right direction (I am sure most football players would rather just play in the games than practice at all).  It takes a special person to be able to see their own mistakes and correct them.... and be right.

I wish I would have known what I know now 10-15 years ago... I would be wayyyyyyy better now.  To Bill's point, I really thought I was better than I was, simply out of ignorance...and I have no idea what Star Trek has to do with it. :-*
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 11:49:17 AM by Bradley Walker »
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2007, 11:57:52 AM »
"The first step in being coached is admitting you suck at something (if not everything) and you need coaching, the second step is to BELIEVE that you can improve with help.  When you stop taking coaching and striving to achieve higher levels of skill, you leave yourself wide open to being passed by someone is being successfully coached."

HI Brad

This can be the case but I have not found that so far, I have coached many dozens of people and in Precision Aerobatics things are most often differant. 
I do not find flyers "suck" at maneuvers as much as they can't see that they are doing them wrong. In most every single case I have dealt with the flyer has the ability to do the manover much better but doesn't know what to do or how to improve the maneuver....in many cases they don't even know they are doing it wrong...or have a clue how to fix it.
Examples are most common on curving the wing over,flat bottoms of loops, making squares longer than they are tall. making the triangles too flat,laying over the hourglass to the right hand side thus shifting the tops 10 to 30 degrees off center, square eights too big and way too wide, overhead eights have intersections off to whatever hand you fly with..right hand flyers tend to do them over the right shoulder not overhead, vise versa for lefties,  flying thru the loops of the fourleaf.  These are  all common mistakes flyers make and most do not realize they are making them.
So in my case I have found most have the talent and abilities to fly much better but don't know how to start.
The other biggest mistake they make is lack of concentration, and not thinking about what they want to change...before.... starting that maneuver. when this happens the same mistake jumps right back in.
All of this is fixable, but as you say it has to be with the right person and they have to agree to do what the coach say to do   period!  If not it is just a waste of time.


Regards
Randy


Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brad's new plane
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2007, 03:07:06 PM »
NoArgumens, overall, Brad.  But, Team sports do come down to the individual.  And you Caoch the individual more than you do the team.

If a player doesn't want to do the stairs or sprints, or anything else, then they will NEVER be very good.  I learned very early on to love the drills, sprints, sweatig bleeding and all that goes with it.  Simlpy because I wasn't blessed with a ton of natural talent.  Puking was a part of life when you overextended, and it made you wonder sometimes that if you didn't, you might not have worked hard enough!  A player who doesn't love to bleed sweat and pay the price will ebnd up with only their natural talent, and with out the heart, they are very seldom really good.  The key to a successful team is to have successful individuals.

Aaron actually came to the middle of the circle yesterday and coached me in my square 8s.  One of the very few times I have been able to receive coaching when it comes to CLPA.   I worked hard to do what he was saying and to *see* what it looked like.  He was tippy toeing around being all nice.  That was nice, but I wanted to hear just exactly what was going on.  Don't sugar coat it too much, tell me in no uncertain terms.  THEN I can work to get better.  We only have a finite time, and I don't need to waste anymore of it! **)

Beam me up, Scotty! ;D
Big Bear <><

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