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Author Topic: Can this be repaired?  (Read 5088 times)

Offline Jim Treace

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Can this be repaired?
« on: February 02, 2009, 08:52:58 AM »
Saturday was a really pretty day in NW Tennessee. Finally warm in the mid 50's, bright and sunny, light winds. Took my completed reworked Tutor II out. Got 5 nice flights. Very nice flying. But then on the 6th. Outside loop upright entry...just started it too close to the ground. Punched an eight inch deep hole, broke off the front fuselage at the wing root.  Since this ARF is constructed of pretty weak materials, I don't really have much to work with for a repair. But thought others may have some experience or comments. Maybe I should just salvage the parts (Morris controls, etc), and call it quits for this plane! Bummer!
Jim
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2009, 09:18:25 AM »
Jim,

Absolutely, it can be!!  You can even borrow my shovel......... Oh, you meant the model?!! VD~

Actually, I have re-attached the nose to an ARF Flite Streak that experienced similiar trauma.  Take a bit of care with the alignment and use small bits of lite ply scabs internally with thick CA to get every thing back together.  Then, if you wish, some 1 oz. or 1.5 oz. glass cloth/epoxy on the outside of the repaired area......

Oh, and check for hidden damage to the rest of the structure------the wing center section will almost certainly have some fractured wood.

Good luck.

Jim
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Offline Bill Heher

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2009, 09:39:12 AM »
Repiar it!  Pull the engine and tank off and clean everything up to remove oil / fuel residue. Examine the internal structure to determine where the major pieces are located under the doublers, mark some reference lines on the outside to show where they are at.  Take time to inspect the rest of the airframe for other damage.

Draw a pair of horizontal lines parrallel to the engine bearers  that cross the break and pick up the area near the engine bearers, top and bottom. You will be installing some internal braces to carry the load across the break area and want to pick up some good structure to glue to.

Get some 1/4' or 3/8" carbon fiber tube and drill holes in the nose and fuse that will accept them with a bit of wiggle room. Dry fit the nose back to the rest of the fuselage with the tubes in the "sockets" you drilled and make sure you can get everything lined up properly. You might have to add some scrap balsa filler pieces to close in the area where the tube will be so you don't need a pint of epoxy. Rough up the tubes so that glue will stick well to them.

Mix up some 30 minute epoxy with micro-balloons or milled glass for filler, pack the sockets with the epoxy, pack some more in any area where it will help hold things together. Clamp / tape / CyA the two pieces together taking care to get it all aligned straight and let it dry. After it is fully cured take the clamps and such off and give the nose a good pull test, wiggle it around and see if it is solid. You might want to add a tripler to the inboard side for extra strength. Mount the engine and tank and test run it to make sure it holds together.

I've repaired a Flte Streak ARF using this method and when it finally met it's end the front end was still solid as a rock.  A bonus is that you worry less about banging it up and tend to relax a bit more when flying a " revived from the dead" plane.
Bill Heher
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 09:56:12 AM »
Bill,

It becomes a "free" model------well, sorta.

I have several that fit this catagory.......

Jim
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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 10:15:53 AM »
If you aren't too worried about looks, it is even simpler.  You can glue the reinforcing patches on the outside, use plywood or fiberglass cloth.  Stuff some balsa stubs into the hollow part for some more stiffening.  If you use Gorilla glue type stuff it will foam up and fill any gaps inside the nose.  My favorite, oldest Streak is fixed this way and that's probably why it is my favorite - I don't have to worry about it anymore.  There is "rebuilding" and there is "repairing".  Repairing is much quicker and easier, just kind of ugly. 
Russell Shaffer
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 10:18:28 AM »
Bill,

It becomes a "free" model------well, sorta.

I have several that fit this catagory.......

Jim

And I seem to keep getting more "free" models. This still is going to be a bit of challenge for me. Photos don't show it all, as the wood is completely fragmented at the fuselage and not much structure to the wood and not much to tie to. Good idea though to fill the voids. The fuselage is just a hollow frame. Rest of model is in pretty good shape, only a little monocoat tear. I have it cleaned up and beginning to get enthused to do something. Heck, it needed some nose weight anyway. Bet I can fix that!
Jim
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Offline Dalton Hammett

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 11:43:31 AM »
**************************************

     Definately fix the model.  If things like that couldn't be fixed I would never have anything to fly !!


  Dalton H.
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Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 01:59:41 PM »
Hey Jim,
My first guess was with Ty. I did that for one of our Flite Streaks. Just glue enough of it to use a a template to cut a new fuse. A profile fuse should not take that long to cut out. While you are at it cut two, that way you can have a spare to keep beating the ground with. LL~

Hope to see you in the spring.
Paul
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 02:19:57 PM »
Back in the 70s, I worked for a custom body shop. The owner, Al Watson, always told me that any car can be fixed, no matter how bad the damage. It all came down to what you wanted. If it's some family sedan that it's going to cost you hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to fix, it may not be worth it to you. It can be fixed, but do you want to? If it's a 1968 Ferrari Daytona Convertable that's worth a half mill, then the time and money is probably worth the costs. All comes down to what you want.

When I re-kit a plane, it sort of depends on a couple of factors on whether it goes into salvage mode or is repaired. How badly it's damaged "usually" doesn't enter into it (I mean, if it's scrap; bit of parts and no two pieces still glued together, then the exercise is academic). What I look at is: Was it a good flying plane before the crash? How much weight is likely to be added with a repair? Can this design stand the weight gain? And most important, will it be easier to repair the plane or build a new one?

Sometimes it's isn't all that easy to decide. I have a Novi sitting in my plane rack awaiting a decision. It needs an all new outboard wing. Probably need to be stripped back to the wood, rebuilt and refinished. It was a great flying plane and the repair will probably result in a lighter plane since I will have to refinish and the original finish was no lightweight.  The question remains, is it worth it? I haven't decided yet.
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2009, 02:37:52 PM »
This is based on my experience with two Tutor II plans. Build an entire new fuselage.

I may have to do this, but at this point would like to salvage it. Wing, tail and aft portion of fuselage are OK.
Once I get this done, big issue may be weight. I had it pretty nice at 47oz, but this may take it over the top. If I make a entirely new fuselage, I have to completely cut the remaining fues from the wing, and cut loose the vert and horz stab and elevator. And then I still have an ARF wing. So, maybe keep it simple and try the fuse to wing repair. I kind of have it already lined up on the jig, so....maybe it'll work?
Jim
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 04:16:36 PM »
Just build and splice on a new nose for it.  Shouldn't be that hard to strip some of the area forward of the spar and make sure wing is solid.  When you splice new nose on add an inboard tripler as they call it as well as new plywood back to high point of the wing.   Keep us posted.  DOC Holliday
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Offline Richard Grogan

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2009, 04:55:12 PM »
Good ideas, and you could even use hardwood dowels from the hardwood mounts back into the fuse over and under the CG. Just temporary scab it together, draw lines on the motor mounts and fuse side to mark centerlines, and drill out holes for the dowels.Put it all back together with 60 minute epoxy. Ugly if you dont use new ply doublers and repaint/recover it, but stronger than it was before the crash!
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Online Alan Buck

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2009, 05:39:54 PM »
Yes it can repaired but I'm with John's thinking build a new nose and splice it on. Bob Z. repaired/rebuilt the first arf cardinal that was handed to him in two bags
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2009, 06:26:08 PM »
I vote for the new solid nose. It's even better if done before the thing is ever assembled the first time. Too late for that now, but you can make it better than new. Do what The Doctor said!  :! Steve
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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2009, 07:21:15 PM »
So, it is just about unanamous.  One way or another, you should fix the thing. You can make it pretty again, or do it my way and it will be ugly but flyable and stronger than new.  A whole new nose grafted in and smoothed over would be the best looking but I would patch up the one you have.
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2009, 05:12:51 PM »
I vote for the new solid nose. Steve

Well, to me this does sound more appealing and a good idea...a new nose! This way I could get a stronger engine mount platform and keep the weight within reason. The original "nose" is nearly hollow and has little strength structure to it and to repair would add significant weight. "A new nose; All in favor.....!"
Jim
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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2009, 06:37:12 PM »
Do it.
Russell Shaffer
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2009, 03:04:02 PM »
OK, finally finished repairs. Constructed a new front end epoxied into frame and nose with three 5/16" square rods set 4 inches into both frame and new nose. Upon wing autopsy found some damage and required some LE repair. Aligned it all, sanded down, then two covering coats of thinned epoxy, sprayed black LusterKote and had to use silver monocoat on wing. Was running out of supplies.
Reset a new engine (after bench running), ST G .51 , 4 1/2 oz tank. Ground ran it three times. Gee..front end did NOT come off! So, I guess I can give it a fly tomorrow. Oh, and all of this only added 1 1/2 oz. So maybe it will be OK after all.
Jim
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Online Alan Buck

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2009, 04:16:36 PM »
Jim, the repair job looks good. check the tank it looks to be nose down a bit and should be level to start and a 1/4 above center of the glow plug . hope the test flights go good for you   
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2009, 05:55:12 PM »
Yup, forward portion of tank slid down a bit when I tightened the straps. I will re-shim it and get it level. I have the tank centerline set about 5/16" above centerline of the NV.
Jim
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Offline Bryan Higgins

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2009, 05:58:07 PM »
Great repair job Jim. Looks good. (PE**)
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Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2009, 06:29:02 PM »
Looks great Jim.

Where is the panty hose and O-ring?
Paul
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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2009, 08:24:45 PM »
Nice repair job.  How about the next time I have a disaster, I just bag it up and send it to you?
Russell Shaffer
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2009, 08:25:37 PM »


Where is the panty hose and O-ring?

Paul, panty hose and O-ring go on as dress up for the circle.
Jim Treace
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Offline Richard Grogan

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2009, 11:31:12 PM »
Good job Jim! Glad you decided on the joiner rods. Now just don't wreck it again!  LL~  Just kiddin' of course!  H^^ Should fly like new.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Can this be repaired?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2009, 08:48:54 AM »
Glad to see you did the rebuild/repair.  Saved a lot of time didn't it?  That is one thing about profiles, is that the nose usually comes off before too much damage.  Let us know how it flies.  DOC Holliday
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