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Author Topic: California fliers. how are you?  (Read 2884 times)

Offline Will Hinton

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California fliers. how are you?
« on: November 13, 2018, 05:10:10 PM »
Hi California dudes.  Is everyone in safety out there?  I remember David had a close call the last time this went crazy, hope that isn't the case again.  Ted?  Larry?  Brett? Walter? Gid? Others?
This is perhaps the greatest tragedy in your state since the San Francisco fire.  I know these others have been pure devistation, but this time just seems even more so.
You folks have our prayers.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 05:57:32 PM »
Hi California dudes.  Is everyone in safety out there?  I remember David had a close call the last time this went crazy, hope that isn't the case again.  Ted?  Larry?  Brett? Walter? Gid? Others?
This is perhaps the greatest tragedy in your state since the San Francisco fire.  I know these others have been pure devistation, but this time just seems even more so.
You folks have our prayers.

       Everybody in the Bay area (Ted/Larry/Brett/David) is OK, aside from very bad air quality. Walter should be good, so should Gid. Clint, Don Chandler, I don't know, that's pretty close to the Camp fire (Paradise).

    My boss had 3 houses in Paradise (his own, daughters, and sons) that are all completely gone. He lived here during the week and drove up Thursday nights, now, I think they moved to his place here for a while.

     Brett

     

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 07:38:52 PM »
Thanks Brett.  I simply cannot begin to imagine the scope of helplessness at a time like that.
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Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 10:13:31 PM »
       Everybody in the Bay area (Ted/Larry/Brett/David) is OK, aside from very bad air quality. Walter should be good, so should Gid. Clint, Don Chandler, I don't know, that's pretty close to the Camp fire (Paradise).

    My boss had 3 houses in Paradise (his own, daughters, and sons) that are all completely gone. He lived here during the week and drove up Thursday nights, now, I think they moved to his place here for a while.

     Brett
How bad is the air quality? Whats the Air Quality Index looking like?  We had it very bad this past summer with one day at almost 400 on the AQI scale, and quite a few well past 300.

Gary

     
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 10:26:07 PM »
How bad is the air quality? Whats the Air Quality Index looking like?  We had it very bad this past summer with one day at almost 400 on the AQI scale, and quite a few well past 300.


   Highest I saw was 200, but you can't see across the bay, and it looks like twilight all the time.


     Brett

Offline Larry Fernandez

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 11:53:27 PM »
Hi California dudes.  Is everyone in safety out there?  I remember David had a close call the last time this went crazy, hope that isn't the case again.  Ted?  Larry?  Brett? Walter? Gid? Others?
This is perhaps the greatest tragedy in your state since the San Francisco fire.  I know these others have been pure devistation, but this time just seems even more so.
You folks have our prayers.

As Brett stated, we in the Bay Area, are out of danger. What was amazing, was that I知 over two hundred miles away from the Camp Fire, and my cars were covered with ash on Sunday afternoon.
Imagine, a complete town, burned to the ground.
My heart goes out to those who have lost so much, lives, property and pets. I honestly cannot wrap my mind around what that community has gone through.
I知 not a religious sort, but I wonder, if there really is a loving and just god, how can he let something like this happen, and sleep tonight. Just saying.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2018, 02:09:21 AM »
As Brett stated, we in the Bay Area, are out of danger. What was amazing, was that I知 over two hundred miles away from the Camp Fire, and my cars were covered with ash on Sunday afternoon.
Imagine, a complete town, burned to the ground.
My heart goes out to those who have lost so much, lives, property and pets. I honestly cannot wrap my mind around what that community has gone through.
I知 not a religious sort, but I wonder, if there really is a loving and just god, how can he let something like this happen, and sleep tonight. Just saying.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Larry, you didn't ask for an answer, and this really isn't the place to have a protracted discussion, but here is a brief response.
This could be the result of two things, and there is biblical support for either.  It could literally be as simple as the  predictable result of the corrupted and fallen state of creation. Creation that was made perfect, but was corrupted with sin through Adam's transgression. Thru Adam's sin death and decay entered the world, and this continues to this day.   The other possibility is a judgment on the wickedness of our society, which seems at its worst in California.
Either way, I can assure you that God takes no pleasure in the suffering of His creation.  Its difficult to formulate a truly satisfactory response to such a question after such a terrible event.  I wish I could offer you more.

Gary
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2018, 07:31:41 AM »
As far as I know, all us So.Cal. Guys are OK.

The fire in Malibu got to about a half mile of my brother痴 place. He got burned out around 1964. His current house has an aluminum roof and sprinklers under the eves. Also a huge water tank up the hill, personal fire hydrant and his own hoses.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2018, 09:20:57 AM »
Gary's answer is spot on, and well said.  when God set this old globe to spinning He put natural laws into place that, if broken, produce nasty results.  That's why we don't jump off buildings without pain, and why wrongly lighted fires can produce such horrendous pain and loss.  He leaves most of these things up to humankind.
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Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2018, 10:13:53 AM »
As far as I know, all us So.Cal. Guys are OK.

The fire in Malibu got to about a half mile of my brother痴 place. He got burned out around 1964. His current house has an aluminum roof and sprinklers under the eves. Also a huge water tank up the hill, personal fire hydrant and his own hoses.
Your brother has apparently planned well. I'm amazed that the people's republic of California allows such independent preparedness.   Good for him!!!

Gary
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 10:54:14 AM »
Wouldn't it be so much simpler to keep the brush cut back?  Also there is sorted fire proof items that can be used on a house.  I only hope that the fires or extinguished with out much more damage.   I know here in Kansas and when I lived in Missouri we would have field burnings to cut down on brush and weeds.   But we also cut fire breaks and didn't burn if wind was blowing.   Several times coming home from Tuscon we had to slow down on highway because of smoke.  Of course right here in my neighborhood years ago before burning ban a gentleman was burning leaves when it got windy and caught his house on fire.  Burned to the ground and lucky none of adjoining houses caught fire.
Now I don't worry about leaves as all the trees have been removed from my property before they did any more damage.  Fence around my yard has been rebuilt twice. 

By the way,  GOD never sleeps or condones making people suffer. D>K
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 11:22:11 AM »
During my many years in the So. Cal area, it seems that Malibu Canyon got burned out every few years, almost like an established tradition.  That people re-build in the same place, only to get burned out again and again, is a puzzlement to me.

Unlike floods or storm surges, housing cannot be built to withstand such fires.  Re-building after a fire only means you are protected until the next fire.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2018, 12:39:46 PM »
Wouldn't it be so much simpler to keep the brush cut back?

  Two problems - most of what you call brush are deep forests and some of it is in what we call hills, but you would call mountains, with deep canyons, it's not that easy. What people call mountains in the East and Midwest would not be noted here, the Appalachians are what we we normally call a line of low hills. Even near Malibu there are very deep canyons and steep hills, that haven't been ground down by 150 million years of erosion.

  The other problem is that the Sierra Club has repeatedly sued to ensure that the forest management systems like removing dead trees, etc, was stopped, to preserve the wild part of the wilderness. They don't care, and actually are counting on, these fires destroying people's houses and property, because they want people to stop living there, and the best way to prevent that is to have their houses burn down.

     Brett

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2018, 03:19:37 PM »
Can someone explain to me why the houses and cars are burnt to the ground, but the trees are still standing, some with still green foliage on them. It makes no sense to me. Something we are not being told. I did see one of the giant redwoods burning from the inside out. Very strange happenings.

My youngest Son lives just east of the bay area in Patterson. So far so good. My heart goes out to those who are now homeless. I can not imagine.
Jim Kraft

Offline BYU

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2018, 03:49:48 PM »
housing cannot be built to withstand such fires.

I agree, if you insist on building a house out of highly flammable materials like wood, felt and glass fiber as we do here.

Try Concrete, Stone, Ceramic and Steel like the rest of the modern world and homes would have a much better chance of survival.

From viewing live pictures of the fires over the last 2 years it seems that the fires pass from home to home by igniting the roofs, which are usually either covered in highly flammable felt or glass fiber shingles.






Offline Target

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2018, 04:32:32 PM »
Almost anything will burn when it's blowing 50+. And you would be amazed how far a burning ember will travel and start a new blaze. Much of the area is inaccessible also. It required air drops.
On my drive home last friday morning,  my normal drive is pch through malibu, then cutting through Santa Monica to the 405. I had to take 101 to the 23N to 118E to 5S to 110S to get home. 97 miles vice 73.
Every freeway i drove on except the 110 had unattended small fires burning visible from my car. All the resources were helping with evac or fighting fire on the front line. It was brutal.
Even Point Mugu Base was evacuated Friday.

R,
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2018, 06:38:07 PM »
Concrete, stone, ceramic and steel can have issues in a location that also has magnitude 7 earthquakes. That said, concrete roof tiles that imitate clay tile work well, but the house has to be built with a tile roof in mind. The load is too great for a house with standard framing. Sheet steel roofs seem to be gaining in popularity now--and not just in snowy, mountain areas.

These firestorms are fierce. They superheat the air and create their own draft. A pine tree will explode into fire. The SoCal fire crossed the best firebreak that there is:  probably 8 lanes of concrete freeway. A completely sterile zone that can be patrolled at high speed. But you might need a half mile wide zone when the wind blows that hard....

My sincere sympathies to all of those affected,

Dave
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 03:20:45 PM by Dave Hull »

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2018, 06:56:18 PM »
Can someone explain to me why the houses and cars are burnt to the ground, but the trees are still standing, some with still green foliage on them. It makes no sense to me. Something we are not being told. I did see one of the giant redwoods burning from the inside out. Very strange happenings.


    There is no conspiracy or real question what happened at least about the Camp fire. Some PG&E lines fell and almost certainly started it, and the winds were in the 50 mph range when it happened. Started about sunup last Thursday, by the end of the day, most of the town of Paradise was gone. It hasn't rained any significant rainfall since probably January, and this followed a year where were were absolutely innudated with much more rain than normal. The previous winter rains stimulated extreme growth, it has then had nearly two years to dry out, you get the ignition source and the extreme winds, it's a formula for a firestorm. The fire caught people fleeing in cars down the road, it happened so fast that you just couldn't get away.

        Brett

  p.s. for Gary - we had a good morning, pollution-wise, with an AQI below 100. This afternoon, it degenerated to the point you couldn't really see more than about a block, and the AQI is now about 210 in Santa Clara. I think they sent kids home from school this afternoon (which seems to happen at about 180, from what I can gather). It's 1456 in Paradise right now.


Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2018, 09:43:52 PM »
Thanks for the update Brett.  That AQI in Paradise is amazing!    Back in 1980 when Mt St Helens blew up the AQI, and the instrumentation that generates it, didn't exist, so any efforts to compare that day with today are at best speculative.  But at the height of the ash fallout (3-4 pm) , which was an absolutely surreal event to experience (I know, I was there), some today believe that the current AQI might have recorded 800-1000.  It was night time at mid day, and the ash absorbed so much sound (from what little was moving) that it was almost silent outside.

But back to Paradise, I just cannot imagine what that must be like to deal with.  The entire town was virtually erased.

Gary
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2018, 08:53:38 AM »
Thanks for the update Brett. I never heard what stated the fire. I suppose it was something like that, that started the fire in Malibu. And as you say, no rain plus no brush clearing spells disaster. A sad state of affairs for everyone out there.
Jim Kraft

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2018, 10:55:45 AM »
Thanks for the update Brett. I never heard what stated the fire. I suppose it was something like that, that started the fire in Malibu. And as you say, no rain plus no brush clearing spells disaster. A sad state of affairs for everyone out there.

     I think a lot of people just don't grasp how remote some of these areas can be, even in the populated areas. This is not like the east, were most places you go, someone has been there for centuries. Here we can have deep almost untouched forest a few miles from the most densely populated areas, and steep mountains and deep canyons. You can be driving along on flat ground at an elevation a few feet above sea level for hours and hours, then, in the space of 15 minutes, you are at 4000 feet. On a (rare) clear day, you can see it 100 miles away. An hour later, you are back at sea level in the middle of the LA basin. In between is a national forest, much of which is nearly inaccessible.

   Same with the Sierras, even more so, although it's not nearly as abrupt. Start at sea level in (boiling hot, >100 degrees in the summer) Sacramento, going along I-80, and in a little over an hour, you are at 7000+ feet near Donner Summit and there might be snow on the ground, even in the summer. Surrounding this is some of the densest virgin forest and sometimes 50-60 feet of snow accumulation. Same going north, you are cruising along on the flat, within an hour, you are up at 3500 feet in a massive mountain range that a lot of people haven't even heard of (Shasta-Siskyou) , with huge volcanos right off the side of the road. There might be a Bigfoot villiage half a mile off the road, and you wouldn't know it.

    Combine this with the classic highly seasonal rainfall - innudated from November to March, and then *nothing*, I mean literally no rain at all, from March to November. It varies cyclicly, sometimes massive amounts of rain/snow fall (usually in a few big storms, 10 inches in a day rain), and everyplace floods, and all the reservoirs fill up, then piddled out over the dry season. Other times, you get nearly nothing even in the winter, and the reservoirs get lower and lower. Then it all repeats, over and over. The heavy rain years build up the forests and blow over dead trees, then they dry out in the dry years.

    The system counts on regular (natural) fires to maintain itself. Once people move in to the area, they can't let that happen, so for a long time, they would go out and clear the nearby forests regularly so not so much fuel builds up. Recently, this has been prevented by environmental activists, and the nutcases in Sacramento, so it just builds up. Add a few downed power lines, accidents (like the dragging trailer chains that started the Carr fire), and rare intentional starts, and it results in these runaway, uncontrollable fires.

   I would add that unlike a lot of places, you actually *can* just start a fire with a mere spark. I spent a lot of time in the boonies in Kentucky, Arkansas, and Loiusiana, it's hard to start a fire on purpose. Drop a match, or burning cotton balls, on a typical field or tree, it just goes out. Not here.


   Note that the environmentalists both permit the creation of these situations, and then exploit the tragedies afterwards. I am sure that some of them probably realize that they are doing it and want it to happen, so they can have tragedies to exploit. Moonbeam has used every chance he can get to blame global warming, where any disaster is "proof", and any counter-example is lobbying from the oil and goal industries. Weather is not climate when it's cold, but weather IS climate when it's hot, or you have too much rain, or not enough rain, or too many hurricanes, or not enough hurricanes. The willingness to exploit tragedies like the fires is blatant.

      Brett
     

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2018, 11:19:17 AM »
"Note that the environmentalists both permit the creation of these situations, and then exploit the tragedies afterwards. I am sure that some of them probably realize that they are doing it and want it to happen, so they can have tragedies to exploit. Moonbeam has used every chance he can get to blame global warming, where any disaster is "proof", and any counter-example is lobbying from the oil and goal industries. Weather is not climate when it's cold, but weather IS climate when it's hot, or you have too much rain, or not enough rain, or too many hurricanes, or not enough hurricanes. The willingness to exploit tragedies like the fires is blatant."


Bravo, Brett! Might add that the media has fallen into step with all the bullshit artists in government and Hollyweird. They feed on it like a pack of dogs.  >:( Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2018, 01:10:40 PM »
There used to be a CL guy on SSW (I think before SH) that lived in "Paradise, CA". I can't recall his name, but he had grown up in the Bothell, WA area, and flew combat. At one time, I traded a few PM's or emails with him. I hope he got out ok.

Not too far away lives long time FAI FF and CL stunt guy Dick Meyers. I'll send him an email. I'm not sure what town he lives in now, but I believe he used to live in Gridley and moved somewhere nearby.

There are some CL guys in Simi Valley and Santa Barbara area, so I hope they'll check in as soon as possible. Greg Bahrman, Derek Moran, Bill Barber & others...please check on your flying acquaintances and post here about their situation, whether safe or otherwise.   y1 Steve

"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2018, 02:07:25 PM »
I'm about 30 miles from the camp fire area and this is what it looks here. (Not my house)
-Clint-

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: California fliers. how are you?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2018, 03:05:44 PM »
Heard back from Dick Meyers already. He's in Tracy now, and sounds like he's fine. Dick mentioned Andy Estrada, who was the fellow from Paradise that I mentioned in my post above. Below is part of Dick's reply.

"We all knew that Paradise was a fire trap!! They had only one four lane in and out. Lots of oldsters and many unable to get out. They have found 56 bodies so far, but I知 sure that will get much worse as they go from house to house. Very sad for sure. Thanks for thinking about this old cuss!!! Dick Myers"    D>K Steve

"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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