Author Topic: CA preservation? (Read 3109 times)

wwwarbird · « **on:** December 22, 2010, 09:13:08 PM »

Stupid Move #265:

Forgetting that I had already done so, I recently picked up a second new $14.00 bottle of CA at the LHS.

I have noticed that CA thickens up over time, to the point where it becomes unusable. Is there a "non-mythical" way of preserving it, or do I just have to build quicker for a while?

Years ago, I remember hearing that storing it in the freezer would help, but I don't know if there is anything to that.

ray copeland · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22, 2010, 09:29:53 PM »

Wayne , i too have had "sticker shock" recently at the price of CA. Especially since i have to use odor free because of an instant sinus condition from the regular kind these days. I can say i have only had one instance where the glue solidified in the bottle and i am not sure why. My solution so far is to wipe the tip after each use and make sure the cap is on tight, so far, so good. Hopefully someone on here has a real solution to our economic stress. Merry Christmas, Ray

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #2 on:** December 22, 2010, 09:38:30 PM »

I store my UNOPENED CA in the fridge and have had it last fine for over a year. I never put opened containers in the fridge. Also I don't recommend getting bottles over an ounce. Just have to use it after it is opened.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #3 on:** December 22, 2010, 09:42:50 PM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on December 22, 2010, 09:38:30 PM

I store my UNOPENED CA in the fridge and have had it last fine for over a year. I never put opened containers in the fridge. Also I don't recommend getting bottles over an ounce. Just have to use it after it is opened.

Yup. I always have a backup in the freezer.

Leester · « **Reply #4 on:** December 22, 2010, 09:47:51 PM »

CA comes with a plastic cap so even after it's opened I just remove any applicator top and put the cap back on and set in the fridge. I don't have little children in the house so I'm not concerned about it being there.

Bill Little · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2010, 09:55:45 PM »

I have a little Dorm fridge in the basement that I brought home form my office when I retired. I have kept all the unopened bottles in there since I have it right at the building table. I haven't had the problem of it going bad as much these days as it used to. (knock on wood!)

Merry Christmas!

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2010, 12:13:56 AM »

Yep, new, un-opened bottles go in the freezer. Once opened don't put back in the freezer. The air inside condenses, sucks moisture into the bottle and shorten the life. When not in use, I close used bottles, and store in an empty peanut butter jar (PeterPan Crunchy!) that has some calcium chloride ice melt in the bottom of it. This acts as a desiccant and absorbs moisture and really extends the life of a bottle. And like someone else mentioned, I never buy larger than an ounce!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Dan McEntee

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2010, 07:07:53 AM »

I was in my buddy Lou's shop and he was using Dave Brown C/A Applicators. So I got me some.

You never punchure the tip of the bottle. You just unscrew the tip, pull out a little in the applicator and recap it.

My problem was the tip would get all clogged up with CA or the cap would get glue in it and you never get a tight seal. Then the glue gets hard.
Using the applicators keeps the bottle clean, and makes it last a little longer.

elizio · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2010, 12:43:00 PM »

Hi guys:
I use pure acetone (for analysis) to dilute the CA that was thicker with time.
elizio - Brazil

rustler · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2010, 01:37:48 PM »

In emergency when it has already gone too thick and no chance of buying a new bottle in time - I have done a gentle microwave, which gets it runny again. But I think it gets even thicker when it cools down.

George · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2010, 08:49:37 PM »

I have kept spare unopened bottles in the freezer too. I read somewhere years ago that you should take it out of the freezer the day before you need to use it so it can stabilize to room temperature. Not sure if this is really necessary, but I do it anyway.

George

Joe Messinger · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2010, 10:36:10 PM »

Elizio,

Where can one buy pure (analysis) acetone? The stuff I buy at Lowe's doesn't seem to have enough potency for some tasks like paint removal.

Thanks,

Joe

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2010, 10:47:58 PM »

Keeping it sealed is the key I think. I remember reading somewhere that CA kicks off when it hits the air (Oxygen).

elizio · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2010, 11:37:22 PM »

Hi Joe:
here in Brazil I buy pure acetone dealers in chemical products for clinical laboratories.
elizio

John McFayden · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2010, 06:21:03 AM »

The reply from Dan McEntee is the correct answer. Store unopened bottles only in fridge or freezer. Moisture causes the glue to kick hence the old trick of breathing on the wood just before or after applying the CA. Oxygen does not in itself cause curing. Putting an opened bottle back in the fridge only causes the moisture to condense as water and that causes the adhesive to cure. Moisture is the enemy. See the following notes from Wikipedia.

Generally, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin which rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together. Because the presence of moisture causes the glue to set, exposure to moisture in the air can cause a tube or bottle of glue to become unusable over time. To prevent an opened container of glue from setting before use, it must be stored in an airtight jar or bottle with a package of silica gel.

Leester · « **Reply #15 on:** December 24, 2010, 06:32:43 AM »

I guess I better take the opened bottle that is capped and still in liquid form that's been in the fridge for 2 months and dump it.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2010, 11:07:24 AM »

Isn't the humidity in a frig or freezer pretty low?

Bill Little · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2010, 02:18:07 PM »

Hi Guys,

I'm as tight with money as anyone on this planet. And I'm retired now on a fixed state retirement income, so it ain't gettin' any better. However, if I'm going to build and fly these things, buying a a new bottle of CA ain't going to kill me, or cause me to have to live on the street...... I haven't taken any extra precautions when I open a bottle, and recently, an open bottle on the bench, in my basement, has lasted for months. When it does kick off in the bottle, I will get another new one out of the fridge.

The CA glue is the cheapest thing in the model!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #18 on:** December 24, 2010, 07:50:25 PM »

Thanks for the info guys.

I could have been a bit more clear here, but my question and concern was only with storing a new, unopened bottle. With the two new bottles I now have I've probably got a little over a years' supply of CA.
Obviously, once a bottle is opened one has to consider capping and/or storage until it's used up. I'll typically install one of the long skinny "needle" type applicator tips as soon as I crack the seal on a new bottle and then it just sits "open" on my workbench, ready and waiting for use at all times until it's gone. It's not often that I even need to give it a prick to use it that next time. If necessary though, a quick poke with a T-pin wakes it right up again. I know this practice isn't "right" but I've been satisfied with the lifespan I've gotten so that's all that matters. With open bottles though, the peanut butter jar is a great idea and I may incorporate that into my program. Mine will be "Jif" though.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #19 on:** December 25, 2010, 07:42:42 AM »

Now you know why I buy the small 2 ounce bottle. Sometimes I use it up almost immediately and sometimes it becomes filler in places. As far as sticker shock try a quart of dope butyrate thinner at $20.00. As far as glues setting up I am going back to Elmer's Glue All. The bigger bottle of Wood Glue is curing in the bottle.

dave siegler · « **Reply #20 on:** December 25, 2010, 07:52:58 AM »

I have a glass pickle jar full of Desiccant stuff from walmart. It is in the home section called damp -rid or something like that. I als0 put my gorilla glue in there, and it extends the shelf life of that too.

dave

ray copeland · « **Reply #21 on:** December 25, 2010, 07:41:41 PM »

Dave, great tip!! I will give that a try for my CA and Gorilla glue.

Bill Little · « **Reply #22 on:** December 25, 2010, 08:05:23 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on December 25, 2010, 07:42:42 AM

As far as sticker shock try a quart of dope butyrate thinner at $20.00.

Which is exactly why I haven't used butyrate thinner in my dope for decades. When DuPont 3608S works perfectly and is still around 1/4 the cost..

Big Bear

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #23 on:** December 25, 2010, 08:25:23 PM »

I know that no one is going to believe this but I just used a bottle of CA from Balsa USA that was in my freezer since 2003. It works and it shouldn't at that age.It was new and I had it wrapped in another freezer bag. There are also 4 other 2 oz bottles in there.
I'm pretty sure that it's shelf life now that it is opened will be shorter then usual but thats fine. The glue joints seem to be just as good as fresh new glue so I'll keep using it in non critical applications.
Dennis

George · « **Reply #24 on:** December 26, 2010, 09:44:13 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on December 24, 2010, 11:07:24 AM

Isn't the humidity in a frig or freezer pretty low?

The problem is not the humidity in the freezer, it's the moisture that forms as it returns to room temperature. If you open the CA while it's frozen, moisture can form on the inside of the bottle.

Of course this may only apply to some brands, but I'll take the extra step...just in case.

Actually, I no longer buy in bulk, I just run down to my LHS and get some.

George

Bill Little · « **Reply #25 on:** December 27, 2010, 08:28:17 AM »

Quote from: George Bain on December 26, 2010, 09:44:13 PM

The problem is not the humidity in the freezer, it's the moisture that forms as it returns to room temperature. If you open the CA while it's frozen, moisture can form on the inside of the bottle.

Of course this may only apply to some brands, but I'll take the extra step...just in case.

Actually, I no longer buy in bulk, I just run down to my LHS and get some.

George

Hi George,

I cannot run 40+ miles. The longest I ever ran was right at 12 miles. And that was in my teenage years.

Happy New Year!

George · « **Reply #26 on:** December 29, 2010, 12:29:36 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on December 27, 2010, 08:28:17 AM

Hi George,

I cannot run 40+ miles. The longest I ever ran was right at 12 miles. And that was in my teenage years.

Happy New Year!

Actually, the on-foot part is only half a block. The other five miles is in my car.

Don't think I could EVER run 12 miles!

Happy New Year to you too...well, Happy New Year to everyone!

George

john e. holliday · « **Reply #27 on:** December 29, 2010, 04:26:44 PM »

Watched on on the Military channel about the Sappers. Supposed to be the elite of the elite. First day of training the guys had to run 12 miles in 3 hours or less. The last one in was at 3 hours and 15 minutes. He got sent back to his old unit. I remember gym class in which we had to cover 1 mile in less than 10 minutes. Running was not one of my assets. But I could work half the sports teams into the ground throwing hay bales and cutting wood.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #28 on:** December 29, 2010, 05:53:48 PM »

CA is supposed to "go off" when there's an absence of air. I don't know if it's the oxygen or nitrogen, or humidity, or whatever. Bob & Billy Hunter (Hot Stuff) said to leave the cap off, keep the tube unplugged, and the Hot Stuff would last quite awhile. I always followed that, and had no gripes. I tended to prefer Hot Stuff thin, but C.Goldberg thick. I won a bottle of kicker once, but didn't really like it. I sometimes use a baby nasal syringe with baking soda to light off the CA. I started using Hot Stuff in '72, when you had to mail order it...by snail mail.

Steve

Bill Little · « **Reply #29 on:** December 30, 2010, 12:06:20 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on December 29, 2010, 04:26:44 PM

Watched on on the Military channel about the Sappers. Supposed to be the elite of the elite. First day of training the guys had to run 12 miles in 3 hours or less. The last one in was at 3 hours and 15 minutes. He got sent back to his old unit. I remember gym class in which we had to cover 1 mile in less than 10 minutes. Running was not one of my assets. But I could work half the sports teams into the ground throwing hay bales and cutting wood.

HI Doc,

My Jr. High and High School Coach (and later the first AD I worked for) was an ex DI. He felt he was a combination of Vince Lombardi, Bear Bryant, and Lee Emry.
But we all loved him! LOL!! He felt you could never run enough. He didn't believe in lifting weights (not too many did back then) so we did all the "'Body Training", like climbing ropes, peg boards, pull ups, etc... Of course he was told in 1951 he would never walk again so he ended up running in a marathon! LOL!! Not bad for a guy 5'9'' and about 215 lbs. and he ran the whole way. Up until he passed away, he rode his bike (single speed) to work every day, about 10 miles each way. His knees were so bad the Doctors finally forced him to quit him running!

Figured if he could run, I could...........

(but I hated it, and I NEVER ran a marathon! LOL!!)

Big Bear

George · « **Reply #30 on:** December 30, 2010, 09:51:16 AM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on December 29, 2010, 05:53:48 PM

CA is supposed to "go off" when there's an absence of air. I don't know if it's the oxygen or nitrogen, or humidity, or whatever. Bob & Billy Hunter (Hot Stuff) said to leave the cap off, keep the tube unplugged, and the Hot Stuff would last quite awhile. I always followed that, and had no gripes. I tended to prefer Hot Stuff thin, but C.Goldberg thick. I won a bottle of kicker once, but didn't really like it. I sometimes use a baby nasal syringe with baking soda to light off the CA. I started using Hot Stuff in '72, when you had to mail order it...by snail mail. Steve

Steve,
I remember when "Hot Stuff" came on the market...it was all over the model mags. If I remember correctly, initially it came in 1/4 oz. round bottles, and was only available in thin consistancy. I remember dusting baking soda on with a brush to fill gaps (or make fillets), then add a drop of CA (CyA in those days). Previously, I had used its predecessor, Eastman 910 in an industrial application a couple of times. Perhaps it is anaerobic but it also activates with moisture contained in wood and other things. That's why kicker is used with materials that do not contain moisture.

This is all from memory so I hope it is still correct...that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

George

Bill Adair · « **Reply #31 on:** January 04, 2011, 03:58:55 PM »

We used Eastman 910 in the AF, and got it in pint, or quart bottles. Mostly used to glue accelerometers to various locations on guidance systems that were being run on the rocket sleds. To my knowledge they never had one come loose during a run, and they were easy to remove by holding a small piece of wood against the base, and tapping it with a small hammer!

Never heard a single complaint about it setting up in the bottle, and no special handling was used. Just replace the screw cap, and sit it back on the shelf.

This was in New Mexico (Holloman AFB) at approximately 4300' of altitude, so humidity was extremely low. So low in fact that many of us had frequent nose bleeds, until we got used to the dry climate.

Bill