stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: RC Storick on October 02, 2012, 07:02:41 PM
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There has been many attempts in trying to do away with the BOM at the NATS. This is the only place you must comply to fly in J.S.O. If the anti BOM group is truly interested in growing the hobby why not sponsor a new event somewhere in the US , Fly AMA or FAI rules your choice. But why keep trying to tear down a already successful event. Maybe a cash bash to grab interest?
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I've been saying this for years, if you don't like it, start a new event. Seems like a no brainer to me.
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If the anti BOM group is truly interested in growing the hobby why not sponsor a new event somewhere in the US , Fly AMA or FAI rules your choice.
There already are contests where there is not a BOM rule. Some people just do not want to recognize that the BOM rule can be retained but that contests do not need to be run with a BOM rule. Instead, they want to just eliminate it even though the majority of CLPA enthusiasts want to keep it.
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There already are contests where there is not BOM rule. Some people just do not want to recognize that the BOM rule can be retained but that contests do not need to be run with a BOM rule. Instead, they want to just eliminate it even though the majority of CLPA enthusiasts want to keep it.
The only way to make money selling airplanes is to tap the market of people who want perfectly-finished airplanes to fly at the NATs, and don't care what it costs. All without doing all the groundwork to start up a new event. Whining about BOM on the internet is darn cheap and easy, particularly when you can proxies, unwitting dupes, and the naive' to do most of the work for you.
No one is ever going to make more than a pittance selling ARF Flite Streaks, etc. This has been and always will be about finding a way to sell super-costly elitist airplanes to a tiny few people, without having to admit it.
Brett
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The reason some people want to eliminate the rule is because they are honest with themselves and realize it is a joke. If the rule has to keep being watered down because some people aren't following it and nobody is willing to take a stand and tell them "no", then the problem is not with the people who are trying to eliminate the rule, it's with the people who are circumventing it. If Bob Hunt or Tom Morris (or anybody else) built your wing, then YOU didn't! This is not about beginners or intermediates flying ARF's or hand-me-downs, it's about people entering AMA stunt at the NATS. These are the people who should be able to completely build their own models, yet some are not. Blame them.
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Thank you Bill for a well thought out and truthful response. It has NOTHING to do with
trying to make money by selling a few dozen ARFs, or any other such nonsense.
Later, Steve
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The reason some people want to eliminate the rule is because they are honest with themselves and realize it is a joke. If the rule has to keep being watered down because some people aren't following it and nobody is willing to take a stand and tell them "no", then the problem is not with the people who are trying to eliminate the rule, it's with the people who are circumventing it. If Bob Hunt or Tom Morris (or anybody else) built your wing, then YOU didn't! This is not about beginners or intermediates flying ARF's or hand-me-downs, it's about people entering AMA stunt at the NATS. These are the people who should be able to completely build their own models, yet some are not. Blame them.
They have to live with them self's not me no anyone else. If a trophy is so important so be it. That's the bottom line don't worry about others. If it was up to me it would be flat stock only and you better document your build to prove you did everything.
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I agree with Brett it but I think it is less about making money and more about that tiny few people wanting a competitive advantage over others. Better finished planes than they can do themselves and better trimmed planes than they can do themselves.
Derek
Why are we having this conversation AGAIN????? HB~>
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Are the expensive ARF's really better than, say, an SV11 kit built straight and flown by a top flier?
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Are the expensive ARF's really better than, say, an SV11 kit built straight and flown by a top flier?
They fly quite well and they arrive with a finish that is as good or better than the best thing I have ever made. They are perfect, just add color.
Derek
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I wonder who it is that is just waiting in the wings to sell these high-zoot ARFs to the AMA event 322 public once the BOM is actually removed?
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I wonder who it is that is just waiting in the wings to sell these high-zoot ARFs to the AMA event 322 public once the BOM is actually removed?
LOL. I doubt they are worried about making 10 more sells to the US when the rest of the world is buying thier stuff.
Derek
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I'm not sure it's as much about ARFs as it is the local pros who want to clear their basement out and guys who would buy and compete with them. Heck, I can turn out 4-5 pretty decent planes a year.......
Dave
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Is it correct that Albert Einstein said. "Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and getting the same result"?
Feel free to correct me if I erred.
Chuck
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Is it correct that Albert Einstein said. "Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and getting the same result"?
Feel free to correct me if I erred.
Chuck
Then I must be insane. I fly the same pattern over and over and over hoping this time will be better than the last. n~ n~ n~ HB~> HB~> HB~>
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LOL. I doubt they are worried about making 10 more sells to the US when the rest of the world is buying their stuff.
Derek
But that is what keeps getting said. This is all driven by a few who want to make money selling high end ARFs to top end nats competitors. So, who are they? What company or person/persons is driving the rules proposals to remove the BOM?
If you examine that angle it makes no sense. There are what 75 top end competitors that on any given day can fight for the win at the nats. Of that 75-100 how many actually attend the nats? Then out of that number how many can plunk down $4000.00 on an ARF. And do it year in year out to make this business of selling high end arfs an actual viable business and an actual money maker? Even a small money maker would be very difficult.
If removing the BOM opened up the nation wide selling of high end ARFs then you may have a point. We see that over seas as the whole world is the market place. But that isn't what is being touted. What is being touted is this is aimed at the Nats 322 market place. That is a very small market. In many places the high end ARF is already a viable option as App points are no longer in play. So there is no starting disadvantage. I still don't see High Enders gaining ground. At least not in the pages of SN or on here where we regularly see contest results along with photos. Do you?
I know first hand from a long while back, as a long time supporter of removing the BOM, my angle back then it had nothing to do with money. I don't feel the same way today about BOM and my views have slowly changed about it over the past several years. Since I have ridden both sides of the fence I can tell you for many who wish it to be gone it isn't about and has nothing to do with money. No matter how many times people say it is.
Truth be told the real coin is in the low end arfs. The cost to produce is very low, the price point is competitive with a non built kit, they come ready to ship. For that reason they sell themselves and they do so at a high rate of speed. Volume puts the money in the pockets. Money in the hobby business is made selling parts and small ticket items. Mark up is 100% and the volume is high. Tom Morris doesn't bring ready made planes for sale to the nats. He brings parts and people raid his table like ants on a picnic basket.
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But that is what keeps getting said. This is all driven by a few who want to make money selling high end ARFs to top end nats competitors. So, who are they? What company or person/persons is driving the rules proposals to remove the BOM?
If you examine that angle it makes no sense. There are what 75 top end competitors that on any given day can fight for the win at the nats. Of that 75-100 how many actually attend the nats? Then out of that number how many can plunk down $4000.00 on an ARF. And do it year in year out to make this business of selling high end arfs an actual viable business and an actual money maker? Even a small money maker would be very difficult.
If removing the BOM opened up the nation wide selling of high end ARFs then you may have a point. We see that over seas as the whole world is the market place. But that isn't what is being touted. What is being touted is this is aimed at the Nats 322 market place. That is a very small market. In many places the high end ARF is already a viable option as App points are no longer in play. So there is no starting disadvantage. I still don't see High Enders gaining ground. At least not in the pages of SN or on here where we regularly see contest results along with photos. Do you?
I know first hand from a long while back, as a long time supporter of removing the BOM, my angle back then it had nothing to do with money. I don't feel the same way today about BOM and my views have slowly changed about it over the past several years. Since I have ridden both sides of the fence I can tell you for many who wish it to be gone it isn't about and has nothing to do with money. No matter how many times people say it is.
Truth be told the real coin is in the low end arfs. The cost to produce is very low, the price point is competitive with a non built kit, they come ready to ship. For that reason they sell themselves and they do so at a high rate of speed. Volume puts the money in the pockets. Money in the hobby business is made selling parts and small ticket items. Mark up is 100% and the volume is high. Tom Morris doesn't bring ready made planes for sale to the nats. He brings parts and people raid his table like ants on a picnic basket.
I agree, that's why I said that there is a tiny few that want a competitive advantage over the rest of us. I do not believe that it has anything to do with money. I can only think of one person who has complained about it hurting his business.
All this stuff has been discussed to death, I am not sure why it got brought up again.
Derek
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I can't remember if I stated this on here or not. The NATS and contests that use appearance points is the only places that BOM is in affect. I have stated also thru the years that there are people that do not have a place to built a competitive plane. I know Dave Trible has built in apartments/condominiums during his years and he could probably do much better if he had a big shop to work in. Some people are allergic to the stuff we use for models. Look at a couple of individuals that have problems with balsa dust even with masks. I also remember not that many years ago when a person competed with a prebuilt plane from over seas and nobody complained. Of corse I don't think he ever flew the plane at the NATS in stunt. I would love to see more people build their own planes to compete, but some just don't have the time or place. Yes we do have in our great country certain individuals that build components for other people. In fact I remember one that sold a plane ready to assemble the components in a wooden custom built case. Nobody complained then that I heard of. Yes people have gotten away with it for years because their friends don't want to upset the apple cart and protest. I say friends because to me the control line group is one big family of friends. After preceding statement may not have any more friends. I am one of the people that helped get rid of the BOM in racing and carrier. But, I don't think keeping BOM in those events would have helped anyway. I love it when I read about individuals spending a ton of money on prebuilt equipment to compete only to ge beat by someone tht learned the hardway how to built, trim and fly. We don't need another event.
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I could buy a $10K guitar...that doesn't make me Hose Feliciano.
I could also build one, but I'd still be required to play it.