Author Topic: Buder Park is flooded (Read 10669 times)

Fred Cronenwett · « **on:** December 28, 2015, 02:57:24 PM »

Buder Park in St Louis is flooded and the park is closed....so no Jan 1st flights for us!

Fred

Brett Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2015, 03:13:02 PM »

Quote from: Fred Cronenwett on December 28, 2015, 02:57:24 PM

Buder Park in St Louis is flooded and the park is closed....so no Jan 1st flights for us!

How deep is that, do you suppose? That looks like one serious flood. The Napa river used to give us a few inches every now and then, but nothing like that.

Brett

Howard Rush · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2015, 03:29:03 PM »

Brett lives in California. He's not used to water that's not surfable.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2015, 03:39:54 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on December 28, 2015, 03:32:33 PM

Based on the speed circle fence it appears to be four feet deep. This is not unusual. Back in 1982/3 or so I gave up CL due to the constant flooding of Buder Park and went into HO model railroading. Guess what I am working on during our current monsoon??

Brett Buck · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2015, 03:43:39 PM »

The second video is a flash steam engine!

Brett

Brett Buck · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2015, 03:49:38 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on December 28, 2015, 03:29:03 PM

Brett lives in California. He's not used to water that's not surfable.

The closest I am ever going to get to surfing is watching Apocalypse Now.

Brett

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2015, 04:21:58 PM »

The water is about 3-4 feet deep, it will drain off and we will be flying again soon. Not the first time Buder has been flooded.

Fred

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2015, 04:27:11 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on December 28, 2015, 03:43:39 PM

The second video is a flash steam engine!

Yes! And it goes at a pretty good clip, doesn't it?

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #8 on:** December 28, 2015, 04:42:11 PM »

Do you see the trees in the back ground of the speed circle? Imagine propane tanks for mobile homes sitting in them between 15 and 20 above ground level! The ground changes elevation at Buder over it's entire area. Water has been over those railroad tracks also. It is believed that I-44 will be closed tomorrow with water over the roadway. that is a few hundred yards behind Fred where he took the picture.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #9 on:** December 28, 2015, 06:25:41 PM »

Flash Steam is the next big thing for CL Stunt. I've been predicting it for years now.

Steve

Paul Walker · « **Reply #10 on:** December 28, 2015, 09:29:53 PM »

Dave, Orestes, and myself were at that very pond in the first video in 2012. The boats were not running when we were there though. Nice to see that it is still being used.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2015, 10:09:59 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on December 28, 2015, 09:29:53 PM

Dave, Orestes, and myself were at that very pond in the first video in 2012. The boats were not running when we were there though. Nice to see that it is still being used.

Looks pretty nice!

I never understood why you couldn't use some sort of ground effects system for tether boats, with only the prop in the water. Probably some rule about maintaining contact with the water, but this one spent a fair bit of time airborne, too.

Brett

wwwarbird · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2015, 10:15:01 PM »

Bummer, that's some serious water. Maybe it'll freeze in time and you can all fly off the "lake".

Us Piston Poppers are planning on meeting up New Year's Day for our annual "Frozen Fun Fly" starting at 11:00am. Oddly, it's usually our best attended club event.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2015, 08:57:06 AM »

Hey Dan and Fred what about your alternate site?

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2015, 09:28:44 AM »

Which goes to show that every modeler should have at least one sailboat to play with in emergency conditions, or like Ty, build a model railroad.

11290 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 30, 2015, 10:09:15 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kraft on December 29, 2015, 09:28:44 AM

Which goes to show that every modeler should have at least one sailboat to play with in emergency conditions, or like Ty, build a model railroad.

Personally, 5 RC sailboats AND an N scale model railroad.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2015, 05:40:28 AM »

The river is cresting today and has covered the interstate and lots of stores in the area, it will be awhile before we can get in there to see if here is any damage, this area had a similar flood in 2008

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #17 on:** December 31, 2015, 01:10:13 PM »

Quote from: Fred Cronenwett on December 31, 2015, 05:40:28 AM

The river is cresting today and has covered the interstate and lots of stores in the area, it will be awhile before we can get in there to see if here is any damage, this area had a similar flood in 2008

Looks like Bob Evans stayed dry..whew!

Brett Buck · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2015, 01:56:46 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on December 31, 2015, 01:10:13 PM

Looks like Bob Evans stayed dry..whew!

That was a close call!

Brett

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #19 on:** December 31, 2015, 05:14:18 PM »

John Moll went flying today and got this really good picture showing the CL and RC area, there was no sign of the Speed fence or the shelter visible in the CL area. that means we have at least 12-15 feet of water above ground in the CL area

With the river at 44 feet this is not surprising

Fred

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #20 on:** December 31, 2015, 05:23:06 PM »

  The landscape and typography of the area has really changed in the last twenty years or so. Where the Bob Evans and the hotels are proved to be a real hot piece of real estate. See the bluff behind them in the photo? That bluff used to come all the way out to the corner. The location was deemed valuable enough for a developer to "move the mountain." The town on the other side of the river, Valley Park, built a new levee over the last ten years to help protect the town. I said then that if the water couldn't go north into the natural flood plain, then it would go south and I wouldn't want to own any of those fats food restaurants! The Steak n Shake has had water in it before, but not like this. The developer of the property where the Bob Evans is took a pretty good guess on how high to make the property grade when he started building!
  I can hear Johnny cash singing right now, "How high's the water Momma? Four feet high and risin'"
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2016, 12:54:58 PM »

They have reopened I-44 past Buder Park a few hours ago, so I took a ride down there just to see it first hand. The water is just off the edge of the highway at it's lowest point, and you still can't see the pavilion or the speed circle fence yet. The river is supposed to drop pretty quick, but there was one whole hell-of-a-lot of crap and debris everywhere you looked. Judging from what I remember about past events like this, it may be a long time before we are allowed back in the park. Given it's winter time and cold as heck more often than not, that will hinder clean up. Park usage this time of year is usually limited to walkers, joggers and bike riders, (no soccer or softball games) so they most likely won't be in too big of a hurry to get going. There was a waste treatment plant over run by the water near there and the possible of lots of hazardous waste will figure into things. Lots of dangerous stuff hanging up in the trees will have to be removed. It won't happen over night. They will let future rain fall do as much as possible in the way of washing things off. We'll just have to wait it out, and take advantage of the building season!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2016, 06:07:52 PM »

Hey Ty;
After the '93 flood, they REALLY worked over the Monarch levee that protects the Chesterfield Valley, which is lovingly referred to as Gumbo Flats to the old timers! It's now like almost twice as high and twice as wide, and was holding nicely this week, but the Missouri River wasn't flooding like the Meremac River was. It had a quick crest earlier in the week. On last Monday, I had to take a southern route to work in O'Fallon, MO because I-70 was closed between Cave Springs and state Hiway 79, but that lasted only a day and was more or less a nuisance to people. There is a new housing development called New Town in north St. Charles near where I met you that time I picked up a kit from you when you were in town. It sits smack dab in the middle of a huge flood plain that had 20 feet of water on it in '93. There was some sandbagging going on there but it barely made the local news. Nothing like what was to come in south St. Louis and Jefferson County. They had more rain, and it's hilly country so run off was monsterous, and it all runs into the Meremac River, which rose to 44 feet at Valley Park, 4 feet over the old record. It even shut down I-55 near Arnold for 24 hours or so and it's not completely open yet. One whole heck of as lot of water man! The news said that there is as much water on the Mississippi passing by the Arch in one second as flows over the Niagra Falls in the same time period!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Dan McEntee

Bill Adair · « **Reply #23 on:** January 02, 2016, 10:16:05 AM »

I lived on a farm a few miles from Spring Lake Park just off Rock Creek road, and right on Romaine Creek road, until I was 17 years old. Used to walk from our farm to the Spring Lake pool, and occasionally the Merrimac river to fish. Enlisted in the USAF at 17, and my last trip home was in 1991. At that time they had already moved Hwy 141, and re-routed Hwy 21 farther East. Just by chance I found the Rock Creek road exit off Hwy 21, because nothing was as I remembered!

I've recently looked on Google Earth, and can't even find our farm now! That area was later known as Times Beach, and was infamous for the toxiDioxinen contamination from the old power transformer oil used to treat the dirt roads. A friend drove one of the trucks used to spread the toxic oil on the roads, and I actually rode along a few times. That toxin washed right through our farm, and resulted in a massive clean up years later.

Bill

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #24 on:** January 02, 2016, 10:32:25 AM »

Hi Bill;
I remember the Times Beach episode well. That was in the news for what seemed like forever. I used to work just past there in Eureka up until last April. I-44 passes over the Meremac River there also as it winds like a snake through that area. Russel Bliss was the name of the guy that owned the used oil company and some where here in a pile of useless stuff I have a note pad from the company. It's a state park now, and is used quite a bit by hikers, bikers, joggers and such. That was one of the first big "super fund" clean up sites I think. The EPA had a huge furnace to burn the topsoil the get rid of the toxins, then I guess they just spread it back around. I swear I have heard a news report in the last year or two that dioxin wasn't as bad as they thought back then! There has been nothing in the news about flooding in that area but as low as it is I imagine that the water got up to the road there also. I just don't have reason to go out that way now to check. That is a nice area, and if it were up to me I would like to find a nice little spread with enough garage space for my vintage dirt bikes, a model shop, and a nice, dry basement to store collections in! Good land to ride on and just a few minutes from Buder Park!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #25 on:** January 02, 2016, 02:01:50 PM »

Ty,
Where'd you live from '81 to '97? I lived there from '90 to '98. Don't remember you flying Stunt with us then.
Chris...

Bill Adair · « **Reply #26 on:** January 02, 2016, 02:16:24 PM »

Dan,

Lets continue this via email, before the admin shuts us down, or start a new thread if you prefer. I'll look for your email address, and get back to you there.

Bill

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #27 on:** January 02, 2016, 02:35:20 PM »

Dan and Fred

Dang guys that really is bad for you and everyone else in the St Louis and surrounding areas.
Hope the field area is in one piece.
But if the area has been hurt bad (like we are seeing from the pics), file one of these with the AMA.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/714.pdf

At least it is something.

Carl

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #28 on:** January 02, 2016, 06:21:38 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on December 28, 2015, 03:32:33 PM

Based on the speed circle fence it appears to be four feet deep. This is not unusual. Back in 1982/3 or so I gave up CL due to the constant flooding of Buder Park and went into HO model railroading. Guess what I am working on during our current monsoon??

What happened to that Iowa class battleship you were building?

WR Crane aka MrClean · « **Reply #29 on:** January 02, 2016, 07:12:58 PM »

Great, now I have even more videos to watch on youtube when I can't sleep. Flash Steam Hydroplanes. I assume he's jiggling the valve back and forth that turns on the burners to heat the coils THEN spins the motors which both operates the fuel control valve and I assume the D valves in the motor to allow the steam flow? Haven't located a step by step video BUT the next time I'm search Hit n Miss engine videos I'll start here.

All that aside, I still don't see how HO model railroading helps in your flooding a Buder park. I ran N Track for years and I can assure you HO track shorts out in 4 foot of water just the same way.

Lord am I soooo funny.

In KC we missed the heavy rain. I don't live in Parkville anymore having moved to the North East side of town but I think that it was the second year that the park in Parkville itself didn't flood in the last 10 years. No CL circles down there though I think they're squeezing in some more soccer fields. Sending sunny and quite a few Brawnie paper towel thoughts your way. As with everything river related, this to shall pass.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #30 on:** January 09, 2016, 09:09:31 AM »

Ok they finally had the gates open so I could drive thru the park and see the muddy mess. The good news is that the basic parts are still intact. I did see a wheel that maybe someone lost from their model....no.... that appears to be too big for a model airplane!

The shelter was in good shape but some of the picnic tables have floated away, so once the mud is cleaned off we should be good to go. The speed cage fence became a huge filter for leaves and debris, also notice the debris in the tree limbs and how high they are!

Fred

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #31 on:** January 09, 2016, 09:10:47 AM »

one more picture

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #32 on:** January 09, 2016, 09:25:19 AM »

Thanks for the pics. You guys take care.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #33 on:** January 09, 2016, 12:58:11 PM »

At least the main things are still there. I guess the park department has a big job. But, isn't that wheel usable for your next scale plane?

Also I guess when it's dry enough some brooms and scoops will come into play on the circles.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #34 on:** January 10, 2016, 05:31:53 PM »

Added this webpage to our club web site that has a lot of pictures but I think this one really gives you an idea how deep the water was. The door in the upper right corner of the picture is probably 20-25 feet off the ground. Got a good look at the flying circle other than a very thin layer of mud the site is in good shape and will recover.

https://lafayetteesquadrillecl.wordpress.com/lafayette-esquadrille-cl/photographs/flooding-in-buder-park-st-louis-lafayette-esquadrille-glsma/

the St Louis parks department has a done a great job but there is some more work to be done

Fred

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #35 on:** January 10, 2016, 05:39:32 PM »

Is that a new widowmaker about 20 feet up in the tree on the left, on the side toward the circle?

That sheet of plywood in the same tree is making me think "treehouse!" If I were about 12 and lived in the area I think I'd be there with hammer & nails and some 2x4 scraps.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #36 on:** January 11, 2016, 10:20:27 AM »

Thanks for the photo gallery. I do hope to make it down there this year.