Author Topic: Brodak Zero questions (Read 5429 times)

Ken Deboy · « **on:** July 04, 2008, 10:34:36 AM »

I'm getting ready to build a Brodak Zero and was wondering if anyone here has built and flown one. Some questions I have...

1. How does the plane fly with leadouts positioned as shown on the plans? The kit includes adjustable leadouts but I'm not sure if I want to mess with them?

2. What tip weight would be a good starting point, assuming a Brodak 40 with stock muffler and 62' 0.015 lines? The plans show 1 oz. for a Fox 35.

3. Is the engine/ line combo I'm planning OK for this airplane? What lap times can I expect? I'd like 5.1 or slower. Will the airplane fly OK with this lap speed?

4. Is there a 3-blade prop available that will work well on the Brodak 40?

5. Would it be worthwhile to install longer engine beams (to l/e of wing) or is the front end solid as is?

Thanks for any suggestions.

cheers,
Ken

Bill Little · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2008, 01:08:23 PM »

Hi Ken,

I was fortnate to get the preproduction drawings for the Zero and built the prototype. IMHO, it is the best flying of te bunch, for whatever reason. I flew mine on 60' E-E .015s using an old OS 35S. Times were usually in the 5.2 range. I never used a 3 blader on the Zero, but the newer MA 10-5 3 blade is something I have heard of people using on the Brodak 40.

Several of the guys I see at meets stil say I flew that model better than any other!

Mongo

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2008, 02:43:01 PM »

The War Bird series was made for a Fox 35. That is the reason for the smaller wing area. The leadout position and tip weight came about by many test flights. If you change the engine weight and power you should make every thing adjustable. A Brodak 40 is about the same weight as a fox . You should be OK. A Master airscrew 3 blade 9x7 or 10x7 works great on the Brodak and Fox. The props are really 9x5 or 10x5.
Willis

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2008, 08:15:55 AM »

My Brodak Warbird is a P-51 however the fuselage was cut down to resemble a "D" model rather than the A/C profile that is provided with the kit so...it has a profle very similar to the Zero and lessons learned should apply.
Front end: Extending the motor mounts should not be necessary however I would consider replacing the 1/16 ply doublers with 3/32 ply. B-40s are light so a little more weight in front should not be an issue.
Lead Outs: Mine are adjustable. After trying many locations I ended up leaving them exactly in the position that was shown on the plans - up against the "T-2" wing tip former. You be the judge.
Wing Tip Weight: Ended up with 3/4 of an ounce. One ounce is a good starting place.
Prop: Both 10-5 or 10-7 Master Airscrew 3 blades are worth a try - and inexpensive.
Engine: The lazer cut Zero plan shows a B-40 engine. It is a good choice. I would go with a 4 1/2 ounce tank with that engine. The tend to be a little thirsty although that improves with run time.
Lap Times: The plane will fly fine in the 5.2 second range. With a B-40 you may have to lenghten your lines a bit to get it though. Probably around 64' eye to eye. You will not be hurting for power if you use a Brodak 40.
The Brodak Warbird series is a great line of kits. Easy to build, quality wood and hardware, they look good, fly well, and are one of the best kit values around. The folks at Brodak, the late Mike Garmon, John Miller and all the others (ie: Bill Little) are to be commended for developing these designs - THANKS! BTW I too have a Zero that I just started. I see a lot improvements in this later lazer kit as compared to my earlier die cut P-51. It is interesting that the box label says "die cut" although the parts are lazer cut. Guess they had lotsa old labels to use up.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2008, 09:04:57 AM »

Do not hesitate to use the adjustable features that are incorporated into the design. There is always that little bit of fine tuning to do to a plane. I did a mass build of Goldberg Shoestrings one year and no two of them flew the same. I tried my best to make them identical. Have fun, DOC Holliday

Just One-eye · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2008, 09:19:37 AM »

Having "done" the warbirds thing with Sterling in the '50s, and Midwest in the '70s, I was in the mood for a design not popularized previously, and the LaGG-3 caught my eye. It's somewhat larger than the others, but I do have a Brodak B40, from the first run of imports, still NIB, as well as a fair number of other 28 to 40 sized engines (the 25 to 40 bracket is the one I have the most of, especially if you count old iron engines like Johnsons, Torps, and Vecos).

The years-delayed reorganization of the house is nearing completion at last, and I will soon have a space cleared off on a table to assemble an ARF Tutor II, and after that, who knows what next. I've about decided to discard the ARF's fuselage, or to at least graft onto the rear section, a properly vibration-resistant front end, to suit whatever I choose for power, such as one of the V-51 Tigres I recently acquired.

Having read somewhere that many first-run B40s had problems, I might put off messing with that one, assuming a "someday" build of a LaGG-3, and use an FP 40, or a sweet OS Max H 40 I have that runs very nicely.

Bill Little · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2008, 02:58:38 PM »

I forgot to mention.......... (and Willis would have known this! LOL!! )

The drawings I got from Mike were very elemental pencil drawings to show the *profile* and other unique shapes that were for the Zero. Because nothing was *shown* as adjustable, I did them anyway, LE's and wing tip weight. I set the LE's at the Sea Hurricane point (that was the wing drawing I had!) and added about 3/4oz. tip weight (I like to fly with the least possible amount of wing tip weight). Never changed a thing, not even the needle really. Lost it at it's *home* (Fentriss Field) when a line coupler hung over itself. Totaled the wing, but everything else was fine. I have ribs, just haven't set down and built a new wing......

Build it, fly it, and you will be a happy camper!

Mongo

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2008, 05:08:02 PM »

A friend moved out of town and left me a zero kit with the wing built. I changed the fuselage and tail feathers and presto a Stuka. Bill I remember your Zero. At Huntersville you crashed your Pampa plane and had to fly the Zero and had the best flight that I have seen you fly. You placed or won I can’t remember.
Willis

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2008, 08:00:49 PM »

Personally, I always thought the Hurricane version of the Warbirds looked cool. I don't hear much about it.

Not wanting to start anything up, but I always wondered why John B. didn't Arf/Arc any of these smaller warbirds--the P40 is really bigger (and a good flyer).

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2008, 08:35:08 PM »

Bill
Crashed your Pampa plane is what it suppose to be. For some reason the forum won’t let me correct it.
Willis

Leester · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2008, 08:09:47 AM »

I agree with you Alan about the Hurricane. With a B-40 for power it flys great.

Bill Little · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2008, 01:05:49 PM »

Quote from: Willis Swindell on July 05, 2008, 08:35:08 PM

Bill
Crashed your Pampa plane is what it suppose to be. For some reason the forum won’t let me correct it.
Willis

Hi Willis

I see the problem with editing must have corrected itself.

Aaron was flying beginner and he crashed his profile, so I let me *borrow* the SV-11 which he proceeded to break the nose off of!

That left me with the Zero to fly with. It really did fly great. Just a good combination overall! My flying falls under the *Blind Hog theory*......

Mongo

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2008, 04:05:11 PM »

Quote from: Leester on July 06, 2008, 08:09:47 AM

I agree with you Alan about the Hurricane. With a B-40 for power it flys great.

Also looks like a good electric candidate--Wouldn't cost too much to get it to go. These are about the same size as the Top Flite Nobler aren't they? I had heard their wing is basically a Nobler wing (but don't recall where I heard that).

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2008, 04:50:15 PM »

The Hurricane wing makes a great P-39. or a Heinkel 219
Willis

Leester · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:01:49 PM »

Looks good Willis. Alan the wing is 480 sq. at 48 ".

Bill Hummel · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2008, 06:54:16 PM »

We were there in Flushing, NY, when Bill Little flew the prototype Zero...awesome! Very impressive, very competitive, really flew the pattern well! I think if you build one, and DO NOT go crazy with a heavy finish, you will also have a very nice flying stunter!

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2008, 07:05:59 PM »

I'm still using a warbird series for Profile stunt. This is a Hurricane kit Mike Garmon gave me around 1999 or so. It started life with a FP-35, and now sports a LA 46 with a Gator 10.75x3.75 prop. It flies remarkably well!! I have a Brodak Mauler hanging up in the shop as well.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2008, 08:22:14 PM »

I have one of the Sea Hurricanes waiting on me. I also have the FW-190, which I planed to use the new Evo .36 on. Should be good.

John Tate · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2008, 10:40:34 PM »

Here is my Hawker Sea Hurricane taking off. It is one great flying warbird. A few years ago I won C.L.P.A. Advance at Brodaks with it against a bunch of full bodied stunters. You can not go wrong with any of the Mike Garmon designed warbirds. Originally it was powered by a Brodak 40. I installed a modified Tower 40 when the Brodak 40 wore out the connecting rod. Now I use a modified OS LA 46 for power.

John Tate
Norfolk Aeromodelers

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2008, 11:25:38 AM »

Speaking of the prototype Zero, here is a picture of the first of the first. this is before The first warbirds were kited all the testing was done with this Mauler probably more then 100 flights before the plans were finalized.
Willis

john e. holliday · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2008, 08:06:21 AM »

I was doing full patterns with my Brodak Mauler on the second flight with a Fox .35 Stunt of all engines. Switched to Brodak .25 and it still does full patterns. But, the plane has becomes Emmy's plane until she get one built of her own. Need to get the rest of the series on the shelf. DOC Holliday

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2008, 11:32:31 PM »

Since I know Ken lives in the Reno area, and thus flies at about 5,000' ASL, I think the B.40 would be great. I'd suggest adjustable leadouts, simply because not everybody likes the same CG/response, and that will required fine tuning the LO's. At that altitude, I wouldn't be giving up anything on props...the TT 11 x 4.5 is a good choice for the B.40, altho I'd surely try others, like the 10.5 x 4.5 APC, 11-4 ProZinger and even the TF PP. Keep testing props! If they don't work, don't push your luck, tho.

Steve

Author Topic: Brodak Zero questions (Read 5429 times)

Willis Swindell

Willis Swindell

Alan Hahn

Willis Swindell

Alan Hahn

Willis Swindell

Willis Swindell