stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Dwayne on August 14, 2018, 06:25:18 PM
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A young lad on facebook bought a P40 arf and one of the leadouts came out on the first pull test, he claims he called Brodak and they said sorry nothing we can do. I find this hard to believe, do they not have a return policy for arfs? I've never bought an arf but I've always had fantastic service when I did get something wrong.
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Sorry, but this sounds like a very "fishy" story! There has to be more to it than that. Like maybe someone else had changed the lead out to begin with!
Randy Cuberly
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I am the said young lad I am just as surprised as you are I have only had good experiences up until now and they said all they could do is send a lead out wire but the wire is not the issue the covering is I will put on my own wire but I am very bad a covering that’s why I bought a ARF
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I am the said young lad I am just as surprised as you are I have only had good experiences up until now and they said all they could do is send a lead out wire but the wire is not the issue the covering is I will put on my own wire but I am very bad a covering that’s why I bought a ARF
You know Cody, none of us were very good at this stuff when we started out. We all crashed, messed up paint jobs, burned holes in monokote, all the usual mistakes that new comers make. We got good at the various things by keeping at it, and learning from the mistakes. This is a great opportunity for you to learn how to do this repair, and the experience will be very valuable to you because it probably won't be the last time you have to do it. You know there is help here and probably local help also, but you can get the job done and get the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself. Hang in there and get at it!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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I am the said young lad I am just as surprised as you are I have only had good experiences up until now and they said all they could do is send a lead out wire but the wire is not the issue the covering is I will put on my own wire but I am very bad a covering that’s why I bought a ARF
Cody,
If you can find an experienced modeler there where you live He can show you how to do that repair without damaging the actual covering. Besides Kote is very easy to repair and you shouldn't have to even cut the kote (just the center planking), unless it broke a bunch of ribs when it failed. Anyway there are dozens of articles on how to cover with Kote. Get some and a Kote Iron and do a little reading. As a last resort if you can't find anyone call me at five two zero three nine zero three four six six any time in the morning or afternoon in Tucson and I'll be happy to talk you through it! I'm retired and home most days.
Randy Cuberly
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Fix it from the underside and patch it with clear packing tape and go flying.
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I am the said young lad I am just as surprised as you are I have only had good experiences up until now and they said all they could do is send a lead out wire but the wire is not the issue the covering is I will put on my own wire but I am very bad a covering that’s why I bought a ARF
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Cody.
I just got off the phone with John Brodak. At 1AM. his time. Yes he did say that he would only give you the lead out wire and some covering. But you are not telling the whole story. How come you never mentioned that you bought your P-40 ( 5 YEARS AGO ) off of some one else that you said that you can not remember who it was from/transaction. How long did that person have it. How many times did it change hands if any before you bought it.
I think that John made you a Fair offer on offering you what he did even though you did not purchase the P-40 from him. But you said no. That was not good enough. That you wanted a new kit to replace the one that you bought once upon a time ago from a transaction that you can't even remember.
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I am the said young lad I am just as surprised as you are I have only had good experiences up until now and they said all they could do is send a lead out wire but the wire is not the issue the covering is I will put on my own wire but I am very bad a covering that’s why I bought a ARF
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Cody.
I just got off the phone with John Brodak. At 1AM. his time. Yes he did say that he would only give you the lead out wire and some covering. But you are not telling the whole story. How come you never mentioned that you bought your P-40 ( 5 YEARS AGO ) off of some one else that you said that you can not remember who it was from/transaction. How long did that person have it. How many times did it change hands if any before you bought it.
I think that John made you a Fair offer on offering you what he did even though you did not purchase the P-40 from him. But you said no. That was not good enough. That you wanted a new kit to replace the one that you bought once upon a time ago from a transaction that you can't even remember.
I most certainly did by it from them and it was definitely not 5 years ago I was not even in the hobby 5 years ago the lady I talked to on the phone refused to hear the story and drew all he own conclusions
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I am the said young lad I am just as surprised as you are I have only had good experiences up until now and they said all they could do is send a lead out wire but the wire is not the issue the covering is I will put on my own wire but I am very bad a covering that’s why I bought a ARF
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Cody.
I just got off the phone with John Brodak. At 1AM. his time. Yes he did say that he would only give you the lead out wire and some covering. But you are not telling the whole story. How come you never mentioned that you bought your P-40 ( 5 YEARS AGO ) off of some one else that you said that you can not remember who it was from/transaction. How long did that person have it. How many times did it change hands if any before you bought it.
I think that John made you a Fair offer on offering you what he did even though you did not purchase the P-40 from him. But you said no. That was not good enough. That you wanted a new kit to replace the one that you bought once upon a time ago from a transaction that you can't even remember.
If you have a line to him and wanted to pass along my phone number 781-243-2290 and have him call that would be great. If he treats his customers half as good as I heard he will hear the situation and make it right.
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If you have a line to him and wanted to pass along my phone number 781-243-2290 and have him call that would be great. If he treats his customers half as good as I heard he will hear the situation and make it right.
Hey Cody glad you found this thread, good luck, I hope they do you right. y1 ;D
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I bought a P-40 ARF a couple years ago from Brodak and it had the rear lead out going over the push rod. I removed the cable from the bell crank and routed it properly re tying the cable. It flys nice.
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Cody,
If you don't mind, where are you located? If you are near me, I'd be more than happy to help you with the covering. I'm in south Arkansas.
Jason
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Cody,
If you don't mind, where are you located? If you are near me, I'd be more than happy to help you with the covering. I'm in south Arkansas.
Jason
If you can Jason is the best with this I have seen!
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As with any body on this forum it helps to know location of a person. I have in the past had people send me a private message or a phone call and I tried to help them. It is hard to do help when they don't show up. Now I have hard time understanding people on the phone. Just completed another hearing test after having an operation on the right ear that has gotten worse. The lady had a hearing aid that worked great in the left ear, but $1600.00 is a little steep on retirement income. She nothing would help right ear. So I get by with a cheapy $29.95 device from the department store. Sorry for the rattling off course, but where are you located????? ??? ??? ???
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I am in Pembroke Massachusetts I know quite a few people around here that would thelp me out with it if needed
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Well get over here so I can help. Only a good two day drive. LL~ LL~ LL~
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Cody. Brodaks offered you a fix to the problem. New lead outs and a new bellcrank and some covering for the patch work.You then told them NO, that would not work.( I then will ASK you.) What do you think will work to make the situation of this problem correct. When they offered you a fix to your problem. You DID tell them that the plane was given to you. But for argument sake. They did check and they do not have a record of you buying anything from them ever by mail order. They doubled checked their computer files and back up files. Your name is no where to be found. By the way. They do keep meticulous records. I was on the phone with them as they did this.
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Cody. Brodaks offered you a fix to the problem. New lead outs and a new bellcrank and some covering for the patch work.You then told them NO, that would not work.( I then will ASK you.) What do you think will work to make the situation of this problem correct. When they offered you a fix to your problem. You DID tell them that the plane was given to you. But for argument sake. They did check and they do not have a record of you buying anything from them ever by mail order. They doubled checked their computer files and back up files. Your name is no where to be found. By the way. They do keep meticulous records. I was on the phone with them as they did this.
They offered a lead out wire not all the other things listed and they did not find anything for me because I am 15 every thing gets ordered in my parents name William/bill or Tina Bishop have them check those names the same thing happened with this ARF I gave my dad the cash and he order it it was easier to tell them it was a gift than to explain that as I said if you could have John call me I could tell him this
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Also tony did they tell you the wing also has a very sight twist to it not much of a twist but it is there
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Cody,
It seems there is no pleasing you.
Perhaps you should buy your modeling stuff somewhere else.
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Cody,
It seems there is no pleasing you.
Perhaps you should buy your modeling stuff somewhere else.
Prior to this thread I did not hear about the covering or bellcrank they said only a lead out wire not kit wire and the wing has a twist. I had to mow a lot of lawns to buy that ARF
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Cody. You were specifically told you were to be given a new lead out set and a bellcrank and covering. Yes YOU were told that... Also i called back and had them check on the orders. No William or Tina. There was a Bill Bishop that ordered items back in 2016. Three separate orders to be exact. No P-40 was ever ordered at all from them. They keep records on what was ordered. I will ASK YOU AGAIN. What DO you think should be done, when they offered you a a fix.
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Tony I just god off the phone with Nikki at brodak and she said you have not talked to her at all and she was the only one on the phone today
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Cody,
If you don't mind, where are you located? If you are near me, I'd be more than happy to help you with the covering. I'm in south Arkansas.
Jason
If you can Jason is the best with this I have seen!
Thanks, John. I appreciate that. I just hate to see someone get turned off from the hobby from a bad experience.
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Just another troll.
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Hey Cody:
Ne illigitimus carburundum. I can't affect Brodaks, and I'm a five day drive away so I can't help much directly either.
Change out the leadout and go fly, and ignore the Internet nay-sayers. Take comfort in the fact that no matter how badly you cover airplanes, there's geezers who cover worse than you do. The air does not care what it looks like. Consider, too, that doing repair jobs is a good way to learn building skills.
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Hey Cody:
Ne illigitimus carburundum. I can't affect Brodaks, and I'm a five day drive away so I can't help much directly either.
Change out the leadout and go fly, and ignore the Internet nay-sayers. Take comfort in the fact that no matter how badly you cover airplanes, there's geezers who cover worse than you do. The air does not care what it looks like. Consider, too, that doing repair jobs is a good way to learn building skills.
Yes i intend to fix it my thinking is go in from the under side so it’s a sold color and easier to match I’m also considering putting in a carbon fiber pushrod while I’m in there
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Yes i intend to fix it my thinking is go in from the under side so it’s a sold color and easier to match I’m also considering putting in a carbon fiber pushrod while I’m in there
It sounds like a good plan all the way around.
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Tony I just god off the phone with Nikki at brodak and she said you have not talked to her at all and she was the only one on the phone today
Just casually following this, so I reread Tony's post. He said he talked to John Brodak, not Nikki...
She likely knows norhing about this.
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Going from the bottom is not a bad idea, just keep in mind the bellcrank sits on a little shelf. So there will be less visibility / finger room to work with. You'll get it figured out though. It'll be a quick fix. And that plane is a good plane to fly.
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You guys could lighten up on a 15 year old kid who flies control line.
This.
Btw Cody you are handling yourself with composure and grace, well done young man. y1
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A lesson to anybody that buys an ARF, and I have one, is REPLACE THE CONTROLS. I bought a TF Nobler just to get me back into flying the pattern after 35 years. Thought I needed it for about 50 flights till I got a real airplane built. Damn if it didn't fly really well and I rather enjoy it now. What I didn't enjoy was REPLACING THE CONTROLS after they failed and almost crashed it. I was very lucky, you normally don't survive a control failure. BTW, you can only fix a floating bellcrank from the bottom.
Good Luck on yours - Ken
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Also tony did they tell you the wing also has a very sight twist to it not much of a twist but it is there
You can probably fix that yourself. It's easier if there's no LE sheeting, but it should work even so: twist the wing opposite of the existing twist, then work it over with a heat gun (do you have a heat gun?) to re-tighten the covering. Then check the twist -- if you went to far, go back, if you need to go farther yet, keep going.
Or, just tweak the flaps and carry on.
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Just casually following this, so I reread Tony's post. He said he talked to John Brodak, not Nikki...
She likely knows norhing about this.
John brodak has been out of the office for health issues he would not have the means to check the records from his home
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Talk to Dave Cook he can set you straight.
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Dave passed back in April 2016. But there's no shortage of local help for Cody.
-Chris
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Chris is right getting local help is not difficult in my area
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You guys could lighten up on a 15 year old kid who flies control line.
Best post in this thread
If Cody was a bit older and wiser he would know that almost all of us agree there are very FEW ARFS with good control systems...almost all of them need attention or full replacement
I have been deeply disappointed many times with some Brodak product...so far they have done an exceptional job of making it right To MY Standards
Thus I am still a loyal customer... BUT Gee Wiz guys and gals...it would be worlds better if the product was NOT defective or badly designed from the get go.......
I have a Top Flite Nobler Arf here that is not flyable as delivered....the amount of things I must change exceeds the time it takes to build a KIT Nobler....fer sale soon ...including a complete new set of controls...I think from Eric Rule
I have a Mike Griffen built Ring master that needed very little trimming work
I have many Phil Cartier pseudo ARF RSTs that basically flew right off the building board
I have a Tom Dixon Ukey 35 that was and us the absolute fastest to assemble and fly right off the board .. Highly recommended
I have a Flite Steak that is a pure disaster of an ARF
I have a Nobler that is a pure disaster of an ARF
I have a Brodak P-40B that is promising with a few mods
I have a Brodak/Randy Smith SV 11 ARF that is actually the best ARF I have seen to date
So bottom line is Cody got a typical POS ARF and is disappointed...
my oh my how many mail order items arrived to me that were crap....
I have a Horizon Hobby E-flite UH-1H Huey complete RTF helicopter ( hey I was a Huey Crew chief for a few years)... beautiful and well done copter.......pure display device in my shop --and I still love it ---BUT the Tail rotor drive motor has been replaced three times under warranty up until I just gave up
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Thank goodness ARF’s came out in a time when we have this kind of communication. I bought a Nobler ARF to fill a gap when I crashed my Giesky Nobler. What was so sad about the Nobler is that I replaced the control hardware with Great Planes hardware, which was good. Why was not their own hardware used. The stuff in the Kit was worse than garbage. No chance it would hold-up. The rest of the construction was great and it flew wonderfully.
I had been to contests and seen the Nobler ARFs crash in the hands of experienced builders so I knew what I was getting into. If I had been a 15 year-old in the sixties and the line let loose in flight I would have been crushed. A farm boy with no outside help and most likely 6 to 9 months of chores and field work down the drain. It would be best if they charged a little more for the product and had better quality control.
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Thank goodness ARF’s came out in a time when we have this kind of communication. I bought a Nobler ARF to fill a gap when I crashed my Giesky Nobler. What was so sad about the Nobler is that I replaced the control hardware with Great Planes hardware, which was good. Why was not their own hardware used. The stuff in the Kit was worse than garbage. No chance it would hold-up.
I have seen the bellcrank-to-flap pushrod hole on the ARF Nobler enlarge itself from 3/32 (or maybe 3 mm) to about 1/4" in the space of about *4 flights*. Some batches of them were the worst of the worst for that sort of thing. I don't even know what grade of aluminum I would choose to make that happen on purpose.
Everyone very quickly learned to either inspect and validate the construction on the ARFs, or automatically replace the controls and rework a bunch of stuff, to permit safe and reliable functioning. Covering flying off was a pretty common problem, too. On some of them, like the Flite Streak, you could probably build a much better airplane from scratch in less time it took to fix it. Nobler. probably not, so you still save time. You have to figure that to sell for what they sell for, the cost to manufacture it must be in the range of maybe $20-30, most of which is probably the materials. You can't expect really good workmanship for $30. You can see what well-manufactured stunt planes cost - it's about $3000-4000.
Brett