Author Topic: Brodak Corsair??? (Read 6417 times)

wwwarbird · « **on:** December 05, 2007, 04:24:07 PM »

What's the latest info on the Brodak Corsair that was talked about a while back? There were some other Warbirds to be offered in the series too. I still have my "current" catalog (#15 I think) with the listings, but no availability or photos. Are they still in the works? Can we see any photos? Other details???

gary tultz · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2007, 07:40:43 PM »

Can't show you a picture or say about availability but myself, "Champione" Lampione, Banjock,Spillman Z-Man and a few other ExSpurts flew the prototype one evening at this years Brodak Blast. After some basic trimming, we had it doing a respectable pattern with an LA .46 Would be good in Profile stunt. Gary T. aka Rainman.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2007, 08:16:53 PM »

I know it is a lot of work, but, you can go to the Brodak Mfg site and check. If not they will respond to E-Mail in less than 48 hours. I know as I could not find the Cardinette listed in the plans section. E-Mail response I got back quoted cost plus shipping. Money order put in the mail this AM. DOC Holliday

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2007, 12:21:26 AM »

Don Hutchinson drew up plans for a Corsair as part of his profile warbird series. It has the bent wings and an ingenious way for the flaps to over lap each other at the wing bend. His profiles are a must. They have stunt airfiols and all fly great.

I will have laser ribs available for these also.

gary tultz · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2007, 07:45:38 AM »

Tom, where can these planes be seen? Gary T.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2007, 10:50:27 AM »

Tom,

Thanks, I'm aware of Don's plans, I have his SBD Dauntless, F6F Hellcat and P-38 Lightning plans and they are EXCELLENT, so I'm sure the Corsair ones are too. I met him at VSC '07 and he had a functional mock-up of the Corsair flap system that he showed me, it was pretty cool. Anyway, I'm still just curious about the Brodak version.

Brodak (or any good laser cutter, hint-hint

) should seriously consider kitting Don Hutchinson's designs.

Bill Little · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2007, 10:53:31 AM »

Isn't the Brodak Corsair the one Pat Johnston designed?

SQ8s · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2007, 11:00:10 AM »

YES, And we where amazed in it's flying. Pat has a winner.

Bill Griffith · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2007, 11:24:02 AM »

Here is a link to a picture of Pat's Corsair.

http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info/flightline/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=47&photoid=1016

Bill

Randy Powell · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2007, 12:11:46 PM »

Yes, the Brodak Corsair is Pat's design. I had a picture of it from the last contest here somewhere, but can't find it at the moment.

sigh...

Good flying, flapless ship, as it turns out.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2007, 01:08:34 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on December 06, 2007, 10:50:27 AM

Tom,

Thanks, I'm aware of Don's plans, I have his SBD Dauntless, F6F Hellcat and P-38 Lightning plans and they are EXCELLENT, so I'm sure the Corsair ones are too. I met him at VSC '07 and he had a functional mock-up of the Corsair flap system that he showed me, it was pretty cool. Anyway, I'm still just curious about the Brodak version.

Brodak (or any good laser cutter, hint-hint ) should seriously consider kitting Don Hutchinson's designs.

Warbird, you didn't read post #4. Tom Nieber is working on it. DOC Holliday

Bill Little · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2007, 01:34:02 PM »

Yes, Tom Niebuhr has laser cut ribs (any other parts, Tom?) done by Kyle Tankersley. EXCELLENT parts!

All of Don's planes look exceptional.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2007, 01:48:17 PM »

Pats Corsair (Brodak)

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #13 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:14:56 PM »

Bill, and all,

Just a clarification.

I have several people that cut laser parts for me (ribs, kits and more).

Kyle is one of my suppliers, but I do ALL my own CAD work for my kits and ribs. I feel that this is the only way that I have total control over the end product.

Thanks,
Tom Niebuhr
Blue Sky Models

wwwarbird · « **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:26:26 PM »

Doc,
Check your inbox.

Tom N.,
Have you ever thought about getting with Don H. and doing full kits (less hardware)?

Other folks,
Thanks for the info, please keep it coming.

Joe Messinger · « **Reply #15 on:** December 06, 2007, 06:36:36 PM »

I built the Corsair that was flown at Brodak's Fly In this past June. As noted, Pat Johnson designed this particular model. Sam Laughery laser cut everything, I put it together and finished it with Brodak heat shrink covering.

Initially, I installed an OS LAS .40 and we flew it. The plane flew quite well and handled the stunt pattern with this engine. Sam decided more power might be better and tried the OS LAS .46 which powered the plane when it was "flight tested" at the Fly In.

Although the prototype is a profile, plans were to produce it with a full fuselage. Sam tells me that now Pat thinks it should remain a profile with the addition of flaps. As far as I know, it will be in production and available this coming year but I don't know of any specific date. As suggested, a call to John Brodak would offer more information if you're interested.

Joe Messinger

steve pagano · « **Reply #16 on:** December 06, 2007, 10:47:50 PM »

Is brodak planning to produce any built up fuse. warbirds?

Bill Little · « **Reply #17 on:** December 07, 2007, 09:12:10 AM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on December 06, 2007, 03:14:56 PM

Bill, and all,

Just a clarification.

I have several people that cut laser parts for me (ribs, kits and more).

Kyle is one of my suppliers, but I do ALL my own CAD work for my kits and ribs. I feel that this is the only way that I have total control over the end product.

Thanks,
Tom Niebuhr
Blue Sky Models

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the heads up. I am aware of your CAD work, and your dedication to producing a *perfect* kit.

Didn't know you used laser cutters other than Kyle, sorry!

Neal Beekman · « **Reply #18 on:** December 07, 2007, 09:54:29 AM »

From the looks of this profile it would adapt to electric power easily. Nice plane.

Bill Little · « **Reply #19 on:** December 07, 2007, 10:12:56 AM »

Quote from: ama65006 on December 07, 2007, 09:54:29 AM

From the looks of this profile it would adapt to electric power easily. Nice plane.

Brother Neal,

From all I hear ALL the planes will convert toelectric fairly easily!

Merry Christmas, my Friend! (and keep an eye on Champione!)

Neal Beekman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 07, 2007, 02:19:21 PM »

Yes most can be converted to electric ,but a low wing is easier to place the battery for proper ballance. I keep an eye on the Champione all the time we need to motovate him.

stunt1 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 07, 2007, 06:21:54 PM »

Yes indeed, I sure could use some motivation. Maybe a new pilot from Mr. Little for my new United, which will have a PA75 piped motor in it, might give me some motivation.

I want to wish you all and your families a very Blessed and Beautiful Christmas and may GOD Bless you all with a very Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year. Till we meet again, Happy Stunt Year.

Love to all of the Stunt Family,

Bob "Champione" Lampione

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #22 on:** December 08, 2007, 05:24:14 PM »

If you can scratch build from (really good) plans, Pat Johnston has all sorts of warbirds available. Many will become Brodak kits, but the plans are available from Pat long before the kits are ready for sale. The plans are not exactly the same as the kit plans. More building notes and templates, so there is no copyright issue. I know there's a new P-51, Spitfire, Corsair, and the Gee Bee Z that he did at my request.
email him at: patsplans at yahoo dot com

Steve

Pat Johnston · « **Reply #23 on:** December 08, 2007, 08:50:16 PM »

Might as well get the whole story out. I built the Corsair this last summer and flew it at the Salem, Oregon "Fall Follies". The plane has a built-up profile fuselage to keep the weight down to a reasonable figure. The wing area is 560 squares with an all up weight of 41 ounces. Power is an LA46. I have since stretched the nose 1/2" and shown the stab and elevators with optional ribs to shave a little weight off the tail so the heavy factory muffler can be ditched for a lighter tongue muffler. With good wood selection and a film covering, the weight should have no problem coming out at 40 ounces or under. The design uses my Shark 402 airfoil (See Brodaks) and has a monstrous Tail Volume Coefficient (TVC) to maintain the groove and at the same time provide leverage for the sharp corners. The "402" airfoil is one I developed from the combat design philosophy. It really turns.
The plan was to use this to develop a full bodied Corsair for the Brodak line, but I feel the flight charactoristics have a small flaw in them. The plane has both a great groove on level flight and a wonderful corner, but in heavy winds, the wind will get under the outboard wing on the upwind side of the circle and tip the plane inward slightly. It hasn't been a big problem, just annoying. Because of this, I stopped further work on the full bodied version. I really don't want people to pour their heart and time into a plane that they may be dissapointed in. At least, especially a full bodied version. Now when it comes to a profile version, I don't have such an emotional problem. Most of us profile builders want a plane that is fun to fly and likely won't be pushing it all that hard on a competition level. At least that is how I am with this sort of plane. The profile Corsair is a terrific high performance plane that is a ball to fly in conditions under gale force winds. And mostly, most people are ready to quit flying when the weather is misbehaving to that level.
Anyway, I have the plans all ready and anyone wanting this can catch me. I also have a beautiful Spitfire Mk 14 with clipped tips and the bubble canopy, along with a new Bearcat. Both are also 560 squares for a LA40/46. The Bearcat is a shrunken down version of my big 60 sized Bearcat II. Feel free to get in touch. Check the E-mail address in Steve's post above.
Pat Johnston

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #24 on:** December 08, 2007, 09:54:14 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on December 05, 2007, 04:24:07 PM

What's the latest info on the Brodak Corsair that was talked about a while back? There were some other Warbirds to be offered in the series too. I still have my "current" catalog (#15 I think) with the listings, but no availability or photos. Are they still in the works? Can we see any photos? Other details???

Corsair at Fall Follies!

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #25 on:** December 09, 2007, 08:54:50 AM »

I just want to add that my mention of Hutch's designs is not to slight Pat johnson. Pat's airplanes are all well done, and fly well.

Hutch goes to extremes to get his warbirds very close to scale, while producing great flying airplanes. In most case they also take some extra effort by the builder also. In the case of the "Corsair" the gull wing creates a special problem in that the flaps at the vee will normal interfere with each other. Don, has worked on the geometry so that one flap passes over the other. This requires special made flap horns, but the method is pure genius.

Pat Johnston · « **Reply #26 on:** December 09, 2007, 09:45:42 AM »

The Corsair has proven to be a fun plane and the basis for some good experimantation. Because of the horid difficulties of the inverted gull wing, flaps would be difficult at best, especially in a profile, in hiding the separate linkage needed to actuate the flaps at two different angles. This is why I elected to make the design without flaps. Traditionally non flapped planes run Tail Volume Coefficients (TVC) in the .180 to .300 territory. The Corsair has the TVC pumped up to somewhere in the .400 to .450 range. I'd need to check my figures, but it is close. The Corsair tail does not have to overcome the downward pitching effect when the flaps are deflected, making the tail more effective. At the same time, the large TVC creates a design that has very nice stability in level flight. Of course, the Shark 402 airfoil is a key to top performance in the corners.
A similar design philosophy evolved in the Ringmaster 526 and 576. This design has and airfoil with the high point rather far forward and uses small half span flaps that are about 1/3 the size of "normal" flaps. This creates a nifty approach in the middle of the wing which has a change in camber with the flaps deflected, while the outer portion of the wing effectively flies in a washed out angle of attack in the corners. This acts like a roll stabilizing method. Also with the smaller flaps, the elevator is more effective than on designs with larger flaps. Dee Rice has the first 576 and is beside himself with its flying qualities. He let various people fly it at the Memphis contest, among none other than our SH site master, "Sparky". I think Dee was in danger of loosing his set of plans for them at that time. That week, I sent the Sparkster his own set of plans so he can go nuts himself on another 576. It would be fun to get his thoughts about the flying impressions of the 576. The 526 is just a smaller version of the 576 targeted for the Brodak 40. Dee and I just got through making a run of 576 and 526 Ringmaster short kits and they are all gone, but when I get the laser up and running we will be cranking out more of everything. As it is said: "Please Stay Tuned!".
Well, now, there's a bit of rambling about a couple different design approaches. That is the latest from the Skunk Works here in the outback of Idaho.
Pat Johnston

RC Storick · « **Reply #27 on:** December 09, 2007, 10:01:40 AM »

Quote from: Pat Johnston on December 09, 2007, 09:45:42 AM

He let various people fly it at the Memphis contest, among none other than our SH site master, "Sparky". I think Dee was in danger of loosing his set of plans for them at that time. That week, I sent the Sparkster his own set of plans so he can go nuts himself on another 576. It would be fun to get his thoughts about the flying impressions of the 576. The 526 is just a smaller version of the 576 targeted for the Brodak 40. Dee and I just got through making a run of 576 and 526 Ringmaster short kits and they are all gone, but when I get the laser up and running we will be cranking out more of everything. As it is said: "Please Stay Tuned!".
Well, now, there's a bit of rambling about a couple different design approaches. That is the latest from the Skunk Works here in the outback of Idaho.
Pat Johnston

Dee did give me those plans. I have to say the 576 is the best profile plane I have ever flown. Dee was going to let me fly it in profile that day however I decided to pass on it as it was windy and I didn't want to hurt his plane. I think it flies as good as many full body ships. I have yet to build mine as I have too many projects in the works but look for mine in 08.

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #28 on:** December 09, 2007, 10:12:55 AM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on December 09, 2007, 10:01:40 AM

Dee did give me those plans. I have to say the 576 is the best profile plane I have ever flown.

I agree.

I reget that I never finished my 46 size Goldberg Shoestring.

OH, AND ONE MORE THING!!!!

PAT JOHNSTON IS THE BOMB!!!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #29 on:** December 10, 2007, 11:28:15 AM »

Thank you very much for all the information Pat, this is really good stuff. I never realized the Shark 402 airfoil was that much different than most, however, I have heard that it's an excellent flying flapless model. I've got a Brodak 402 kit still in the plastic, that I plan to have ready for spring, among other things.
With the wing getting covered just last night, I am currently building a 64" span profile PBY Catalina for two Saito .30's of my own design, that coincidentally incorporates most of the theories you have described above. It is built-up throughout, with the only open bays being the outboard wing panels. Wing area is just over 700" with a 30" stab span. It's a very scale outline with all the moment dimensions "cheated", much like a Don Hutchinson design. Obviously it's not an ideal stunt platform, but you probably won't see a row of them at your local field either!

Thanks again Pat!