Brodak ARF Control Systems

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Looking for info on the control systems in Brodak ARF models.  I have a ARF Profile Pathfinder kit and don't want to spend 5 minutes on it if the control system will fail after 3 flights.  And I detest metal bellcranks.

Your experience?  TIA!


Dennis

[EddyR]

Dennis.   I put “ARF control systems” in the search engine and got more than enough reading to last all day. They all say the same thing change it all out.
Ed

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Thanks guys!  It's a shame ARFs in general don't have decent control systems, am I the only one who expects airplanes to last several years?


Dennis

[wwwarbird]

...am I the only one who expects airplanes to last several years?


Dennis

 Built straight out of the box you won't find an IC powered ARF that will last several years, at least if you plan on flying it any real amount. As a rule you'll find the covering will start coming loose in very short order and with most of them the wood and build quality are marginal at best. Fuel-proofing is almost non-existent. You already have your control system question answered too, replace all of it. If you want a model that will hold up well over time you're going to need to build it yourself. Like most things, if you want true lasting quality you'll have to put in the effort. Put in that effort and you'll be much more satisfied.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Built straight out of the box you won't find an IC powered ARF that will last several years, at least if you plan on flying it any real amount. As a rule you'll find the covering will start coming loose in very short order and with most of them the wood and build quality are marginal at best. Fuel-proofing is almost non-existent. You already have your control system question answered too, replace all of it. If you want a model that will hold up well over time you're going to need to build it yourself. Like most things, if you want true lasting quality you'll have to put in the effort. Put in that effort and you'll be much more satisfied.

Makes sense Wayne, even if I wanted to hope otherwise.   

Thanks All!


Dennis

[Dan McEntee]

Built straight out of the box you won't find an IC powered ARF that will last several years, at least if you plan on flying it any real amount. As a rule you'll find the covering will start coming loose in very short order and with most of them the wood and build quality are marginal at best. Fuel-proofing is almost non-existent. You already have your control system question answered too, replace all of it. If you want a model that will hold up well over time you're going to need to build it yourself. Like most things, if you want true lasting quality you'll have to put in the effort. Put in that effort and you'll be much more satisfied.

  I don't know about that Wayne! Today, I flew my original SIG Primary Force. I got one of the first batched shipped and the first here in my area. I had it assembled and ready for our Ice-O-Lated contest that year, and I think that was 2006?  I'm not exactly sure of the year but it was a while ago. I built it as per the instructions, and the way the model was engineered, it looked to be impossible to change anything out in the controls. The only thing I had to change was the push rod, as it wasn't long enough. I placed second with it in that contest, with a LA.25 in the nose. I have flown it at every SIG contest I after that until the stopped having the contest. I have flown it in many other profile contests and even in expert class when the need arose. About 6 or 8 years ago, the covering did start to delaminate and I had to recover it, but the main air frame and control system is still original. I changed engines twice, from the LA.25 to an FP.25 to an OS.32. I don't know if I can calculate the number of flights over 14 years, but I will have to say that the number should be significant, and that I think I have gotten my money's worth out this this ARF!
   The big question  mark for me, when I got the kit, was that it had a metal bell crank (looked like a Perfect or Fox metal bell crank) and cable lead outs. This is a definite no-no, I have learned over the years. It doesn't take long for the bell crank, if not bushed, to saw through the cable and we all know the result from that. But like I mentioned, the way the wing was designed and assembled, I could not see a way to take things apart enough to even bush the bell crank. One thing I did notice while looking at it was the lead outs were double looped through the bell crank, and then when they were crimped, there was enough slack for the cable to flex just a bit so that when they wee under tension and moving, the bale cinched the bell crank arm, and there was no sawing action. I finally decided to just dab some grease on the cable joint and went ahead with the assembly. I have been flying the model this way ever since. I don't know if I have the nerve to try this on a scratch built model or not, but it sure has worked on my P-Force. of the ARFs that I have assembled and flown, the SIG Primary Force has been the best in all aspects as far as I'm concerned.  Too bad they couldn't produce more of them.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[wwwarbird]

 Dan, here's my P-Force experience...

 Very shortly after they were introduced I had one for a while too, Saito .30 powered. Splitting hairs, I'll admit it was one of the "better" ARF's I've seen but it still had some issues. Out of the box the leadouts were too short to be able to finish the ends out, only about 3/4" of an inch of each sticking out of the tip at neutral. That didn't really matter because once I got a look at the bellcrank and terribly finished leadouts residing inside I was determined get rid of them. The too short leadouts would have really been a big issue for someone less experienced, like a newbie.
 It was a bugger to accomplish but I did win the fight and get it all changed out. I used a standard Sig nylon 3" bellcrank combined with a threaded Du-Bro 4-40 pushrod supported midway by passing it through the loop end of a nipped-off cotter key that I glued into the fuse side. I immediately threw the supplied CA hinges in the trash and substituted them with the Du-Bro pinned jobbies and a Sig control horn. I also upgraded to a much nicer Sig "Fazer" landing gear with 2-1/2" wheels and made a new tailwheel wire. The orange covering held up better than most ARF's but the white trim stripes were shedding themselves very early in the program. After fixing these things it was found to be a great flying plane though, I still have another one NIB.

[peabody]

ARFs can and do last....they are NOT intended to replace the $3000 Russian models, but have proven to allow a whole lot of flights and their flyers to gain stick time.

The Pathfinder, in particular, benefits from preventive work on the lead outs. Recrimping the connections and applying a bit of epoxy seems to work. This may be accomplished by cutting the covering from the last inboard bay. That will allow access to the leadouts on the bellcrank.

Have fun.