Author Topic: Brodak 38 Special (Read 12013 times)

Larrys4227 · « **on:** June 09, 2008, 09:01:06 AM »

I just scored a 38 Special off of Ebay this weekend. I'm pretty psyched! .. I love bi-planes! Have found a few photos online and it seems to have nice lines. Its supposed to be competition/stunt ... does anyone know how well it does? Even if all I can do is some loops and wingovers, I'll be happy. Did I mention I love bi-planes?! :-)

Figuring it will take some time to get it built and flight ready .... I was hoping the new Evolution 36 will be on the market, and would like to try it in this plane.

Anyone have this plane and would like to share some thoughts?

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2008, 09:08:49 AM »

Here is one of the best looking 38's I have seen. It was built by Wynn Robins. He can give you some info on it.
Very clean.

If you like Bipes you will love a Bi-Slob.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2008, 10:06:33 AM »

The 38 Special is a very good flying biplane. It will fly a competitive pattern, I have won profile stunt at a major contest with mine. The Evo 36 should be a good choice. I recommend it be built according to plans, it is a well thought out design. Use a 3 1/2 or 4" bellcrank and of course, keep it light, keep it straight. The wings are keyed into the fuselage so it is easier to rig than most biplanes. Consider limiting the elevator travel. I did it with stops which limited bellcrank movement. Much more than 30 degrees and the elevator becomes a large speed brake and the airplane will slow excessively in square maneuvers. The Bi-Slob is also a good design but its speciality is sport/novelty flying, not the pattern.

steve pagano · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2008, 10:07:19 AM »

I was givin one a while back fitted for a thunder tiger 40. She was a little on the heavy side but what a plane!!! If built to plans she will do the pattern for ya! i learned my squares with the 38. i believe it was built by henry forbes but not completely sure I'll find out

Steve P.

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2008, 10:53:55 AM »

A friend of mine had one and it did the coolest slow pattern you wanted to see.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2008, 11:05:47 AM »

Yea, I watched Pete Peterson fly his powered with a Magnum 36. It was, ah, interesting to watch. I never knew Pete could dance so well. Of course, it was windy and just turbulent as heck.

Jim P · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2008, 11:27:05 AM »

I had one given to me a couple of years ago. Ugly as sin and heavy as lead but seemed well aligned. As it was drilled for an LA/FP 40, etc. I hung an LA 46 on it and found that it flew pretty well.
I would think that it could be competitive through intermediate and perhaps into advanced assuming enough power. The LA 46 is a good choice or perhaps a really strong 40. The Evo 36 is somewhat unknown(I am waiting for one myself) so it might suffice. Major horsepower would likely be helpful even in a lighter version due to the huge drag of the design.
I gave my example away to a guy who could fly OK and was thinking about competition stunt. He lost it in the wind with an ST G21 35 for power.
BTW-they do not handle crash damage well.
Keep us posted.
Jim

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2008, 02:06:48 PM »

Agree: Not the best choice on a windy day.
Disagree: "do not take crash damage well" With fuselage mounted gear, wings solidly attached and keyed into the profile fuselage and no vulnerable wing cut-out/attachment point right behind the tank and engine, it has been my personal and observed experience that they actually handle uncontrolled contact with terra firma better than most models.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2008, 02:12:22 PM »

the 38 flies really well and looks good in the air. I had a LA46 on the front of mine which was overkill - but it would just go where I pointed it.

take heed of the wind comments - this is how i lost my one - it got into turbulent air (wind) dropped about 2-3 feet and the top wing popped off - they do not fly with the bottom wing only

fun airplane - not sure it would do so well in PA tho -

kenneth cook · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2008, 02:36:10 PM »

One thing if I was to build another one, would be to change that aluminum gear. Everytime I landed it would bend. I think I'd opt for music wire. I like the performance of it though it had a LA.46 in the nose and it flew pretty good. Ken Cook

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2008, 05:16:24 AM »

Wow! Thanks for all the comments! Kinda surprised that its mentioned as 'not a windy plane'. Figuring the weight and the 40ish motors that several have run, it would punch right through the wind. Been rethinking the engine size too. Several mentioned a 46 and it flew good. Ehhh ... got plenty of time to decide on that. I'm trying to finish up a Flite Streak I'm rebuilding and modifying. I'm in the Ultracote covering phase .... and boy, do I need practice! I look at some of the art work that you guys put together ..... awesome! If I could do half as good, I'd be pleased. Until I get better, I dont think I'll post any pics .... Hahaha!

Looking forward to starting the 38 Special!

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2008, 07:02:27 AM »

I need to fly my "38 Special" more often. Started out with Fox 35 Stunt and flew complete patterns. Problem was getting engine tank combination to work. Switched to OS 35 FP and what a difference. Now flying on longer lines. To me it is a great little bi-plane. DOC Holliday

jim welch · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2008, 03:38:56 PM »

The 38 special is an excelent flying airplane that will do anything you ask it to.Mine has an la46, 63 foot lines,built both wings from Riley wood (light).I did dork it 2 weeks ago but fixed it right away.The top wing popped out clean, and the bottom wing broke in the center but plugged back togeather rather nicely.Brush your teeth before you fly it because it will make you smile big time! Jim

Warren Leadbeatter · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2008, 01:15:17 AM »

Hi guys,

I have one of these. Great Fun Fly Plane. Mine uses a Thunder Tiger 40 which is ample power. It flies the PA pattern beautifully although I have never been able to get the TT40 to run right inverted no matter what I do with the tank position. Running on pressure improved it but it has always flown slower when inverted. I'm thinking about putting one of my Saito 30s on which I think will also be pleanty of power.

Anyways here's a pic of mine.

Cheers

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 15, 2008, 06:44:43 PM »

The 38 Special is gonna have to wait abit ... I smashed up my FS #2 yesterday.

Was practicing a new stunt, and although I had done it a dozen times prior .... for some reason, I screwed it up, and WHAM! Straight into the ground. Got another FS (almost could be a franken streak) thats covered ... I just have to put it together. Its supposed to be a backup plane, but I can never seem to get ahead. LOL!

Love the feedback you guys are giving on the 38 Special. Warren, thats a beauty ya got there ... nice pic! I am sooooo undecided on what engine to use. I like Evolution and OS .... the OS46LAS is alittle overkill .... cant find an OS40LAS ... Evolution 36 is a possibility if they would ship soon. I used to race Thunder Tiger marine engines, but they were real touchy. Decisions .... decisions .....

At least I'm getting good at one thing .... smashing up airplanes.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2008, 09:55:15 AM »

Well, I got "FS #1 - Rev 1" finished. Stock wing, modified fuse (3" longer - 1" nose, and 2" tail - solid balsa w/ply reinforcement), cut down rudder fin, and longer elevator. Should have used lighter materials .... it came in alot heavier than a stock FS. Took 2oz. in the nose to balance it off on the spar (3" from LE). Was real worried that it wouldn't fly with the OS 25LA. I dont have a scale to weight it .... I'll figure something out.

Got it to the field last night ..... let it go off the stooge ... take-off ran a good 20-30 feet .... and up and away she went! I was stoked on that first lap! Was extremley twitchy with all the elevator, but after the third flight I had it tamed right down and flying pretty good! Loops, lazy-eights, inverted and wingovers on the fourth and final flight of the night.

Got more adjustments to do this weekend, but I am just psyched that it even flies!!! Woohoo!

I know what I have to do when I start "FS - Rev 2" .... some things on "Rev 1" are just overkill.

Oh yeah, I gotta start on the 38 Special soon too. But these repairs and rebuilds are helping me in the building department, so I'm doing them first. Plus, I need a backup plane .... no doubt I'll smash up this one real soon. Hahaha!

I'll post some pics soon. They are still on the camera ...

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2008, 07:43:15 PM »

Hers a pic of the FS I promised. Flew it quite abit this weekend, and I'm pretty happy. FS-Rev 2 will fix alot of the dumb things in Rev 1. I've got a list together of needs for the 38Special. Hope to start it by next weekend.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

ray copeland · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2008, 08:16:11 PM »

Larry, just crashed my FS #1 , nose broke off fuse just like everyone said it would, cutting wood for #2, right now fuse is 2" long on tail and 1" long on nose, am fitting an os la 25 . Would you say this is going to be tailheavy? If so i can re cut fuse , i have not glued yet. Thanks for any tips, Ray

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2008, 05:29:21 AM »

Ray - Sorry to hear about the Streak ... but it was gonna happen sooner or later. My FS#1 - Rev1 in the pic above has the longer fuse (2" tail - 1" nose) and is made of solid balsa w/ plywood planking down one side. The rudder and stabilizer is made from ply, and the elevator is bigger than stock. It came in real tail heavy. When I do it again, all the tail fins will be made of balsa and I'll go back to stock dimensions for the elevator. I'l still plank the fuselage, but I'll beef up the motor mount area.

One problem I'm having now is when I tighten down the motor, my offset shims are compressing the nose mounts .... this takes the offset right out. It was an interseting first flight with no engine offset yesterday!! I have some small plastic pieces I made to prevent the compression, but the nose is way too soft. I'm adding some plywood now, and hopefully it will take care of it.

Even with as much weight as it has .... its amazing how well it flies. Takes 20-30 feet for takeoff, but once its in the air and up to speed, its pretty good! Its pretty 'hearty' too ... on the flight with no engine offset, I got slack lines and had to run. Pancaked it into the ground. Normally that would have ended my day with a few days of repairs, but other than bent landing gear, there wasn't a mark on it!

Below is a pic of FS#1 ... I was able to repair the wing, and is used in Rev 1 ..... the pic posted 2 messages back.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Bob Disharoon · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2008, 05:56:43 AM »

Yup..I've seen that sight before. The second arf FS I bought, before assembly, was to cut open fuse around the wing opening and stuff pieces of scrap balsa with Elmers glue into it in all directions until it was totally full.Amazing how much wood it took!..Anyway, it flies fine and is very fast with a 25.While doing a wingover, i put it in nose first and NOTHING broke but the rudder.I may have lucked out, but maybe the beefing up made the difference.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2008, 07:31:03 AM »

Quote from: Bob Disharoon on June 23, 2008, 05:56:43 AM

While doing a wingover, i put it in nose first....

Thats exactly why the FS #1 in the above pic looks the way it does .... LOL! Straight in, nothing but ground!

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2008, 07:52:09 AM »

You might try putting brass tubing thru the holes of the mounts to stop the compression of the mounts. Leave off the blind nuts(T-nuts). Also an aluminum plate will help also. DOC Holliday

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2008, 08:12:57 AM »

John, Good idea on the brass tubes, I hadn't thought of that. I use 2 hard plastic pads on the 'nut-side' of the fuse. Those work out great, and are light weight. I've yet to use blind nuts ... lock washers, locktite, and regular nuts seem to do well.

<---- Making mental note of the brass tubes ---->

Thanks! Larry (Larrys4227)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #23 on:** June 24, 2008, 07:57:08 AM »

I myself use the nuts with the nylon insert that locks them onto the bolt. Have had bolts break with the nut still in place. Need to use a little less force on tightening. Have fun, DOC Holliday

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 24, 2008, 03:00:29 PM »

I ended up using the brass tubes ... excellent tip! I use locktite on all my nuts (well, not ALL of my nuts ... LOL) and have never had one come loose, but I have had several bolts snap. It usually happened when there was excess vibration, EG: not getting the engne tightened down enough.

Getting it tight enough has been my current dilema, but I believe the brass tubes has helped that AND kept the engine at the offset. Will find out thursday if its all good ... and then I can move onto a) repairing pieces to put together FS - Rev2, b) start building the 38 Special kit, or c) start building the kit I just won.

Hmmmmmmm ....... these choices are actually all good .....

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 09, 2008, 07:08:07 AM »

I finally started my 38Special last week! Bottom wing is 80% done, and the top wing is half done. I decided on the Evolution 36 for power. I'm not even close, but my mind keeps difting to what the scheme is gonna be .... lots of assembly before I get to that point.

Assembly pics are being taken. When I get a few worthwhile, I'll post 'em.

Very psyched about this plane!

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #26 on:** September 09, 2008, 11:59:56 AM »

Larry,
The first time I saw a picture of Wynn's I wanted one. I look forward to the pictures. I like Bipe of any kind. Even the Bi-Slob.

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #27 on:** September 09, 2008, 01:53:30 PM »

Best 38 Special I ever saw flying was at Brodaks a few years back. It was powered by a perfect Super Tiger .46! At the time I thought this was a match made in heaven!

Don't remember whose it was but might have been Dammerel's.

Ward-O

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:46:29 AM »

Heres a couple shots that didnt come out too bad. In the background of one, you can see my next project ... Vector40 (June winner)!!

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #29 on:** September 11, 2008, 08:15:39 AM »

Looking good. Keep it light with a good dependable engine and they fly great. At least mine flies better than I do. Have fun, DOC Holliday

Brad B · « **Reply #30 on:** September 11, 2008, 08:36:52 AM »

I wonder how the new Evo 36 would work with the 38 special. Anyone have any thoughts?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #31 on:** September 11, 2008, 08:51:49 AM »

Should work great. DOC Holliday

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 11, 2008, 11:31:08 AM »

In the second pic you can see that I got the wing LE taped, letting the sheeting glue dry. Last night, I un-pinned the wing to work on the other side, and dang .... if there wasn't a warp in the TE.

Its not too bad and I should be able to get it out. Must have got something twisted in the ribs/spar assembly. The first wing came out great .... I guess that teaches me to be too excitable. LOL!! Been a long time since I last built a plane. I should expect stuff like this.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Bill Little · « **Reply #33 on:** September 13, 2008, 12:35:02 PM »

I remember the first time I saw Tom Dixon's 38 Special. I do not remember the engine he used (??), but it was more than capable of flying a great pattern. Tom designed the plane with the pattern in mind. I would probably find a good use for my LA 46 if I built one! LOL!!

Mongo

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #34 on:** September 13, 2008, 01:30:17 PM »

Remember a couple of things...Tom could probably fly an OK .049 powered 38 Spl. in a 30 knot wind. He is a master with underpowered airplanes! Next... Bi Planes are very draggy. They need horse power for you and I ! ! !

Ward-O

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #35 on:** September 13, 2008, 04:46:53 PM »

Can't wait to see it Larry...I was sorta thinkin' in that direction too...

Phil

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #36 on:** September 15, 2008, 09:52:48 AM »

Not disputing any of the above statements but a frequent poster in this forum who is the previous "Master of the figure 9" used to fly an excellent pattern with a light 38 Special powered by a Fox .35. That being said, I have a K&B .40 on mine and the extra power is appreciated. Another flier I know (who is no longer involved with C/L) flew one with an FP.40 on a tuned pipe - ugly but it worked and he flew a very competitive advanced class pattern with it. From what info I've gained from bench running my Evo .36 I think it would be a good choice for a .38 Special. That is one strong engine!

John Miller · « **Reply #37 on:** September 15, 2008, 02:42:01 PM »

I got my clock cleaned severral times by that fellow and his piped fp .40 on a 38 special. It flew a pretty good pattern. Sorry to hear he's no longer invloved with CL. Nice fellow he was.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 24, 2008, 04:59:44 AM »

The wings are almost finished. Pics below were taken a couple days ago, and the tips are now on. Few more cosmetics, and sanding begins. Then I can finally start on the fuse. Looking forward to that .... and getting the EVO 36 permanently out of the box.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Michael Floerchinger · « **Reply #39 on:** October 24, 2008, 06:02:03 AM »

Hello Larry,

I built a 38 special from scratch, I cannot remember what the weight was but it was ultra light. I used a reworked Fox 35 and competed with the plane, it flew very well, even in the wind. Good luck with yours, I am sure you are going to thoroughly enjoy it.

Mike

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:12:35 AM »

Thanks Michael -- I'm certainly looking forward to the plane. Sometimes I have to tell myself to slow down, because I want it finished and flying .... but am also enjoying building it.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Phil Spillman · « **Reply #41 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:55:13 PM »

#^I've had a 38 Special for the past 8 years or so and have gotten it out whenever I needed a smile on my face! Mine is powered by an LA .40 using muffler pressure an 11 X 4 Pro Zinger prop. It performs the entire PA pattern well and lands well with 2.25 wheels in grass. I hope that you enjoy your's as much as I have enjoyed mine!

Phil Spillman