Brewster Buffalo any promise

[Richard Logston]

8 or so years back a designed this Brewster Buffalo as a RC profile model. It is powered by an OS 70 four stroke engine. I have always been fascinated by the Buff even with all it's frailties. It was a fun airplane to fly. Now it is retired to hanging up in the shed. Let's just say it is mothballed. I guess i'm asking if I were to redraw the plans for a U/C airplane should I reduce the size for a smaller engine or leave it as is and install a bellcrank and leadouts. You may note from the pictures the airplane is finished as a "Flying Chiefs" airplane.

[Steve Helmick]

Well...I talked with Pat Johnston about a couple of Gee Bee profiles he designed for the ST .60bb. He said the flier could see the "standing wave" in the flying lines. I think that would be real unpleasant.

However, local (but seldom seen) Expert flier Jerry Eichten stuck a ST G.51 on a stock Brodak P-40 Warhawk Profile ARF (which Pat designed).  Jerry liked the combination a lot. The G.51 pretty much flies anything a ST .60bb flies, but with a lot less vibration, at about 1,000 rpm higher. The OEM muffler is just stupidly huge and heavy, but certainly is quiet. What is the power you're contemplating?  Steve

[Richard Logston]

Steve thanks for your reply. The RC version in the post required the OS 70 FS in order to balance. If I were to redesign it, I would shoot for power in the 35 to 40 range I think. The short nose can be problematic trying to balance without added wt. up front. It is hard to tell in the pictures, but the fuselage is built up and not a solid slab. Also the empennage is built up. Covering is ultracote. If I should  convert it to U/C it would be a fly for fun airplane, maybe even retaining RC throttle. The RC design as it is in the pictures carries the RC gear and battery in the wing root area. Actually it would be possible to add a bellcrank and pushrod through the wing compartments. and remove the left wing tip covering to install the leadout guide. Would it be too strong of a pull to fly with the 70FS? Richard in Aberdeen

[Mark Scarborough]

How hard it pulls will depend on how fast it flies, how long the lines are, how much it weighs, and how its trimmed. A full size stunter weighing 72 ounces pulls a very managable amount. I can make about 5 or 6 flights back to back before my forearm begins to complain. If I wait a few minutes between flights I could fly all day, assuming my concentration holds up that is...
so in your case, I would say that flight trim will be the determining factor

[Fred Cronenwett]

Having flown an 80" span model with an OS-91FX engine (16" prop) with throttle control your model would do well as is. Mine came in at 12 lbs but was not designed to do aerobatics. Depending upon what you want to do, scale vs aerobatics it can be flown as a CL model.

It is larger than the average CL model but I have broken that rule too many times now. If the model weighs less than 20 lbs I can make any RC airplane fly in the CL circle. But you do need throttle control to keep the speed within reason to keep the line tension reasonable.

Put an adjustable leadout guide on and install a bellcrank to control the elevator and you are in business. If it has 2.4 ghz leave that on as well and fly it with throttle.

Fred

[Richard Logston]

Fred, we are thinking along the same lines.( Lines, no pun intended) Richard

[Richard Logston]

I plead guilty, hoping for a light sentence. Richard

[M Spencer]

Very Good .

What amazes me is that nobodys done aBrewsterBermuda semi scale stunt   probly scared of the triangle .  ?

The Buffalo aparently worked , in arctic climes, like the P 63.  Finland they actually flew .

[Richard Logston]

I have considered the Brewster Bermuda, another great model airplane design, poor full scale design. Brewster airplanes failed to live up to their original promotions, but retain an important place in history.Richard

[Tim Wescott]

Very Good .

What amazes me is that nobodys done aBrewsterBermuda semi scale stunt   probly scared of the triangle .  ?

The Buffalo aparently worked , in arctic climes, like the P 63.  Finland they actually flew .

The story that I heard was that the Finnish version had a bunch of stuff removed vs. the US Navy version.  As a consequence, the plane performed better.

[Tim Wescott]

I have considered the Brewster Bermuda, another great model airplane design, poor full scale design. Brewster airplanes failed to live up to their original promotions, but retain an important place in history.Richard

The Bermuda looks like it has much better proportions for Stunt.  For just flying around your Buffalo should work OK -- it's a bit short-coupled for stunt, though.

[Dane Martin]

I can't tell what servos you have, but imagine a standard plastic geared servo is approx. 1.5 oz. So you have at least 3oz plus linkage weights behind the cg point. There's lots to remove to be able to cg the plane with much less engine, saving even more weight. Just looking at you holding the plane, I'd say you could easily get a manageable CL plane out of that.
 
 Now, I'm strictly talking weight and looks. I know nothing about stunt plane design.

[Richard Logston]

Dane, Good observations. Richard

[Fred Cronenwett]

Look at the June 2015 issue of Model aviation, I had a feature article on how to convert RC kits and ARF's to CL using electronics (2.4 Ghz or down the line) and it talk about where to put the leadout guide and other setup for the CL mode.

Nice part about throttle control is that you can always throttle back to get the flying speed you want.

Fred

[Richard Logston]

Thanks for the info Fred, As I am allot older throttle control is a welcome thought. Going in circles seems to make the engine run longer, like having a tiger by the tail and no place to run. Richard

[John Rist]

Extra 300S with Sato 120 4C.  Flies good but not a stunter.  Converted from a Great Planes RC kit.  Has a throttle and pulls like a bear.

[PerttiMe]

The story that I heard was that the Finnish version had a bunch of stuff removed vs. the US Navy version.  As a consequence, the plane performed better.

They were shipped without all the Naval gear, and some other stuff, and equipped with lower powered but apparently lighter engines. So they handled well. The Soviet airplanes and pilots weren't all that hot at the time when these entered service, either.

"gentleman's traveling plane with room for pilot, a couple of passengers a German Shepherd dog and some luggage"
http://web.archive.org/web/20120405144702/http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finace01.htm

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

What a great read....thanks for the link!

[Steve Helmick]

What a great read....thanks for the link!

You beat me to it, Glenn. I read and enjoyed the entire three pages. Interesting history. I believe the Latvians have some interesting WWII era aviation history also. I'd have to dig up links to it, but I'll re-post Mr. PerttiMe's link for now, in the hope that more will take the opportunity to read it.  Steve

http://web.archive.org/web/20120405144702/http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finace01.htm

[PerttiMe]

You beat me to it, Glenn. I read and enjoyed the entire three pages. Interesting history. I believe the Latvians have some interesting WWII era aviation history also. I'd have to dig up links to it, but I'll re-post Mr. PerttiMe's link for now, in the hope that more will take the opportunity to read it.  Steve

http://web.archive.org/web/20120405144702/http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finace01.htm

Ilmari Juutilainen was the highest scoring non-German ace of WW2 - and got 34 of his confirmed victories flying the Brewster Buffalo. He says enemy fighters never hit his airplane - but he did get hit by flak. He never lost a wingman in combat.

In light of more recent research, it is unlikely that he shot down Spitfires and P-51s. Most likely he, and others,  mistook some Soviet designs for those.