BRAIDED CONTROL LINES?

[Claudio Chacon]

Hi guys!
Back in the 90's, I bought from Stellar Specialties some braided line sets (I'm still using them). They are more flexible than the 0,018" ones and have a bit less diameter (may be 0,0165 or close).
I know that Stellar is no longer in business since then, and I would like to see if I can get the same lines from other source.
Anyone?

On the other hand, I'd like to know what lines are most used in the States (at the Nats or any other major contest, for instance):

Do you guys prefer any brand or kind of steel on braided lines?

Thanks in advance for any info...
Claudio.

[Dave_Trible]

Hi guys!
Back in the 90's, I bought from Stellar Specialties some braided line sets (I'm still using them). They are more flexible than the 0,018" ones and have a bit less diameter (may be 0,0165 or close).
I know that Stellar is no longer in business since then, and I would like to see if I can get the same lines from other source.
Anyone?

On the other hand, I'd like to know what lines are most used in the States (at the Nats or any other major contest, for instance):

Do you guys prefer any brand or kind of steel on braided lines?

Thanks in advance for any info...
Claudio.

I don't think there are many choices left.   Most everyone gets their lines and related line clips etc, from MBS Supply.   Google them.  Melvin is great to work with.   Some were using four strand brass? lines from Ukraine that were around .016 dia.   Those may also still be available.  That is all I am familiar with nowadays.   Like very many things we use the market is down to one or two options. (Hint: let's try to support them)

Dave

[Paul Smith]

Do you really mean "braided"?

The standard multi-strand line is 7-strand corecable.  One strand is the center strand and the other six wrap around it. So the nominal diameter is size one strand times three.  .005" x 3 = .015", which is the basic size of midside control line. 

[Motorman]

https://mbsmodelsupply.com/

[John Skukalek]

Another source for flying lines is Brodak Mfg.

[Claudio Chacon]

I don't think there are many choices left.   Most everyone gets their lines and related line clips etc, from MBS Supply.   Google them.  Melvin is great to work with.   Some were using four strand brass? lines from Ukraine that were around .016 dia.   Those may also still be available.  That is all I am familiar with nowadays.   Like very many things we use the market is down to one or two options. (Hint: let's try to support them)

Dave

Thanks Dave.
I'll contact them...

Regards,
Claudio.

[Claudio Chacon]

Do you really mean "braided"?

The standard multi-strand line is 7-strand corecable.  One strand is the center strand and the other six wrap around it. So the nominal diameter is size one strand times three.  .005" x 3 = .015", which is the basic size of midside control line.

Yes, braided wire or stranded wire. Both are sinonimous.
I meant not solid wire.

[Dan McEntee]

Yes, braided wire or stranded wire. Both are sinonimous.
I meant not solid wire.

  I think what he means is what they used to call "lay straight" lines. They were a brownish color and more "limp" than typical shiny steel lines and almost impossible to see in the grass. I think these were the 19 strand kind of cable and most of what you see are 7 strand. I have a set or two of the lines made by Stellar and some others that I and not sure of the source but probably from the same place. Some one has to make the bulk material and it's probably used for some other purpose. The trick is finding the manufacturer and` then a supplier.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Claudio Chacon]

  I think what he means is what they used to call "lay straight" lines. They were a brownish color and more "limp" than typical shiny steel lines and almost impossible to see in the grass. I think these were the 19 strand kind of cable and most of what you see are 7 strand. I have a set or two of the lines made by Stellar and some others that I and not sure of the source but probably from the same place. Some one has to make the bulk material and it's probably used for some other purpose. The trick is finding the manufacturer and` then a supplier.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Hi Dan...yes.
Those "brownish" ones are the lines I am looking for (the reel on the left hand side in the pic posted...the other are Brodak's).

Thanks,
Claudio.

[Brett Buck]

  I think what he means is what they used to call "lay straight" lines. They were a brownish color and more "limp" than typical shiny steel lines and almost impossible to see in the grass.

   The brown ones used to be called "core cables" or something like that. They are 19-strand. Laystrates/StayStrates are something completely different, soldered 3-strand much like the Ukrainian line with solder

   I do not recommend the 19-strand lines. They are extremely prone to damage where a single strand will pull out of the bundle in a loop. They also feel more compliant to me, but it's not different enough to be entirely sure. They are also very hard to see, particularly in the grass,  so prone to damage from people who cannot see them in the pits.

     Laystrate/StayStrates are pretty good. The problem with them used to be that the available diameters fell just a little short of the former AMA line size requirement for the equivalent airplane. That is no longer an issue, so worth another try.

      Brett

[Dennis Toth]

Sources for  Laystrate/StayStrates lines?

Best,   DennisT

[Lauri Malila]

Sources for  Laystrate/StayStrates lines?

Best,   DennisT

Try PAW in UK. www.eifflaender.com

L

[Steve Helmick]

As previously mentioned, "braided" control lines are NOT braided, but twisted. I'm shocked that nobody has provided a link to McMaster-Carr, so I looked it up there. I have not purchased anything from them, but am amazed that they list .015", .016", .018", .020" and .021". Plus various materials, strand configurations and such. I know that our usual stuff is some sort of stainless steel, and McM-Carr lists 18-8, which means that it's 18% Nickle and 8% Chrome. I don't know if the Brodak, SIG and Pylon/Sullivan lines are (or were) the same alloy. I have not bought anything from MBS. Between Brodak, MBS and McMaster-Carr, you've got some options.               

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/~/diameter~0-016/?s=.015+stainless+steel+cable

Also, I recall reading that Pylon/Sullivan has been sold and/or moved, but supposed to still be in business. I have ordered direct from them some years ago, and it was a little odd because the shipment actually came from a retail hobby shop, not Sullivan per se. Attempting to support their hobby shop customer by this. What I bought was line clips (Derek Moran style wire ones) and a new switch for the electric finger.

I have some Stellar lines NIP, but don't think I've ever used them. I have used the 19 strand cables Brett mentioned, and he's exactly right on them...too stretchy and too prone to damage. I have also used the "bronzed" cables, and do what I can to AVOID them, because silvery finish shows up much better on grass in the pits. I got a bulk spool of .015 and .018 from RSM, who went out of business some years past.    Steve

[Massimo Rimoldi]

Adriano Molteni (Italian F2D flyer) provides excellent 4-wire lines in brass-plated carbon steel with a diameter of 0.4 mm (0.016"). The performance is very similar to the Ukrainian ones, I have never done a resistance test but it seems that only one cable breaks at a traction of 28 kg (61.7 lbs). If I'm not mistaken Matt Colan uses them or in any case he used them at last year's world championships

Massimo

[Robert Zambelli]

Many years ago when I was working at Xerox, I designed cable driven scan systems.
We bought all our cables from SAVA.
The quality was excellent.
I don't know if they sell to the general public but it might be worth a try.

          www.savacable.com/products

  Bob Z.

[Matt Colan]

Adriano Molteni (Italian F2D flyer) provides excellent 4-wire lines in brass-plated carbon steel with a diameter of 0.4 mm (0.016"). The performance is very similar to the Ukrainian ones, I have never done a resistance test but it seems that only one cable breaks at a traction of 28 kg (61.7 lbs). If I'm not mistaken Matt Colan uses them or in any case he used them at last year's world championships

Massimo

Correct! I used them at the worlds and still use them today. I really really like the lines. I used to use 7 strand .018” and these have a more solid, more connected feel compared to .018”. I’ve never used solids but I’ve been told the feeling is similar to solids. The spool Adriano sent me is good for 6 sets of lines I believe. So far I’ve made three sets and I wrap them just like regular .018”

[Paul Smith]

With 7-strand corecable the first pound or two tightly wraps the other strands, then the lines pull like solids.  With a combat or racing plane, this is no big thing.  But if your flying style includes letting on line go slack and hanging on the other, the initial taking-up of the slack might be an issue.

[Brett Buck]

With 7-strand corecable the first pound or two tightly wraps the other strands, then the lines pull like solids.  With a combat or racing plane, this is no big thing.  But if your flying style includes letting on line go slack and hanging on the other, the initial taking-up of the slack might be an issue.

    All wire ropes depend on the same premise.  On the 7-strand cables, the individual strands are stiff enough to prevent that most of the time. In the 19-strand lines, the individual strands are so small, and the outer wrap is really just that, an outer wrap that doesn't line up with the inner 7-strand "core", so they are extremely prone to looping out of the bundle.  It probably would pull back in if you put enough load on it, but once it loops out, it is extremely prone to damage, and it if gets damaged you no longer hae any idea what is going to happen,

  "Corecables" was a brand name for 19-strand cables, the "core" presumably being the inner 7-strand section that formed the "core" around which the other 12 strands were wound. They are indeed more flexible (as advertised) because the individual strands of a particular size cable were much smaller, and the outer wrap was not particularly tight to the inner 7, causing the issue mentioned above.

   I am also not familiar with any competition situation where you are routinely (or even occasionally) "hanging on one line". I know if you are doing that in a stunt contest, you are also going to lose every time.

    Brett

[kevin king]

Some people call them strings. In some circles that's blasphemy.

[944_Jim]

Mr. Claudio,
Your brown cable looks an awful lot like the stuff I like:
https://www.afwfishing.com/products/parent_Surfstrand_Bare_1x7_Stainless_Steel_Leader_Wire.asp?childskumatch=

Look for SurfStrand...the one ending in "Lon" is probably ny"Lon" coated.

Regardless of "Lon's" chemical make up, you want the "Strand." Select "camo" instead of "bright" to get the color you are searching for.

Anither company used to be called CableStrand, and sold "Flying Line" in large spools. See history here:
https://www.usafishingwire.com/pages/about-us

They sell Accustrand, but with $100 minimums:
https://www.usafishingwire.com/collections/accustrand-leader-wire/products/accustrand-1-000-foot-spool-camouflage-7-strand-stainless-steel

[Claudio Chacon]

Mr. Claudio,
Your brown cable looks an awful lot like the stuff I like:
https://www.afwfishing.com/products/parent_Surfstrand_Bare_1x7_Stainless_Steel_Leader_Wire.asp?childskumatch=

Look for SurfStrand...the one ending in "Lon" is probably ny"Lon" coated.

Regardless of "Lon's" chemical make up, you want the "Strand." Select "camo" instead of "bright" to get the color you are searching for.

Anither company used to be called CableStrand, and sold "Flying Line" in large spools. See history here:
https://www.usafishingwire.com/pages/about-us

They sell Accustrand, but with $100 minimums:
https://www.usafishingwire.com/collections/accustrand-leader-wire/products/accustrand-1-000-foot-spool-camouflage-7-strand-stainless-steel

Thank you very much Sir for taking the time to search for all this info for me.
Much obliged, 
Claudio.

[Claudio Chacon]

Hello guys!
I'm very grateful to all of you for posting all this info.

See you around...!
Claudio.

[M Spencer]

Packets normally yellow .https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/laystrate-control-line-wire-control-501509375

STAYSTRATE is Effilander ( P.A.W. wire ) from their machines , all curly & soldered , simulteaneously ! differant thing altogether .

LAYSTATES 3 strand 12 thou , 5 strand 15thou , or 7 strand 18 thou . V Good but unobtainium



I envisage it from gi Normous  steel wire mass production factories , in my thoughts .  SO theres totally differant packets , at least THREE Ive Seen .

[katana]

Oooh The memories of buying those little yellow Keilkraft spools in the UK, Holding one end under a brick, running the spool down and back up the garden then putting the other end under the brick. Back down the pair of wires to the return loop - cut and instant pair of 50 foot lines ! Quick loops either end secured with solder and go fly! Those were the days - so cheap that we didn't worry about kinks as the planes didn't last longer than the lines LOL!

[Lauri Malila]

A fun fact; The Staystrate (PAW) line originates from the Danish combat pilot Henning Forbech. Henning's hell-machine for making the line then somehow ended to Eifflaenders. L

[Howard Rush]

Bill Maywald sells Adriano’s lines in the US.