BOM rule

[David M Johnson]

Just as a clarification,  at VSC events and particularly the Ringmaster events.  Does anyone have input on how the BOM rule would apply, and what documentation would be required?  For example would I need photos of me in a pile of balsa dust with parts on my bench? Or a photo journal of some sort? 

I'm intrigued by the event and have started a plane so that I can learn the pattern and fly the contest but I would be less than happy to show up and not be able to participate because I didn't have something, or used the wrong engine/Ringmaster plane/ or whatever the judging was looking at.  Please understand I have only been to one or two stunt events and so I'm quite new on how these get judged. 

My plane or planes are S-1 s and I will most likely be building 2 or 3.  I feel like that way as I am practicing and crash one I won't have any down time needed to repair.  As for engines I have a selection to chose from a Veco .19 (doesn't have a muffler and is very stout), Fox .29 (almost brand new),  Bone stock Fox .35 (Really worn), Fox .35 ( reworked by Larry Forrester and is pretty much new), LA .25 (bone stock but muffled), and a Magnum GP .25 (muffled and in good shape).

Any thoughts of disparaging Foxes will be ignored, those are my choices in engines and I am not looking to go out an purchase anything different because somebody thinks its a good idea. 

[Clancy Arnold]

David
Built from reasonably light wood any of those engines should get you in the air.

For best performance I would go with one of the Foxes with a 10 x 6 wide blade prop.  Wood prop preferred.
Clancy
 

[billbyles]

Just as a clarification,  at VSC events and particularly the Ringmaster events.  Does anyone have input on how the BOM rule would apply, and what documentation would be required?  For example would I need photos of me in a pile of balsa dust with parts on my bench? Or a photo journal of some sort? 

I'm intrigued by the event and have started a plane so that I can learn the pattern and fly the contest but I would be less than happy to show up and not be able to participate because I didn't have something, or used the wrong engine/Ringmaster plane/ or whatever the judging was looking at.  Please understand I have only been to one or two stunt events and so I'm quite new on how these get judged. 

My plane or planes are S-1 s and I will most likely be building 2 or 3.  I feel like that way as I am practicing and crash one I won't have any down time needed to repair.  As for engines I have a selection to chose from a Veco .19 (doesn't have a muffler and is very stout), Fox .29 (almost brand new),  Bone stock Fox .35 (Really worn), Fox .35 ( reworked by Larry Forrester and is pretty much new), LA .25 (bone stock but muffled), and a Magnum GP .25 (muffled and in good shape).

Any thoughts of disparaging Foxes will be ignored, those are my choices in engines and I am not looking to go out an purchase anything different because somebody thinks its a good idea. 

I highly recommend the L&J Fox .35 by Larry Foster; I have had one since 1994 & it is still running just fine.  It will start easily cold or hot & is balanced much better than a stock Fox so runs quite a bit smoother.  Larry worked for Honeywell doing balancing of small high-speed commercial aerospace equipment which translated well to balancing the Foxes.

[Terrence Durrill]

Just as a clarification,  at VSC events and particularly the Ringmaster events.  Does anyone have input on how the BOM rule would apply, and what documentation would be required?  For example would I need photos of me in a pile of balsa dust with parts on my bench? Or a photo journal of some sort? 

I'm intrigued by the event and have started a plane so that I can learn the pattern and fly the contest but I would be less than happy to show up and not be able to participate because I didn't have something, or used the wrong engine/Ringmaster plane/ or whatever the judging was looking at.  Please understand I have only been to one or two stunt events and so I'm quite new on how these get judged. 

My plane or planes are S-1 s and I will most likely be building 2 or 3.  I feel like that way as I am practicing and crash one I won't have any down time needed to repair.  As for engines I have a selection to chose from a Veco .19 (doesn't have a muffler and is very stout), Fox .29 (almost brand new),  Bone stock Fox .35 (Really worn), Fox .35 ( reworked by Larry Forrester and is pretty much new), LA .25 (bone stock but muffled), and a Magnum GP .25 (muffled and in good shape).

Any thoughts of disparaging Foxes will be ignored, those are my choices in engines and I am not looking to go out an purchase anything different because somebody thinks its a good idea.

If you are nostalgia minded, use one of the Foxes...I have used Foxes on my S-1 Ringmasters since 1955.....still do.         

[Randy Cuberly]

I can't speak to the Brothers of the Ring or any special Ringmaster events but for VSC The S1 Ringmaster built to the various kits or plans qualifies for either "Old Time" or "Classic" events.  The later version with the sheeted leading edge does not.

Old Time at VSC has no Builder of The Model rule and anything that qualifies for the time period of being designed and/or flown prior to December 31st 1952 can be flown.
PAMPA rules apply and the basic outline, airfoils, and moments etc. may not be changed.
Landing gear position may not be changed.  There are no appearance points awarded in Old Time.

The Builder of the Model rule does apply to Classic but ony in the sense of appearance points.  Appearance points are awarded if you are the builder.  If you are not the builder, you may still fly but no appearance points are awarded.

As for engines, any of those mentioned are very good.  My personal choice for the Ringmaster is the OS LA 25.  I flew a Ringmaster in Old Time for several years with an LA25 and it worked very, very well.  The weight and power is a perfect match and the Ringmaster will fly the Oldtime pattern a well as anything in existence...except of course that they are nearly impossible to land without bouncing due to the gear location.  Unless of course if you're David Fitzgerald or Ted Fancher.

I used a 10-3 or 10-4 APC prop depending on wind conditions (using the 3 pitch and higher RPM in high winds reduces windup), but the 10-4 launched at about 10,200 RPM is a great setup for normal conditions...10 to 15% nitro and 22% half castor and half klotz oil.  The stock OS Muffler produces very good power but is heavy.  I used a tongue muffler for the most part running muffler pressure on a uniflo profile tank...great runs and the slight recuction in power vs the stock muffler is not really of any consequence on the Ringmaster.
My Ringmasters (both of them) weighed 18.5 oz...if significantly heavier than that the stock muffler might be better for balance.
The Larry Foster Fox35 would be my second choice.  They can run very well.  However for a profile the extra vibration of the Fox is more destructive than the LA and is a little more sensitive to tank set up because of that.  The Fox needs a stiff engine mount to give good reliable runs, and the stock Ringmaster is not very stiff.   I won't go into the Fox burp because it's never been a problem for me.

As for documentation at VSC there is none required if you're using a well known design like a Ringmaster.  Some little known design that is not well documented will require some explanation and justification (documentation) for entry.

Randy Cuberly

[FLOYD CARTER]

With such a well-known design as the Ringmaster S-1, the slightest variation from "stock" will be noticed!

I once scratch-built a S-1 from plans.  I made an aluminum rib template for root and tip, then stacked balsa for carving the ribs.  Well, I mis-counted the number of balsa pieces and ended up with one rib too many on each wing panel.  So I adjusted the rib spacing and went ahead.

It surprised me how many modelers caught my error.  The number of ribs!  Really!

I wasn't DQ'd at a contest, but I took a beating for deviating from the stock design.

Floyd

[Jim Thomerson]

In OTS under PAMPA rules, there is a 5 point bonus for building your own airplane.

[Mike Keville]

For the final word on all this, I suggest you contact the 2014 C.D., Jim Hoffman:

windswept4 at cox dot net

[Sean McEntee]

I have an L&J Fox on my ringmaster and it really hauls the mail.  Larry does great work and that motor with a RSM 10x6 would be the cat's meow.

If built reasonably light, that LA25 would work great too.  For that you would need the stock muffler and an APC 10x4, spun up to the 10,000RPM range.  The 25 does not like to run in a traditional 2-4 break, but it loves running wide open.  Both my dad and myself have been successful running LA25s on Sig Primary Forces, so it will do well with the ringmaster.


Good luck!

[Bill Little]

Hi David,

I have flown Ringmasters with all kinds of engines.  McCoys, Foxes, Veco .19BB, Fox .36X, a Veco .35, and OS .30S and .35S.  They all flew respectfully well.  I have yet to use the .25LA, but have seen them in use and they did quite well.  Last year at the Huntersville meet I believe Danny Banjock won Classic with a RM and Fox .35.  Use the engine that you are most familiar with and have fun!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM