Author Topic: Body language and the "dead" hand (Read 5792 times)

Frank Sheridan · « **on:** August 22, 2009, 11:11:19 AM »

Some time back I viewed a YouTube video of a gentleman (I do not recall his name) flying the c/l pattern. I assumed he was flying the pattern because the video only showed the pilot performing his task from a distance of about ten feet. What caught my eye was the position of his unused arm and hand. His level of concentration was so intense that his hand "dangled" from his arm in a lifeless manner. Now when I see pictures of individuals flying planes I am intrigued by the body language exhibited during maneuvers. I cannot help but wonder if my "stance" or lack of it will inhibit my flying ability. In one of the pictures posted from the Nats I noticed the stance of Doug Moon in a picture with his feet placed much farther apart than the width of his shoulders. I may have to try this as I have never paid any attention to my own feet and hands during a flight. For all I know, I might exhibit the moves of the singer Joe Cocker while I'm flying.

Dick Fowler · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2009, 11:16:40 AM »

Joe Cocker...now that's funny! LOL

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2009, 11:40:15 AM »

I've seen a few good flyers hold it over their chest instead of at their side.

Speaking of Joe Cocker my first rock concert :

Filmore East May 1969.

Jeff Beck (Rod Stewart lead singer).
Joe Cocker and the Grease Band
NRBQ (New Rhythm and Blues Quartet) still touring after all of these years)).

That was quite a show.

Frank Sheridan · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2009, 11:51:46 AM »

Wow! And I thought I was old because I saw John Denver perform!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2009, 12:49:27 PM »

Somehow it seems wrong to put John Denver and Joe Cocker in the same context.

Dick Fowler · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2009, 12:58:37 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on August 22, 2009, 12:49:27 PM

Somehow it seems wrong to put John Denver and Joe Cocker in the same context.

DITTO on that but you have to admit that it is "Far Out"

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2009, 02:04:52 PM »

If you could get Joe's moves down just fake the singing and you could go on the circuit.

Phil

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2009, 03:13:01 PM »

Quote from: Dick Fowler on August 22, 2009, 12:58:37 PM

DITTO on that but you have to admit that it is "Far Out"

You gotta get the inflection just right..."F-A-A-A-A-R-R-R-R-R OUT!"

Mind you, I enjoy music from both...just for different reasons.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2009, 03:25:16 PM »

Quote from: Frank Sheridan on August 22, 2009, 11:11:19 AM

For all I know, I might exhibit the moves of the singer Joe Cocker while I'm flying.

Frank, I remember your flying style, and Joe Cocker it was...

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2009, 04:29:40 PM »

Whereja get that neat self-portrait, Richard ? ? ?

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2009, 04:35:07 PM »

Quote from: Ralph Wenzel on August 22, 2009, 04:29:40 PM

Whereja get that neat self-portrait, Richard ? ? ?

Stunning, simply stunning, isn't it? Curly and Moe gave it to me for my birthday,Ralph. They knew you were'nt going to give me that Flying Fool kit without the plans, so they pitched in and got it...

nyukyuk

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2009, 04:47:48 PM »

I find it very important to hold your tongue just right or it's hard to fly......

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2009, 04:56:29 PM »

Quote from: Scott Hartford on August 22, 2009, 04:47:48 PM

I find it very important to hold your tongue just right or it's hard to fly......

That's a bit dangerous, a slight low pull-out and you might lose the tongue!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2009, 06:20:27 AM »

Worked for Michael Jordan.

Bruce Shipp · « **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:09:54 AM »

http://www.elwp.com/Joe%20Cocker.html

I hope you remember the pattern better than he remembered the words

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #15 on:** August 23, 2009, 11:43:01 AM »

That was terrific, it takes me back. Loved the interpretive pictures. A little different style than John Denver. Joe is the original "air guitar" guy.

Frank Sheridan · « **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:34:55 PM »

So enough about musicians - has anybody ever written an article on body position relative to the maneuvers of the pattern?

phil c · « **Reply #17 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:58:56 PM »

Yess, if you can search through various posts and find it. The basic idea is to square yourself up to the maneuver, so you fly it facing the center of the maneuver. That lets you see where the plane has to go in order to get the correct shape better than flying it offhand.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:09:36 PM »

Hows that? "Hot Rock'n" Joe Cocker!

Now that's talent Frank! His "dead"hand is holding the mic stand.Oooh, I hear he's going to try and make the WC trials? Watch out Fitz!

Frank Sheridan · « **Reply #19 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:28:23 PM »

Oh, Geez.. Here's the caption: "I get by with a little help from my handle"

Shultzie · « **Reply #20 on:** August 23, 2009, 06:52:14 PM »

Quote from: Frank Sheridan on August 23, 2009, 05:28:23 PM

Oh, Geez.. Here's the caption: "I get by with a little help from my handle"

Frank n' Grogan...
U MADE MY DAY.....years ago...and I mean YEARS AGO...I had the pain and pleasure of sitting in on a Joe Cocker concert in Portland Oregon...when they needed a pick up trumpet player.
They sent me me the music about 2 month before the gig...but a few hours before the performance...Joe had changed most of the music...and it became a sight reading nightmare.
However we managed to EKKK!!!!! out a pretty good perfomance anyhoo.
Joe was truly a gifted soul brother and I just was blown away when I saw the enhanced photo with that HOT ROCK IN HIS HAND!!
THAT CRACKED MY A++ OFF! These were the years before Joe found some good meds! I remember seeing his arms..that we full of bumps n' bruises. Gads Joe had guts n soul in those early daze days...
Love that guys music...WOW! What a spirit!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #21 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:24:34 PM »

I see this has gotten off course. The placement of the feet and hands has a lot to do with balance. Everybody says they can tell when I am getting ready for a maneuver. I usually take a step ahead of the plane and plant my feet. Especially on maneuvers that go overhead or the top of the circle. Take time and watch some of the better flyers during their pattern and don't watch the plane. DOC Holliday

RC Storick · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2009, 09:27:23 AM »

Joe Cocker should have been a combat pilot..

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:56:37 AM »

Some of the top fliers hold the off hand against their chest.

Michael Floerchinger · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2009, 12:09:44 PM »

From what I have seen over the years everyone has their own “style” so to speak. It just comes naturally from years of practice. I have seen many try to adopt the stance/style of the experts and concentrate too much on stance and not enough on what the airplane is doing. I have been kidded about my gyrations out in the circle but I have no idea what I am doing out there, my concentration is on the airplane, I think my stance came about from years of practicing, focusing on the flight, the maneuvers, some of the best practice sessions and competition flights have been where my intensity level was so high that everything else is blocked out, there is a zone that is reached. It is a cool feeling when everything is working right.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2009, 12:17:50 PM »

Quote from: Jim Thomerson on August 24, 2009, 11:56:37 AM

Some of the top fliers hold the off hand against their chest.

I've watched Dee Rice fly, and noticed he grabs his cap bill and lifts it for better visibility during overhead maneuvers.Also,that other hand is a good thing to have when your PA ship leans way out unexpectantly, I hold on with both hands! 5minutes of extreme pull-test!woohoo!!

Frank Sheridan · « **Reply #26 on:** August 24, 2009, 03:07:56 PM »

I gotta be honest here, I am totally unaware of the world around me when I fly. Without an experienced flyer/coach to observe my actions, I will remain a sport flyer.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #27 on:** August 24, 2009, 03:24:20 PM »

Quote from: Jim Thomerson on August 24, 2009, 11:56:37 AM

Some of the top fliers hold the off hand against their chest.

I do that when I get near a maneuver, then after it, my hand goes back down to my side.

Quote from: Frank Sheridan on August 24, 2009, 03:07:56 PM

I gotta be honest here, I am totally unaware of the world around me when I fly. Without an experienced flyer/coach to observe my actions, I will remain a sport flyer.

Frank, if you get a video camera, then you could tape your flights and watch what you are doing, it helps

Derek Barry · « **Reply #28 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:55:39 PM »

I think that most people are unaware of what the "off hand" is doing when they fly. I think that the top fliers know this and that is why you see their hand on there chest, at lest you know where it is then. Many people have told me that I look "so relaxed" when I fly because I put my hand in my pocket, but the reality is that that is the only way I can keep it still.

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #29 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:23:27 PM »

Ok so much for Joe.
I have developed a habit of turning the handle horizontal when the airplane is inverted, fist down. It was pointed out to me as not a particularly good habit as it is unnecessary hand motion. I was trying to break that habit this week. It resulted in my vector vert stab being reduced an inch or so shorter than when I started. Habits are hard to break.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #30 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:29:22 PM »

When I'm inverted, I turn my hand to look like it is in a punch mode, and while I'm inverted, I stand almost 90 degrees to the plane and I'm looking straight down the lines to the plane. Grandpa pointed this out and he said it reminded him of Gene Schaffer.

For an official flight, I really work up a sweat if I intend to put in a good pattern, and I mean a sweat, shows that I'm serious about what I'm doing.

Author Topic: Body language and the "dead" hand (Read 5792 times)

Alan Hahn

Bruce Shipp