Big Jim's plane, was it the first one?

[Doug Moon]

I have looked over the picture of Jim holding his plane many times today. Besides the happy guy in the picture I cant help but notice a few things about the model. And they are very familiar.

First I want to say I have never looked at a Pattern Master plan.

The picture was taken in 1975. But the plane, from what I have been told was designed in 1971.

Notice a few things and tell me they arent everywhere you look today in the modern American Stunter.

Fairly high aspect ratio.
Thick Airfoil
Blunted LE
Longer TM
Large tail section with a 50/50 split. That is everywhere you look today. All we see is 25% tail sections for aft CG feel in the winds.

Did Jim find this out back in 1971? It sure is a far cry from the classic planes from just s few years before.

Someone with the history let us know how it went.

Look at my plane. Having never even seen a Pattern Master plan it sure looks similar and it was designed 30 years later and I thought it was pretty cutting edge.  (I must say I did not design my plane, I cant take credit for that, those stablets will tell you who this one belongs too)  Coming into stunt in 1994 I was way behind on the design history of the event.

[Peter Nevai]

Doug,

I think that many will agree that the Pattern Master design is what deliniated the era of classic to Modern designs. Like the Nobler in some ways the much of the CLPA design philosophy went in a new direction up to where we are today. Jim's revolution, happened almost silently by comparison, perhaps because Big Jim never embraced the national competition circuit. So his achievements are in many ways are more note worthy. A gentleman behind the scenes, quietly doing his own thing that ultimately shaped CLPA into what it is today.

I liked Jim, more for the things he wasn't than for for what he was. Modest, Funny, Helpful, completely lacking the braggado, pomp and circumstance that so many in this activity possess. It has been many years since I've been to FMP or talked to Jim but, just knowing that he is no longer out there saddens me more than I could say.

[Bradley Walker]

I think there is lots of evidence to show that Big Jim's plane was copied from coast to coast.

Jim was responsible for the following:

1.  He was father of the modern stunt design.  His designs, which go back to 1970, were the basis for the high aspect ratio/large tail stunters of the 1970's.  Very little has changed since.  I do not think most even know where there own designs came from.  Big Jim was visited by Al Rabe and Ted Fancher back in the 1970's.  You might see some commonality there between what those designers produced in later years and what Jim was doing.
2.  He was responsible for pushing bullet proof control systems.  Something that is common place now.
3.  He truly understood the stunt run.  He has the "Big Jim" formula for compression and venturi that he applied to several style of engines.  the Chinese beat our butts for years flying Big Jim based engines.  The modern Doublestars and Retros are based on Big Jim style engines.
4.  Big Jim did not "guess" he engineered.

From the online biography of Jimmy Casale written by Bob Hunt:

"Hailing from Paterson, New Jersey, Jimmy started flying in 1975 with friends Lou Dudka, Bill
Simons and Bob Hunt. His first contest was in June 1976. His first Nationals (Nats) was in
1978 in Lake Charles, Louisiana finishing 19th place with an early version of his Spectrum series.
This plane had the typical East Coast futuristic look along with a foam wing and a ST-46 engine.
Later he was to use the ST-40, the Max 45 FSR and the ST-60 engines."

Casale STARTED flying when that Big Jim picture was taken in 1975 with his 4 year old PM. Notice Bob Hunt called the PM look "typical". This look was indeed copied all over the world.

Brett likes to say stunt airplane design is “in the noise” and that we are arguing small differences like they are significant.  I tend to agree.
 
The way I see it, the median point for the “noise” for the 1960’s was a Nobler or Ares (large thin wing, LOW AR wing, small 18%ish tails, short tail moments, small engines, low power, etc). 
 
The center of the “noise” shifted in the early 1970’s to something totally different (high aspect ratio wings, fat airfoils, huge 25% plus tails, long tail moments, large engines, high power, etc).  The source was somewhere in New Jersey, and even as Bob Hunt said these new “foam clones” propagated across the world.  Take a look at the Genesis in 1978, it looks like a thin airfoil PM.
 
In no small part, it has not really shifted much from there still to this day. 
 
I think the PM (designed in 1971?) shifted the new center point of the noise, and it was just the beginning of a whole new type of approach (it was not the end, even to Jim) that led to tons of new designs from Simons, Hunt, Casale, etc that looked very similar.  You are talking about the “noise” as far as any significant changes that have been made since.  You can take a PM side view and lay it over a TP plan.  The only difference would be that the TP has a smaller root chord, and a larger stab chord.  All the other numbers are the same within fractions of an inch (nose moment, tail moment, total tail %, flap %, etc).  The TP has a smaller wing, which I agree with.  I told Jim the PM was too big for my car, he said “get a bigger car”.  Typical Jim!!!

Look at the PM compared to the 1978 Genesis:

[jose modesto]

Brad, Doug Peter. I would like to give my story of my and Milton Graham meeting with Big Jim Greenaway.
In the summer of 1970 Milton and I rode our bikes to Flushing Meadows Park this ride was about 5 miles each way from our house. Milton and I were upset at our late arrival can’t remember if it was my fault or his (since this is my story he was the one that was late) Knowing the flushing flyers and the stunt Gods of our youth our late arrival meant that Bob Lampione,Gene Schafer.Vic Macaluso etc. Our stunt heroes probably were gone or about to leave.
 My best recollection is that we got there about 11:30 AM or 12:00 Noon.
 Gene and Bob were about to leave Milton and I were very disappointed in our late arrival as both of us were not allowed to travel that far from home and out of shouting distance from our parents. (I was 13 and Milton 14) At around 12:30 a very large Black man enters the gate to the field followed by a second fellow with tattoos. The large man is carrying a profile model of a highly modified Sig Banshee the models was PINK.
 As Milton and I (more Milton) approached the large man He began to laugh at something his friend had sed, this stopped me but Milton proceeded to engage Big Jim In general modeling talk.
From that date forward Milton and I felt a part of the stunt community at flushing Meadows Park. Up to this point our contest participation consisted of flying in the balloon bust (not really as the pull tester enjoyed yanking out our bellcranks) being the only kids that looked like us at flushing and having Big Jim as our ally we were finally able to participate in the Flushing scene.
 Let me tell you about the pink Banshee.
1)   54” span equal panels
2)   Half ribs to spar with vertical webbing between spars
3)   Adjustable Tip weight box and movable leadouts
4)   Flat wing tips
5)   8 1/4” nose
6)   ¼” stab and elevator tapered to tips 261/2” span
7)   Diamond shaped Fuselage with the top and bottom end 1/8” thick
   Barn door flaps 2 ½” to 1 ¾”
9)   Motor Fox 35 running on missile mist fuel no muffler
10)    Custom landing gear 1/8” music wire eighth banner racing wheels
11)    Custom Big jim Tank
12)    Leading edge radius (NOT TO BLUNT JIM DID NOT LIKE TO BLUNT LEADING EDGE.)
 NOTE : you had to hear that Fox run it sounded like a formula one motor with about 10 different gears.  In the Horizontal square eight this motor changed speed for every leg.
 Big Jim first flight on the Banshee.(BTW the other flyer was Big Jims close friend RAY MOORE.) Big Jim firers up the Fox and proceeds to fly a very impressive pattern that looks like Gene Schafer. I had never seen a profile fly like a full bogie stunt plane. The engine quits and proceeds to wind fly. Lazy eights, inside loops ,outside loops, inside square and one triangle. Milton and I had seen Bob and Gene wind fly but not like this.
 A quick recap Jim and I spoke for hours at a time and on many occasions I would conduct interviews with him on the premise that I wanted to write the Pattern master story. Here is a list of his models.
1) 1971 first PM  63” span higher aspect ratio than the one in the picture
2) 1972 second PM 571/2”span 650 squares
3) 1973 third Pm 54” span
4) 1974 Current 60 size as you see in the photo
5) 1976 start of the LJ series SJ,LJ, BJ and the 900.
I had and agreement to kit the PM But stopped the project when the models became smaller.
 He and I worked on the 720 square inch PM . Some silly personal issues got in the way and I’m the looser by not speaking to him in his last year of his life for this I will be sorry for the rest of mine.
 More to come On my way to pay my respect.

[Randy Powell]

Jose,

Please post more. This is facinating stuff.

For myself, I always liked Big Jim's ideas. I've stolen many of them over time. 

[Peter Nevai]

Dang, now I am trying to remember if I remember Jose. Seem like we frequented FMP during the same era. I think I would have been a bit older as I had graduated HS in 73 and went to the field less often after that. And Jose remembers right, If you wanted to catch Bob, Gene and Bill you had to get there before noon. As the field filled up pretty quick after that. Imagine 4 full circles, and so many fliers that you might have to wait an hour or more before your turn came around again.

[jose modesto]

Yesterday evening I attended Big Jim Greenaway wake, for me it was tough as this is the same funeral home that my mom was in.
At the wake I met up with Bob Lampione,Mike Rogers,Jim Damarel, Mary Lee,Ray Moore JR. His mom, Hank forbes and his wife. After the wake we went to dinner and had a great time telling Big Jim stories.
  Back to Big Jim airplanes. I have Jim's LJ46 at my home this may be the only Big Jim built surviving plane as all the other models and engine collection were lost in the home fire.

 The first PM. At the time in the north east. 1970/71 the hot set up was the OSMax 35 Stunt as flown by Bob Lampione,Gene Schafer,Bill Simonds (the hardest corner man) Bob Hunt, Andy Lee etc.  The planes were 52" to 54" span 42 to 45 Oz foam wings by Bob Hunt these models were great for there time and also were flown generally early in the morning at Flushing park.

 The winds are usually light, in these conditions they were great.Big Jim being a fleet car mechanic who had to work on saturday mornings he dint arrive untill twelve or one in the afternoon wen the winds were usually blowing thus his plane took a different turn.
PM#1 63" spand 10" root cord 81/2" tip cord 3/4 flaps foam wing cut by Hunt from Jims templates (all other wings cut by Jim) the tail  3/8" wood equal split 60 OZ. K&B 40 The Plane was white with Red and Blue trim  the ink lines were done with a fine tip magic marker(they faded in the sun) with wing mounted gear. Jim 23% airfoil with out flaps. This model was not wind flown to often as it was to heavy . 91/2" nose 161/2"tail with his trade mark high stab and elevator placing. Jim beleived that the stab should be placed above the wings turbulent air in order for the plane to lock exiting a corner. all of Jims planes had a little down elevator at newtral in order to equal the turns.This model had the canopy placed obove the engine giving it a JET style popular in the day.
Big Jim was cheap wen it came to purchasing blocks this was the only model with a top block (3/4") His desigh philosophy was to put a great deal of fuselage side area in front of the high point of the wing in order to fly better vertical and overhead maneuvers
 Guys I have to go as his Mass is at 9AM saturday.

PS Bob L , Jim D, me and mike Rogers are flying Pattern Masters At the pal park contest this week end I have not flown a PM since early in the year and I should take a couple of practice flights with mine in order to make him proud. The irony of this is that a model desiged in 1977 is competitive in 2007.