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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Mark Scarborough on February 11, 2008, 10:10:06 PM

Title: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on February 11, 2008, 10:10:06 PM
well thought its about time for an update for those interested. I got the 109 in "humble coat" on sunday. looks pretty decent, a few areas needing attention but nothing major. Plan on letting it sit for a week or better before sanding begins in earnest. Jessica wants to get back to work on her Shark 402 that has been stalled with my airplane on the bench. I also attached a pict of the profile 109 I built last year but didnt finish as I decided to stay with monokote for the year. Those who know, know my history last year, so understand! It will be finished this spring for the upcoming season as well. Well back to cleaning the bench off, a 14 year old has NO patience... sheesh


The profile is based on the numbers and wing from the Brodak P-40, influence by Pat of course!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on February 11, 2008, 10:29:24 PM
Mark,

Where's Pullman?   LL~

Looks very good. In the scheme you have planed, it's going to be a killer.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: David Miller on February 11, 2008, 10:33:59 PM
Looking good Mark, now get busy helping that young lady!!! Seriously its good to hear that she is so excited. Has she mowed enough lawns to pay club dues yet? Ha-Ha. I bet we would all like to see some lawn mowing weather  so we could fly. LOL!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on February 11, 2008, 10:52:43 PM
Yes, weather, we have had plenty, consolation is that most of the snow has melted now, only abou 3 inchs left on the ground, except of course for the mounds of snow that were plowed off drives and such
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Terry Bolin on February 12, 2008, 07:33:02 AM
Looks good. keep those pictures commin'
Are you gonna use a 40?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on February 12, 2008, 08:38:00 AM
Terry, the profile will either get an LA 46 or my Saito 40a, havent decided yet, its got 580 insq. They built up has 647 insq and will use a SSW Magnum 53. Thanks for the comments all.
Randy, Pullman is where the COUGS live, you know the cats that rip the dawgs up? Go COugs
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on February 12, 2008, 05:27:20 PM
 Lookin' good Mark! Please keep us posted on the 402 also, that one is coming up soon on my own "to-do" list. y1
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 27, 2008, 07:18:04 PM
 What's the latest Mark?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 27, 2008, 11:11:18 PM
Well,
as the contest season approaches, I have had to set it aside for the time being. I needed to get my classic ship done. I have planes to fly in PA and profile, but no classic since I stuffed my Oriental last year in catastrophic fashion. The 109 is outgassing in its hanger while I work on my new Oreintal. Its about ready to cover so I will soon be back on my 109. It was getting to a point where I wanted to "get it done" and there are so many small details I want to do, exhaust stacks, supercharger intake, gun ports and the like, I decided I really needed to take a break from it. Thanks for asking I will keep you posted when I get back on it. it is haunting me on the paint stand right next to the bench so I really need to get back to it soon. Hows your project coming along?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Richard Grogan on March 27, 2008, 11:28:37 PM
The 109 is looking pretty good there, Uncle Mark! BTW... Hows that Ringmaster comming along?? LL~ Will we see you next month in Houston with Pat?
 ~~>
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 28, 2008, 07:44:13 AM
 Kind of the same for me on the PBY Mark, this thing is just KILLING me. It's like I've been working on it forever and it just won't end. With that, I have actually got it almost ready for paint though. I've just got to silkspan the engine nacelles, add some trim tab hard points, sand all the fillets just a bit and that's about it. Painting will be a chore though too, it'll be a relatively simple scheme (blue/grey circa 1941), but it's just a BIG awkward plane to work on with a lot of "nooks and crannies".

 Can't wait to see that 109!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 28, 2008, 08:11:19 AM
Richard,
well not likelyl to see me in Houston for the Ring Ding, Not in the cards money or time wise. I would love to but just not happening this time around. I will definetly be missing out on a good time.Maybe next year. Jessica is starting on her new Ringmaster +P this week probably, got the wings from Dee and the rest of the parts are on their way from Pat soon like maybe today.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Will Hinton on March 28, 2008, 08:19:46 AM
Hey Mark,
The break from the 109 is smart.  When I get in a hurry to finish one I don't have that kind of wisdom - I jump right in when a break might be the answer to doing a better job in the long run.  How long have I been doing this?  How long has it taken for me to wake up? Toooooooooo long!!!! n1 n1 n1 n1 n1
Blessings,
Will
By the way, loooooooooooooooooking gooooooooooood!!!!!!!! y1 y1 y1 #^ #^ #^ H^^ H^^ H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on March 28, 2008, 08:30:30 AM
Mark,

Looking at the calander, I suspect that the 109 will not be ready for Portland. Particularly with the paint scheme you are planning. But that's fine. Better for it to be right than right now. Much like my classic plane. It might be ready for Portland (with the simple scheme I'm planning) but I doubt it. And I won't rush it to get it done. Glad you aren't either.

My PA plane, that has been sitting in frame for something like 3 months while I messed with classic stuff, is just screaming at me to get on with it. The balsa is actually starting to darken a bit. Sheesh!

But I pulled it down and I think it might actually be a bit lighter   :D    Or not. But I hope to get some paint on it soon. At least the roof of the shop isn't leaking any more.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Leo Mehl on March 28, 2008, 10:27:12 AM
Mark, The leadouts are coming out the wong side? HB~> HB~> HB~> HB~>
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 21, 2011, 11:22:36 AM
Mark, leave it in primer and do not sand it. You will only find things that are wrong. Let my experience (ha) guide you.  Seems as soon as you sand off the primer/filler, all kinds of dings and things pop up.  LL~

Actually it looks great. Would love to see it live.
WELL I think the primer is finally gassed off LOL HB~>
After many things, I am back on this project finally. Ty, as you commented, I started sanding and low and behold, the joy I have,, I found a lot of things I didn't recall being an issue. But then I have built several planes since then and this beast was one of my first builds. So long story short, I got a bunch of sanding work done and making progress again finally.
I have figured out how I am replicating the exhaust stacks, ( ply parts cut by laser) pictures to follow.
It sure feels good to get back on this project again finally! There are a couple things that need work, the main one being the puncture in the covering that occured at some time,, possibly when a sleepover of teenage girls occured,, LOL
No matter,, Progress is underway!
Wayne,, keep prodding me,, I need to have it done before May!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on March 21, 2011, 11:56:09 AM
Hi Mark,

Any progress on the spinner?   That is a very prominent part of the "look".

Big Bear
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 21, 2011, 11:58:32 AM
Bill,
G-man is machining one for me. He had one done some time ago and it got lost in the mail.
Last I spoke to him, he is pretty close to having another one done, hopefully the post office will cooperate this time, or I may be forced to turn one and make a mold so I can fab them myself. I agree the spinner is a critical part of the look!
I may take the one G-man makes and pull a mold off it just because
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 21, 2011, 12:46:35 PM
 WHOAH! I about fell out of my chair when I noticed this post back up at the top here Mark! Are you back to work on it now? #^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 21, 2011, 12:50:46 PM
Well according to the sanding dust on the floor when I woke up this morning, and the used paper,, and the bare wood spots on the plane sitting on my bench, yeah I am back on it again,,
dont act so surprised,, its only been three years, I mean really,,  %^@
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 21, 2011, 01:00:09 PM
 Very cool and glad to hear it Mark, this will be a good one. y1
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Pat Johnston on March 22, 2011, 06:43:24 AM
A couple days ago I ripped out the exhaust stacks for Mark on the laser.  They are in the mail and he should get them pretty soon, so then you all can see them.  Mark is very good with ACAD and also knows how to set up things for the laser.  Not all should try this at home.  Mark's 109 will be fun.  I will be interested to see his posting on the exhaust stacks.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on March 22, 2011, 09:06:21 AM
Really Mark,  I know patience makes for master peices, but really three years?   And I thought I was slow.  But, I am getting old.    LL~ LL~ LL~
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 22, 2011, 09:52:56 AM
Really Mark,  I know patience makes for master peices, but really three years?   And I thought I was slow.  But, I am getting old.    LL~ LL~ LL~
Doc,, thanks SO SO much for the emotional support, your a real pal,,,,,,,, :'(
 LL~ LL~
LOL, actually this one got put aside because I was going through a bout of demolition, every contest it seemed was costing me an airplane ( something about being to aggresive and flying beyond my experience?) Now that I have gotten through that, I have the confidence to finish this beast. Of course there were a few other issues that came along too. But hey, you can join right in with Wayne since he likes to harrass me about this plane not being done yet,,,,,
I think it will be worth the wait though,, Its looking like it may just turn out to be pretty nice,, with any luck.
Even though I can see how far my building has come,, wow, I keep saying to myself,," did I really cover over THAT!" sigh
Pat helped me brainstorm a way to create the stacks, I was looking for alternatives to carving them from basswood or something. I think we hit on a pretty good solution, I cant wait to see the cut parts and play with them a bit. AS soon as I have them, I will show what we came up with.  D>K
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Shultzie on March 22, 2011, 10:10:37 AM
WOW MARK!
 AS USUAL....Your Beautiful CLPA ART at its finest and THANKS FOR SHARING THOSE PHOTOS!
UHH! I COULDN'T HELP BUT NOTICE THE  THAT OPEN DOOR IN THE PHOTO!
IS THAT YOUR  "PULLMAN SPRAY BOOTH?" LL~

The sad look on your little Doggie's wide eyed face...
"says--HEY DADDY..THIS ROOM STINKS LIKE POOPIE PAINT SPRAY!" AND CLOSE THAT DAMNED DOOR.

Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 22, 2011, 10:38:26 AM
Shutzie,,
only you! lol,, the puppies look actually says,, " are you playing with those stupid airplanes instead of me AGAIN!"
as for the open door, actually those pictures were taken in the spring, so it was merely fresh air for the house. While I do build in the house, I dont paint,, I am afraid Linda may have words about that. Well I dont count silkspan and dope as painting,,
I hope to have this one ready for the regionals, along with the Electrajet profile ,, time will tell, its been a long winter with little building time, but now I am feeling the MOJO workin again so just maybe,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on March 22, 2011, 03:23:17 PM
Just get into the zone, Mark. That would be the sanding zone.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on March 22, 2011, 03:47:53 PM
Hi Mark,

Looking forward to new progress shots. ;D

I remember back around 1972 when a buddy of mine built a Bf !09.  He was a huge Luftwaffe fan, everything was German it seems.  And he built a pretty nice model all the time.  He took a large plastic spinner, cut off the nose and epoxied a spent .22 cal. casing in the hole from the back side to simulate the cannon.  Looked awesome, really.

Big Bear
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 22, 2011, 04:40:26 PM
Just get into the zone, Mark. That would be the sanding zone.
yess,,,
the ZZZennnnn of sanding,,
It feels pretty good to get back to work on this one. I have been reading all my 109 literature for inspiration,, and its working!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Paul Walker on March 23, 2011, 02:08:18 PM
Mark,
Where are you putting the battery in the full fuselage version?

Paul
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: PerttiMe on March 23, 2011, 02:13:49 PM
You are not going to paint it in German colors, like everybody else, are you?

 n1

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=MT-507&distinct_entry=true
http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=225131&nseq=7

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=120D&distinct_entry=true

http://www.google.fi/search?q=avia+s-99&hl=fi&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=wlaKTbPMGdDssgbU5NmkDA&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1070&bih=607
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 23, 2011, 02:42:02 PM
Paul,
well ya see, its like this,,,, the battery for this one goes in the glow ignitor,, now the next one,, thats a different story. Had I built this two years ago instead of three, it would have been for epower,, but plans are already onboard for a cleaner version, ( assuming this one flies well enough which of course it should LOL)
PertiMe,,
its going to be camo, german, Not sure how many other 109 stunters there are,, lots of P-47, P-40, SPitfire, Mustangs and Bearcats,, not to many 109s,,, earlier on in the thread I posted a pic of the paint scheme I am using,, with a few tweaks.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: PerttiMe on March 23, 2011, 02:55:38 PM
not to many 109s,,, earlier on in the thread I posted a pic of the paint scheme I am using,, with a few tweaks.
Am I missing something? I cannot find a picture of a paint scheme.

... maybe I meant Bf 109 models in general, C/L and other.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 23, 2011, 03:28:06 PM
Whoops, it was in the other thread I guess

try this
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 23, 2011, 03:29:19 PM
I am taking some liberties with the paint scheme,, going to use the splinter pattern camo,, I cannot find reference to this camo scheme, so its going to get the red/yellow splash but on a splinter scheme
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Paul Walker on March 23, 2011, 03:47:08 PM
UHH! I COULDN'T HELP BUT NOTICE THE  THAT OPEN DOOR IN THE PHOTO!
IS THAT YOUR  "PULLMAN SPRAY BOOTH?" LL~




Hey Buster, enough of the Pullman jokes.  Soon you might be making Deer Park jokes!  And that would not be cool!

Hey, he can open the door now.  It's almost not freezing every night, and the daytime highs are in the 40's.  Down right tropical !

Paul
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Pat Johnston on March 23, 2011, 05:04:17 PM
Paul,
I have a Brother-in-law in Deer Park.  I might catch you there sometime.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 24, 2011, 01:04:09 PM
Well the parts for the exhaust stack got here last night, they turned out better than expected by far! Thanks Pat!!! H^^

Here is a picture of them, they are cut from 1/16" ply, there are three parts that make up the center core with another part that closes off the stack opening. Then there is a spacer outside that, then the "shields" that go outside that. also attached a snap of what the actual stack looks like. It looks like with minimal sanding to round the exterior, these will make a very presentable stack simulation,, I am jazzed up now!!!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on March 24, 2011, 01:14:16 PM
Those are way cool!  They should look great on the Bf 109!

Big Bear
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 24, 2011, 08:42:27 PM
 Purty fancy! They look a lot different than the ones that came in my Goldberg P-40.  ;D
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: PerttiMe on March 25, 2011, 01:27:55 AM
I hadn't realised there was a carrier version of the Bf 109. Or a carrier version built without carrier gear  y1

I was wondering about the exhaust stacks because the Bf 109 that I last saw up close had pretty rounded ones. But the one I saw was G series and the T-2 was an earlier model with more square exhausts.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 25, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
Actually there was a carrier version of the 109, there was a V tail version, and there was a twin fuse version similar toe the F-81 ( mustang)
The G model did have rounder stacks with less shielding than the E model. The E model had very squarish stacks. Of course this is a stunt model that I want to look like a 109, not a 109 that I want to look like a stunter so some compromise is being made to ensure the best compromise of looks without hopefully sacrificing flying performance.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Pat Johnston on March 25, 2011, 03:00:15 PM
Mark,
Are you thinking about using 1/32" plywood for the top and bottom covers?  If you made them a little shallower than the stacks, the stacks would stand out a little more and also provide a little buffer for the covers.
Pat
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 25, 2011, 03:03:04 PM
Pat,
I will most likely just use the 1/16 covers, but I have been thinking about trimming them back a bit to let the stacks stand proud just a touch. Its really hard to tell from the pictures exactly what is going on with the cover shields,, so I guess I will just use my artistical license and do what I want,,,,,
In the pictures that show it, the bottom stack appears to be much shorter and tapers away to virtually nothing towards the back,, or so it appears to me
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on March 27, 2011, 01:01:03 AM
OK, Guys!  Now, what's the chance for getting some of these stacks for a P-51?? ;D  (not everyone is building a BF-109. LL~ )

(I'm jealous, Mark. ;D )

Bill
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Steve Helmick on July 09, 2011, 09:47:42 PM
Just came across this old thread and thought I'd give it a bump. Can I fly your bf 109 at Fall Fallies, Mark?
 H^^ Steve
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on July 10, 2011, 07:14:23 AM
And I thought I was slow. LL~ LL~ LL~ How about some updates with pictures. H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on July 10, 2011, 10:33:21 AM
ok guys,
Doc, slow implies that work is going on, but at a slow pace,, so far work is stalled. my REAL work, the one that pays the bills is keeping me pretty busy for a bit longer. the current project is almost finished so that will cut me back to two projects at work.
Steve,, hey arent you keeping up, Randy is using my horizantal in the shoestring LOL,,

actually, I need to finish the new profile since the Gee Bee went to the great landfill in the sky,, it only needs hinges and gear installed, then back to the 109,, maybe a couple weeks, I really want to get the thing done, I am tired of it sitting there not getting worked on. Sheesh, and to think I used to wonder why the heck it took some people so long to finish a model LOL<,

and Steve,, just for the record,, whats the last thing YOU built,, let alone finished,,  LL~ S?P
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Pat Johnston on July 11, 2011, 12:34:28 PM
Yeah!  What Mark said!!!
Pat
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Russell Shaffer on July 11, 2011, 01:15:33 PM
Now that Steve has RETIRED I'm sure we will all be amazed at his building output. 
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on July 11, 2011, 02:01:58 PM
You guys are mean. Steve buys plenty of planes. And he flies them, too.    LL~
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on July 11, 2011, 02:26:15 PM
Randy,
hey at least I deflected the attention and harassment away from myself for a bit,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Steve Helmick on July 11, 2011, 02:38:12 PM
I have never taken as long to build a plane as Mark. But I will admit to be a slow starter... y1 Steve
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on July 11, 2011, 02:39:34 PM
Steve,,,
well played my good man, well played
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Scott B. Riese on July 11, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
OK....Four Stroke?!!? com-on
Mag 53....Please
LA-46....KISS
Three Years.....priceless

 >:D


Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on January 19, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
Ok just for Wayne,, cause I know he doesnt beleive me,,


here is proof,, the picture was taken today,,

Ok working on this again realyly shows me how far my building has come, there are some real ,, shall we say issues that I would have never covered today, but experience teaches,, so, maybe the next one will be better,
my goal is to finish and fly the thing with minimal fuss from this point,, and just live with some of the things,,
as Randy likes to say, a paint job is never finished, only abandoned,,

at least I am pretty sure it will be a reasonable weight,, and look good in pictures,, LOL
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on January 19, 2012, 10:05:46 AM
I used to have this problem in my job doing software.  I was doing embedded stuff, and doing it well because of my experience as a circuit designer even though I'm more than half self-taught with software.  So I'd pick up something I hadn't touched for a few years and my first thought would be "Who wrote this c**p?!?!?"

You just have to treat it like you were given the plane by a friend and decide how far back you need to go (and before you get into it -- Don't think you have to treat it like you were me and given a plane by a friend.  Or at least not that plane).
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on January 19, 2012, 10:35:59 AM
Mark,

Address the issues as best you can. You will be happier in the end. The thing will be a good flier with all the Pat Johnston influence running around.. Make it look pretty and use that cool paint scheme you came up with.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on January 19, 2012, 11:09:22 AM
@ Tim,,
no official comment,, though your perspective about treating it like someone gave it to me is valid,, however coming from YOU? LOL,,

@ Randy, I certainly wont be ignoring anything, but its one of those,, do I go backwards, or just live with it. Weight looks really decent,, so I dont want to compromise that,, and just between you and me,, the camo paint job will likely mask some of the things that are bothering me. I also think that if it isnt as nice as the avenger,, I will be a bit more brave with it LOL, in other words, maybe I can get below my 8 foot manuever ceiling LOL,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on January 19, 2012, 11:21:22 AM
I certainly wont be ignoring anything, but its one of those,, do I go backwards, or just live with it. Weight looks really decent,, so I dont want to compromise that,, and just between you and me,, the camo paint job will likely mask some of the things that are bothering me. I also think that if it isnt as nice as the avenger,, I will be a bit more brave with it LOL, in other words, maybe I can get below my 8 foot manuever ceiling LOL,,
Paint it International Orange and yellow.  Then every time you're in the downward leg of a square maneuver you can think about how much better it'd look in tiny little bits.  That'll help you get closer to the ground.

I tried this with a Nobler (dumb idea, to make a full-fuselage plane for my CL comeback -- it's hanging up, waiting for me to be a better flyer).  But I screwed up -- International Orange and black actually looks pretty good.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on January 19, 2012, 07:02:09 PM
Ok just for Wayne,, cause I know he doesnt beleive me,,


here is proof,, the picture was taken today,,

Ok working on this again realyly shows me how far my building has come, there are some real ,, shall we say issues that I would have never covered today, but experience teaches,, so, maybe the next one will be better,
my goal is to finish and fly the thing with minimal fuss from this point,, and just live with some of the things,,
as Randy likes to say, a paint job is never finished, only abandoned,,

at least I am pretty sure it will be a reasonable weight,, and look good in pictures,, LOL

 HOLY COW THERE IT IS!!! BW@

  Looks great from here Mark, keep on truckin'! I don't see a date on the photo, but I'll take your word for it...this time. :##
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on January 20, 2012, 05:56:30 AM
WHAT!!  An upstanding young man like Mark and you doubt his word?   Looks good Mark and I will look forward to the results.   You will probably be done before I get my plane flying.   I keep getting distracted by other planes and family. H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Dennis Adamisin on January 20, 2012, 07:20:02 AM
Don't stop now!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on January 20, 2012, 11:54:13 AM
Mark,

Listen closely!  Hit it with another coat of primer, sand well, paint and fly!   6 months from now you will not notice any little flaws and you will have the plane trimmed pretty good.  A point to remember is that they are not all going to be 20 pointers.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on January 20, 2012, 12:00:59 PM
Mark,

Listen closely!  Hit it with another coat of primer, sand well, paint and fly!   6 months from now you will not notice any little flaws and you will have the plane trimmed pretty good.  A point to remember is that they are not all going to be 20 pointers.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

yeah but,, but,,, sigh, I know,, LOL
and I need to fly closer to the ground, maybe a less perfect paint job,, sigh
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on January 20, 2012, 12:11:30 PM
yeah but,, but,,, sigh, I know,, LOL
and I need to fly closer to the ground, maybe a less perfect paint job,, sigh

HI Mark,

I know you are a professional painter so "flaws" are not in your vocabulary.  Still, this one can get a pass on that.  It's been around to long getting finished. ;D

Build a "throw away" profile now.  A Flite Steak, Sky Ray, Tomahawk, something along those lines, or draw up your own, and work on getting the bottoms down.  Derek also told me that lowering the "tops" to 45* helps get the bottoms down.  You can do it, you just have to "experience" it.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on January 20, 2012, 12:32:07 PM
Hey, Mark gets his bottoms down sometimes. It's just the hop at the bottom as he realizes where the ground is that needs work.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on January 20, 2012, 01:00:03 PM
Hey when I flew Steve's Kiss twister, I didnt bounce my bottoms nearly as much, do you think that could be cause it was HIS airplane,instead of the Avenger? lol
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on January 20, 2012, 01:03:32 PM
Hey when I flew Steve's Kiss twister, I didnt bounce my bottoms nearly as much, do you think that could be cause it was HIS airplane,instead of the Avenger? lol
As I am sure you have been told, flying a gorgeous model like your avenger is NOT the way to learn bottoms and such. ;D

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on January 21, 2012, 11:23:35 AM
It does make a difference when flying a gorgeous plane that has hours in the construction and finish.   Flew what I thought was one of the best patterns I had ever flown with the Primary Force one year.   In fact a well known person that has judged at contests thought I had a great pattern.  Said they had never seen me fly that well.   I felt great myself after I had finished the clover and was waiting for fuel to run out.  Then I seen my score sheet.   That is when I said it aint worth the effort as the next round I did not hit any bottoms or inter sections.  In fact I was all over the place.  In fact the person that thought I had such a first round asked me what was wrong.  I told her I was just having fun and did not care about winning anymore.   Second round score was over a 100 points better than first.   

Now Mark since I hijacked your thread, I am waiting on pictures of where the plane is at in construction. H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on January 21, 2012, 01:00:34 PM
Mark,
  6 months from now you will not notice any little flaws and you will have the plane trimmed pretty good. 
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Bill,,Not true,, I still see the issues in my Avenger every time I fly it, or look at it,, I cant forget that stuff,,
HOWEVER, a few nice plaques for higher finishes in contests help one overlook them LOL,,

Some zen moments going on here today,, ( mostly cause I went out and looked at the snow in the driveway,, the sandpaper looks a lot more inviting,, )
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Richard Walbridge on January 22, 2012, 03:15:45 PM
Well the parts for the exhaust stack got here last night, they turned out better than expected by far! Thanks Pat!!! H^^

Here is a picture of them, they are cut from 1/16" ply, there are three parts that make up the center core with another part that closes off the stack opening. Then there is a spacer outside that, then the "shields" that go outside that. also attached a snap of what the actual stack looks like. It looks like with minimal sanding to round the exterior, these will make a very presentable stack simulation,, I am jazzed up now!!!
Not too bad there Mark!!  It makes me almost want to build another Spitfire so this central-cal bloke can get'cha with....Nice job so far!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on February 22, 2012, 11:39:58 PM
ok I am reviving this thread, mostly for WWarbird, Wayne,, here take this,, its almost sanded now,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Russell Shaffer on February 23, 2012, 08:50:21 AM
Nice hammer.  Do you knock off the high spots?  Give me some tips.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on February 23, 2012, 09:31:31 AM
It does make a difference when flying a gorgeous plane that has hours in the construction and finish.   Flew what I thought was one of the best patterns I had ever flown with the Primary Force one year.   In fact a well known person that has judged at contests thought I had a great pattern.  Said they had never seen me fly that well.   I felt great myself after I had finished the clover and was waiting for fuel to run out.  Then I seen my score sheet.   That is when I said it aint worth the effort as the next round I did not hit any bottoms or inter sections.  In fact I was all over the place.  In fact the person that thought I had such a first round asked me what was wrong.  I told her I was just having fun and did not care about winning anymore.   Second round score was over a 100 points better than first.   

Now Mark since I hijacked your thread, I am waiting on pictures of where the plane is at in construction. H^^

Hi Doc,

I have found it to be a two edged sword.  I can go out and just have fun, or I can really try to burn in a pattern.  Scores don't seem to differ much.  Sometimes higher, sometimes lower.  So I finally decided to just relax and have fun,

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on February 23, 2012, 11:01:56 PM
 Man that's a cool model, glad you're back on it Mark. y1
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on February 24, 2012, 08:29:11 AM
Hey Mark,  has the test flights been done yet???? LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~    Now don't let me rush you as Pat may get after me and the P-47.  Finally after numerous bottles of liquid,  I have a canopy that looks halfway decent. H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on February 24, 2012, 09:29:20 AM
Doc,
ya better behave,., I talk to Pat all the time, I may just let him know you are slackin on the P-47,,

lol
actually now I need to set it aside so I can get the Avenger ready for VSC, oh and I need to make a couple repairs to Jessicas Ringmaster since she is acting interested in flying again ( she is goiing to VSC with me ;)  )
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Howard Rush on February 24, 2012, 05:32:27 PM
Your 109 is at about the same stage as my new dog.  I know better than to post pictures, because people will drag them up three years from now and pester me about slow building.

I'm glad that Jessica is getting interested again.  We've missed her.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on February 24, 2012, 05:48:57 PM
Thanks Howard,,
I have no idea what makes you think the nice guys on here would harrass someone about taking to long to build a plane,, oh wait,, I forgot about Wayne and Randy,, never mind,,,,,,

Jessica is actually going to ride with me to VSC this year, hoping a week around all us strange people will further corrupt her,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on February 25, 2012, 08:17:40 AM
Hope to meet you two in a couple of weeks.   H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 18, 2013, 12:02:38 PM
Mark,
Where are you putting the battery in the full fuselage version?

Paul

well,, rather than start a new thread,, ( like the "warning" suggested, I elected to reserect this old one, mostly because of this post by Paul

my building schedule has been hampered by working out of town for 6 months,, remodeling the kitchen, repairing the deer inflicted damage on the daughters car, and then recovering from a bout of pnemonia,, so in order to have a new plane for this year, I took the 109 down, and started looking it over again,, ,,,
and debating,,
and measuring,
and decided that if I left it as a glow airframe, it would never get finished, ( I decided years ago that my PA program was going electric as soon as I quit crashing so dang often, which I have,, knock on wood) so ,,
long story short, I got out the dremel,, and sawdust happened,,

its going to fly this year,, as an electric, so,, sorry Wayne,, it had to happen
pictures to follow,, if you want to see what I did to hack this into an electric please let me know,, its ,, well, its not for the faint of heart LOL
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 18, 2013, 01:39:06 PM
pictures to follow,, if you want to see what I did to hack this into an electric please let me know,, its ,, well, its not for the faint of heart LOL

 Well Mark, let's check it out. Can't look any worse than boring a model full of lightening holes! ;D
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 18, 2013, 01:42:31 PM
Well Mark, let's check it out. Can't look any worse than boring a model full of lightening holes! ;D
funny you should mention that,, the first step



cutting out a bunch of wood,,,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 18, 2013, 01:50:51 PM
ok fine,,
let the carnage begin,,
I apologize in advance for not using planking,, or polyester resin,,
THe prime reason I am doing this, if I had not , it would have hung on the wall for a long time waiting,,
there is just to  many  practical reasons for me to use Epower,, most of which revolve around being able to actually practice,,
so, without further ado,,
let the carnage begin,,,,,
1 using dremel router bit, cut back the motor mount rails in the engine bay. ( Pat my front end is built just like you do yours,, )
2 after sanding everything as smooth as I could, I epoxied some carbon tow into the nose. The main reason I did this was because my doublers and the mount rails stop short of where the mount will eventually live, so the carbon ties all that together,, Note I inflated a balloon in the nose, and taped ablock into the balloon to force it into the corners. A trick I devised building my quickie fuel tank bays,, makes all the corners smooth and keeps things together,, think redneck vacuum baggin'
also, the spinner in this pict,, I may end up trying to find a spinner like this,, held on to backplate by two screws, and then cut the point off to replicate the 109 spinner which on some versions had a cannon through it. it would also let cooling air into the motor,,
3 showing carbon after balloon removed
4 showing fiewall/mount, 1/8 ply which I laminated with 3 layers of 2 oz cloth on each side to toughen it up
5 shows mount installed, I used the spinner backplate to set the depth and alignment of the motor mount in the fuse
6 the mount needs to be stable,, very very stable,, so this filler goes between the spinner ring and the mount to tie it all together, it has to clear the locater pins on the cowling,and also clear the mount screws . that accounts for the strange shape.
7 shows filler installed. Now I need to do some bracing behind the mount..

I am also seriously considering on THIS model using a rear bearing plate, since I cannot tie the mount plate in as effectivly as I would were this a dedicated electric model from the outset, I think it will help keep things together, Now to fine a flanged bearing that will fit the screw on prop adapter ( which fits the back end of the motor)
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 18, 2013, 01:51:41 PM
and second batch ,,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on March 18, 2013, 03:10:23 PM
Thats a very cool trick with the balloon....never would have thought of that!   H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on March 18, 2013, 03:21:06 PM
He's baaaackk!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 18, 2013, 05:13:39 PM
He's baaaackk!

 Well, if electrons are what it takes to get the 'ol 109 finished, so be it. Glad to see it back on the bench Mark! y1
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 18, 2013, 06:07:13 PM
I can't wait to see that in the air.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on March 18, 2013, 09:08:39 PM
An electrified 109. Maybe a little speaker and you can use recorded engine noises.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 18, 2013, 10:50:45 PM
I will just get my grandaughter to stand by the judges and make vroom vroom noises,, should be worth a few bonus points on the old score sheet too
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 18, 2013, 10:53:47 PM
Incidently, a bit of self promotion here,,
since this build has been a rather,, ahh,, prolonged one?

here are links to the other phases of the operation,,,, if you are so inclined,, ( preceded by the general topic of the thread)

inst panel
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=7403.0

pre-assembled for photo
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=7616.0

updates
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=7879.0

all in one peice
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=8144.0
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 18, 2013, 11:47:07 PM
An electrified 109. Maybe a little speaker and you can use recorded engine noises.

It should be a feature of the ESC.  Just get into CastleLink and select R-1800, O-290, Allison, Warner, etc., and get your engine sounds out to a connector that'll drive a speaker.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on March 19, 2013, 07:59:33 AM
Looking good Mark.   Guess like me it is keeping the mind off VSC.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 19, 2013, 05:27:57 PM
Hey when I flew Steve's Kiss twister, I didnt bounce my bottoms nearly as much, do you think that could be cause it was HIS airplane,instead of the Avenger? lol

Apparently, flying the "KISS!" got Tim's bottoms down. At least one of them, once upon a time.  VD~

I am still hoping that he learned to set the engine with the tacho every flight, because it matters. I'm not sure why different engines or setups are like that, but some need it, and some don't. I suspect it has something to do with marginal vs. abundance of "power".  :-\ Steve

PS: I think 'trim' has a lot to do with 'hip-hops' or "bouncing" the bottoms. Maybe more nose weight or different handle spacing?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 19, 2013, 05:31:57 PM
Apparently, flying the "KISS!" got Tim's bottoms down. At least one of them, once upon a time.  VD~

I am still hoping that he learned to set the engine with the tacho every flight, because it matters. I'm not sure why different engines or setups are like that, but some need it, and some don't. I suspect it has something to do with marginal vs. abundance of "power".  :-\ Steve

I learned it matters with the engine on the KISS, and the Tower 40 that I'm running now (on two different planes, by an odd circumstance).

I also learned that to trim an airplane so I like it I need to convince Steve Helmick that it belongs to him long enough for him to trim it, then take it back.  I just haven't figured out how to do that yet.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 19, 2013, 05:44:45 PM
I learned it matters with the engine on the KISS, and the Tower 40 that I'm running now (on two different planes, by an odd circumstance).

I also learned that to trim an airplane so I like it I need to convince Steve Helmick that it belongs to him long enough for him to trim it, then take it back.  I just haven't figured out how to do that yet.

It usually takes me a couple of years to get one trimmed right, Tim, and it doesn't seem to matter who I buy it from!  LL~ For example, at the end of last season, I came up with a much better propeller than my current ride arrived with, AND moved the CG forward with a 1 oz GP spinner weight. And of course, I flew the KISSer for years and trim was continually evolving, as I learned what I liked and wanted it to do differently.  

I was going to start a new plane today, but Mike called and needed me to 'launch' his new eProfile for a few flights. No purchase price was mentioned, thankfully.   H^^ Steve
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 19, 2013, 06:35:31 PM

I was going to start a new plane today, but Mike called and needed me to 'launch' his new eProfile for a few flights. No purchase price was mentioned, thankfully.   H^^ Steve

LOL,, that right there is priceless,,

oh wait,, I made a funny,,,,

as to trim and bouncing bottoms,, lord I could run with that,, but,,,
seriously, my Avenger and I bounce bottoms usually as a result of Mark saying,, "holy crap that was the ground get away from there!!!!" and then follows with a boing boing, flight plan,,
but its getting better,, I am not as nervous about it as I used to,, I just need a darn airplane I can fly locally,, off grass, so I can actually practice,, the 109 will hopefully fill that bill,,,

Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 19, 2013, 11:32:24 PM
"I just need a darn airplane I can fly locally,, off grass, so I can actually practice,, the 109 will hopefully fill that bill,,,"

Wouldn't one of those P-40 proviles (sic) work for that, especially if you convert it to a P-40E? P-40E, get it?

Sienna (sp?) looks well in that one picture. I'd like to get my ankles nipped again this season. I made good friends with a Jack Russell last year at Fall Fallies. A weiner dog should be easier! I'll put in an extra box of dog biscuits.  LL~ Steve

Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on March 20, 2013, 07:24:12 AM
Remember, larger than normal wheels when flying off grass. H^^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 20, 2013, 09:58:29 AM
"I just need a darn airplane I can fly locally,, off grass, so I can actually practice,, the 109 will hopefully fill that bill,,,"

Wouldn't one of those P-40 proviles (sic) work for that, especially if you convert it to a P-40E? P-40E, get it?

Sienna (sp?) looks well in that one picture. I'd like to get my ankles nipped again this season. I made good friends with a Jack Russell last year at Fall Fallies. A weiner dog should be easier! I'll put in an extra box of dog biscuits.  LL~ Steve


Steve, Sienna is not a fan of dog biscuits,, the Barristas at the coffee shops know her, they always give her a coffee lid with a healthy dollop of whip cream,,,,,

as to practicing,, I want an airplane I can practice with and fly contests with,, so it needs to be appropriate,, though I have a couple profiles I am looking at converting,,

P-40E,,, funny funny,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 26, 2013, 11:41:36 AM
well progress has been made,,
heres a couple snaps of the exhaust stacks, the blower "intake" and the cooling air exit on the belly,,

not much beyond that,,
I got the exhaust stacks done, well built and finished,,(I posted pictures of the parts earlier in the thread, they were drawn in CAD and then laser cut) they did not line up perfectly since I assume the wood density varied slightly in the ply, and so they were all just a tick different when I stacked the parts. Sanding between each of the stacks was difficult at best so I did what I could, then I mixed a batch of finishing epoxy with micro-balloons,, a very runny mixture,, and brushed a light coat on top of each stack,, then sanded them to even out the surface of the stack. assembled the rest of the parts, and then after some sanding, ( ply sands hard just for the record) I coated them with a light coat of finish epoxy to seal the grain . Now to attach them to the nose,,
the other part is the simulated blower intake. regrettably for it to look right, it is to far back on the fuse to act as a cooling intake, on this model anyway, on future versions it could prove to be useful
It is also a trick to size things so that they remain proportional enough to capture the feel of the prototype,, the exhaust stacks are longer and wider,, slightly,, but the blower intake is actually skinnier, and shorter or it looked strange,,

I also had to close off the openings for the muffler exit, the engine head, and a couple other little openings,, (these were all done with balsa plugs sanded to fit the opening)
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Avaiojet on March 26, 2013, 12:29:45 PM
Mark,

Your 109 is shapping up good. Really good!

OK, Epoxy hides grain forever without silk or glass cloth?

Ya gotta love those Warbird detail extras. Tedious but fun and you can't beat the looks.

Did you mention the span of this model?

Can't wait to see your 109 detailed and finished.

Got a scheme picked out?

Charles
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 26, 2013, 12:46:37 PM
Mark,
Your 109 is shapping up good. Really good!
thank you,, its been a work in progress

OK, Epoxy hides grain forever without silk or glass cloth?
no it does not, it provides a base which will not shrink into the grain onto which you can prime or otherwise fill the grain. and the blower inlet scoop has a layer of .5 ounce cloth on it since its balsa. The ply for the stacks has only epoxy,

Ya gotta love those Warbird detail extras. Tedious but fun and you can't beat the looks.
well if you note, there are a LOT of details I am not including, this is a precision aerobatics model which is trying to look like a bf 109 so details are not the focus. I am providing enough details to "sell " the design and no more. The air cooler scoops on the bottom of the wings, not included, the wheel tubs on top of the wings, not provided, ( they would corropt the airflow and function of the wing compromising the performance goal) the gun troughs in the top of the nose not provided( they would weaken a critical load carrying portion of the nose) The gun breech blisters not included ( weight) its a balancing act, all of it is but the GOAL is for this airframe to perform first, and look cool second

Did you mention the span of this model?
yes I did

Can't wait to see your 109 detailed and finished.
Got a scheme picked out?
Charles
thanks again, and yes I did, if you look earlier in this thread,, like 10 or 15 posts up, I included links for the other threads which make up this build. They will have additional information about the models initial concept and construction.
It has been re-engineered to be powered by electric now
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on March 26, 2013, 08:49:05 PM

 Lookin' good Mark!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on March 27, 2013, 08:05:43 AM
Hey, you are making progress.   It's looking good.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 04, 2013, 09:24:04 PM

 What's new Mark?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 05, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
well a myriad of small things, more sanding,, more bitching to my self about things I did 5 years ago,,, and mostly fidgity work on re-engineering the structure in the nose for airflow and durability. Rebuilding the cowling to fill in the various openings, Oh and the grandkids have been here since last friday,, ( two month old, and 5 year old) I plan  to be painting next week. I have the week off so assuming I can complete the last of the details, I will be painting very very soon...

I am still deciding on some stuff about the paint,, I am leaning towards a blend of camo schemes to enhance the aesthetics,, especially since a lot of the RM feild directives were kind of randomly applied depending upon what the mechanics had available. at least thats what me reading has seemed to reveal. I posted the individual scheme for Cristman's airplane some time ago,( it had the red swoosh down the nose) I think that will be an element,, I am taking a certain license with it since I need to be able to see it clearly to fly an effective pattern. It is after all a stunter first,,
so that said, some decisions will be made to promote better visibility..

so after all that,, thanks for asking,, but most of what has been going on has been the boring stuff. I will post some pictures of where I ended up with the battery tray and such tomorrow. Its going to be pretty sweet to finally blast some color on it,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 05, 2013, 10:03:43 PM
Its going to be pretty sweet to finally blast some color on it,,

 I'll say! ;D
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 07, 2013, 11:16:51 AM
Well more puttering work done,, did a fair amount of sanding on the primer,, and got the motor battery bay rigged out . Its going to be tight, and awkward but it should all fit ok with sufficient airflow,,,,,,,
I think
anyway, you can see I added a couple basswood rails to bridge across the nose where the maple mounts stop ( which were machined ? down to 1/8" to allow more room. They tie in the mount firewall so its locked in place pretty well. The bowtie bridges will have velcro straps through the slots to hold the battery and the ESC and Timer will ive under the bowties.
Its almost ready for paint.
Today I need to finish the repairs to the muffler cutout on the fuse sides,, and more finish sanding on the cowling.
I refit the cowling since over time it had changed shapes slightly ( which is the risk of a resin cowling not kept on the airframe)
as you can see it fits pretty nice now. In fact the closure gap is so tight I will need to remove it when I clear the airframe or it may glue it shut...
anyway,, thats progress so far
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 07, 2013, 03:24:57 PM

 Cool. y1
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 10, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Well, here is where the 109 stands now
I have a bit of fidgety sanding to do and its off to the paint shop... Al has the shop tied up till Thursday night so I will probably not get started until friday morning,, unless I sneak down and spray the basecoat on thursday night. I have elected not to do wheel well covers ( at this time) They will come in the near future. in order to get the airframe painted, I want to make sure I have time while the window is open.
Today will be sanding the last bits . I am not very happy about the lift struts on the horizontal, but I elected to just use a carbon tube instead of making an airfoiled strut, due to weight on the tail.
as it stands in the pictures, it weighs 38.5 ounces, the powertrain is approximatly 22 ounces ( 24 depending upon which battery I end up using, one is heavier but would provide more nose weight) That puts me at 60 ounces ready to fly with no paint.
If I can keep color and clear around 3 or 4 ounces I should be golden, assuming I dont need to add ballast, **please please no,,* HB~>
more progress to follow,,

The biggest debate now is,, do I spray it with gloss clear, or semi-gloss,, Knowing all the history with semi scale airplanes and appearance points,, it makes one hesitant,,,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on April 10, 2013, 11:13:44 AM
Beautiful!!!!!!

Marcus
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 10, 2013, 11:22:55 AM
Knowing all the history with semi scale airplanes and appearance points,, it makes one hesitant,,,,

Without wanting to derail your thread -- what's the scoop?  Is it a "can't win" sort of thing where half the judges grade you down for high gloss, while the other half grade you down for flat colors and realistic weathering?

Unfortunately there's probably not any airshow versions of the BF-109 out there -- if there were you'd have an excuse for gloss, and a flashy color scheme ready made, to boot.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 10, 2013, 11:38:29 AM
Thanks for the comments guys,,

Tim, mostly the deal is, back some years ago, Ron Burn did a Wildcat that would have won a scale contest, and recieved virtually no appearance points cause it was not shiney,, ( basically)

There are advantages to both,, gloss, if you get an anomoly in the clear, you can sand and polish it out,,, locally in just the spot,, with a semi gloss you dont have that option, in fact its virtually impossible to spot repair a semi gloss finish,, but it looks a lot more scale-ish,,

I think I can put a lighter clear coat on with semigloss,, but it would not be by much,, maybe half an ounce or so,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: proparc on April 10, 2013, 12:24:59 PM
Thanks for the comments guys,,

Tim, mostly the deal is, back some years ago, Ron Burn did a Wildcat that would have won a scale contest, and recieved virtually no appearance points cause it was not shiney,, ( basically)


I took a bunch of pictures of Ron Burns Wildcat at a contest in California some years back. Fantastic building. That is the way REAL Warbirds actually look. All it was lacking was bullet holes!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on April 10, 2013, 01:23:57 PM
I think you should do the gear doors. But that's just me.   ;D
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 10, 2013, 01:29:55 PM
I think you should door the gear doors. But that's just me.   ;D
I am going to,, its just a matter of making my window to use the shop to paint it, and my time off most effectivly, I dont have time to get them done and paint with the rest of the plane,, They are small enough I can paint them after the fact.
thanks for the input Randy,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 10, 2013, 01:41:26 PM
Y'know, a BF-109 in an all-camo trim with a mile-deep glossy clear coat wouldn't look at all bad.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: roger gebhart on April 10, 2013, 01:41:53 PM
Actually I think there are a few. CAF has one I'm pretty sure. Most likely built in spain but a 109 none the less

Quote didn't show but I'm talking about 109's on the airshow circuit.  Don't know if they are glossy or not.  I bet they are for ease of cleaning etc.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on April 10, 2013, 05:06:29 PM
Hi Mark,

Looks really good!  I am sure it will come out as a great looking model.

How big (WS, Sq. In. ??) is it?

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 10, 2013, 06:19:42 PM
Thanks BIll,
its right at 640 square inches, the TVC ( if I recall, its been awhile) is right around .500 give or take. originally it was going to have a Magnum .53,, but,, well as these things go, I converted it to an electron burner,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on April 11, 2013, 05:43:07 AM
I remember seeing a ME/BF 109 at an air show at Olathe NAS years ago.   After flying in they discovered the spar was cracked and were going to disassemble the plane for trucking back to its base.   It was typical to me for a real war bird finish.  Not enough shine to blind you in the sun, but dull enough that you didn't worry if someone touched it.   
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 11, 2013, 04:29:36 PM

 If it was mine I'd go with a satin type of finish, but for your purposes Mark you'd better go gloss.

 When it comes to appearance judging it's something that shouldn't be an issue, especially with a semi-scale Warbird model, but if you want max appearance points you better go shiny. Judges (IMO) should be looking at the quality of the overall build and finish, the type of finish should make no difference, whether it be flat, satin, or glossy.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 12, 2013, 02:11:26 PM
well,, off we go,, the shop is empty,, the sanding has been declared final,, the colors are mixed,, the paint stand created,, the spray guns located,, all that remains is lunch,, and then painting.... after first coats, then I will cut the masks for insignia,, pictures to follow,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 12, 2013, 07:52:18 PM
well,, off we go,, the shop is empty,, the sanding has been declared final,, the colors are mixed,, the paint stand created,, the spray guns located,, all that remains is lunch,, and then painting.... after first coats, then I will cut the masks for insignia,, pictures to follow,,
o2oP o2oP o2oP ;D
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on April 12, 2013, 08:03:48 PM
well,, off we go,, the shop is empty,, the sanding has been declared final,, the colors are mixed,, the paint stand created,, the spray guns located,, all that remains is lunch,, and then painting.... after first coats, then I will cut the masks for insignia,, pictures to follow,,

Looking forward to them...

Marcus
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 12, 2013, 08:49:43 PM
teaser alert,, just the white,,,,

just sprayed the white for under the insignia,, since it will remain masked for a goodly period of time, I will let it sit overnight,, maybe,,,, while I cut the masks,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 12, 2013, 09:34:33 PM

 Hey Mark, don't rush it. LL~ ;D
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Andrew Borgogna on April 12, 2013, 10:02:33 PM
Painting a war bird can be problematic for control line stunt.  I had a friend several years ago who painted his war bird to look authentic.  Flat finish scratch marks, black gun powder markings around the guns.  In my eyes it looked fantastic, but to the mirror finish, mile deep paint job guys it was terrible.  His appearance points always suffered because it didn't live up to the idea of what a beautiful plane should look like.  It really hurt the guys feelings, he spent a great deal of time trying to get an authentic WWII fighter finish and he got hammered for his effort.  It left a lasting memory on me.
Andy
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 13, 2013, 11:22:19 PM
well after today,, its going ok.

the insignia is there masked up, tomorrow unmask and spray the black, then the rest of the markings,, then,, satin or gloss,,,,,,, sigh, still not sure
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on April 14, 2013, 08:10:22 AM
Looking better.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Joe Just on April 14, 2013, 09:47:58 AM
Mark, looking to be one of your best!
Joe
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Balsa Butcher on April 14, 2013, 10:14:27 AM
I like it Mark, the details you added in really make it stand out. Keep going and "git 'er dun!"  8)
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on April 14, 2013, 11:41:31 AM
Should be very cool, Mark. I like it a lot.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 14, 2013, 02:28:38 PM
well,,, afternoon break for lunch
I wish I would have built this now instead of way back,, it would have been alot better,, alas, it is what it is,,

thanks for the positive comments guys
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Will Hinton on April 14, 2013, 03:08:36 PM
I think it looks fabulous, Mark.  For me, the term, "semi-scale" gives us license to make the beast as shiny as we want!  The key word is "semi" is it not?
Whichever way you end up, you have a great looking stunt ship there! #^ #^ #^
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on April 14, 2013, 05:16:48 PM
Hi Mark,

I like it!  Did you find a proper spinner?  Also, what type and brand of paint are you using?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 14, 2013, 07:52:34 PM

 Looking awesome Mark, all paint is way cool. y1

 Can we get some step-by-step shots of how you align and use the graphic masks? The necessary exact alignment is what I have always wondered about.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 14, 2013, 11:32:37 PM
Guys ,, thanks for all the supportive comments,, I promise I will answer them tomorrow,,
I just finished shooting the clear. its late, I am tired, I have a mentor report to finish for a young man who is trying to graduate,,,

so for now,, I will leave you with this pict of the nose,, color scheme in place, panel lines in place,, pre clear

First blush says I used about 2 oz to complete the color scheme.

I will know later about the clear,, its a bit hard to weigh it when it keeps sticking to the scale,, LOL
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 14, 2013, 11:38:31 PM
That's looking way cool.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Steve Helmick on April 14, 2013, 11:41:46 PM
I guess I'll have to be satisfied with only one flame per side.  I'll look forward to seeing it in Eugene!  H^^ Steve
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 15, 2013, 11:28:00 AM

 WOW-VERY COOL! y1 y1 y1
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 11:38:16 AM
WOW-VERY COOL! y1 y1 y1
and you thought it would never get done ha!! guess I showed you huh,,,

yeah ok so it took a few years,,

thanks
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 15, 2013, 03:40:51 PM
 That's why I've kept on ya about it Mark, I knew that you'd do an awesome job on it. It's got a real nice "scale" look with just enough small details added.

 The only thing it's going to be missing is oil running down the belly! VD~
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on April 15, 2013, 04:22:31 PM
I like the paint scheme.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 05:02:34 PM
That's why I've kept on ya about it Mark, I knew that you'd do an awesome job on it. It's got a real nice "scale" look with just enough small details added.

 The only thing it's going to be missing is oil running down the belly! VD~
well Wayne, for you I will take a picture of it with a stream of oil on the belly,, but with my recent dietary constraints, all I have is virgin olive oil,, hope thats ok ;)
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Jim Kraft on April 15, 2013, 05:20:58 PM
Looks fabulous Mark. It represents the 109 very well and has the evil look from the original.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 06:57:57 PM
I mentioned the canopy,, or was that on facebook?
anyway, I made one mistake there, I sanded it with 400 before I cleared it instead of using 600,,, so it has a bit of haze to it,, but,, I will live with,,, initial measurements,, color and clear added about 3 ounces,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 15, 2013, 08:18:57 PM

 The foggy glass is probably scale accurate. ;D

 This has to be the fastest paint job of it's type I've seen, way cool Mark!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 08:29:08 PM
yeah Wayne, thats going to be my story too, I know it plastic models,, when you REALLY want it to look right, you spray a very very light coat of clear with a couple drops of grey in it,, it simulates looking through all the air molecules, smoke and haze in the atmosphere,, so yeah, it was uh,,, deliberate LOL

as to speed,, you obviously not counting the amount of time planning before picking up a spray gun,,,, I plan on going back and calculating the hours of painting time involved,, but I estimate from spraying the first coat of white,, to the coat of clear,, I have probably 14 or 15 hours masking, painting, ect,, over two days,,( ok well I sprayed the first coat of white friday night)

the biggest reason is planning,, and product,, to answer that question,, It is PPG basecoat,, and two part clear,,

Wayne you asked about the insignia,, there is no careful registration aside from placing the mask,,

again, sequence,, spray white where insignia and yellow goes,, the mask covers the area of the insignia,, it is cut already for the black and white separation,, after spraying all of the colors,, I remove the portion of the mask which is ultimately going to be black,, this then leaves one to mask across the ends of the cross,, and basically mask the perimeter,, this takes some care, good clean glasses,, and lots of light,, so not registration of multiple masks, its already there ,,plus it removes the need for many many coats of white if you spray it after the fact,, by the way, the camo soft edge is not masked,, just sprayed freehand,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mike Keville on April 15, 2013, 08:32:05 PM
Magnificent work, Mark!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 15, 2013, 09:23:43 PM

 Yes I agree Mark, to do it "right" there is usually a bunch of time in planning a paint scheme. The '109 still seems like it went pretty quickly, using the masks as you describe definitely helps speed up the overall process. Your dry times must be pretty quick too. Even using dope I always wait at least 24 hours after spraying before getting anywhere near the model with masking products. It's probably time for me to start considering using masks and spraying instead of my usual vinyl graphics and insignias. Doing so would save a hint of weight too.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on April 15, 2013, 09:36:37 PM
Awesome work, Mark. Looks good.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 09:51:39 PM
Yes I agree Mark, to do it "right" there is usually a bunch of time in planning a paint scheme. The '109 still seems like it went pretty quickly, using the masks as you describe definitely helps speed up the overall process. Your dry times must be pretty quick too. Even using dope I always wait at least 24 hours after spraying before getting anywhere near the model with masking products. It's probably time for me to start considering using masks and spraying instead of my usual vinyl graphics and insignias. Doing so would save a hint of weight too.
The material I use,, automotive basecoat, dries for masking in about 30 to 45 minutes,, of course as the coats build up, dry times do increase.
that is why I sprayed the white underpaint for the crosses the night before, the masks were going to be on the surface for at least 24 hours.
on a warm day, ( it was 50 all weekend) so say a 70 degree day, you can mask over it in less than an hour reliably,, with no tape tracking. I generally pull masking within 15 mintues of spraying,, so the normal thing is to mask, spray a color,, clean the gun, store the extra paint in its container,, wash my hands walk around the building once, then lift the masking,, wait 30 minutes, and mask the next color,, I weighed,, from bare primer to finished clear-coat,, I added 3.2 ounces total.

this includes the fact that the custom mix for the dark green ended up being fairly transparant so it required several coats. The blue was a one coat , the tan about a coat and a half,, and the black, because of spraying over masking and all, I built up very slowly in several very light coats. This helps bridge any gaps in the masking to minimize bleeding
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 09:54:00 PM
by the way,,( or is that by the weigh,, )
I weighed it with all the flaps, cowlings, gear and all,, sitting on its wheels with everything minus drivetrain,, its 41.2 ounces,, so it should fly at about 63 or 64 ounces,, this would equate to  a glow airplane that weighs about 55 ounces ( minus fuel of course)
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 15, 2013, 10:25:23 PM
by the way,,( or is that by the weigh,, )
I weighed it with all the flaps, cowlings, gear and all,, sitting on its wheels with everything minus drivetrain,, its 41.2 ounces,, so it should fly at about 63 or 64 ounces,, this would equate to  a glow airplane that weighs about 55 ounces ( minus fuel of course)

 Thanks for the paint info Mark. y1

 So, are you saying above that your equivalent 55 ounce glow plane would be launched carrying 8 or 9 ounces (in weight) of fuel?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 11:11:58 PM
Well, these are off the cuff estimates,only to be taken with a grain of skepticism,, but they are diagrammatic of the comparison.

 as I recall,, the Magnum I intended to use weighed 10.9 ounces +1.2 ounces muffler+ 3 oz for a tank and plumbing=15.2 ounces with no fuel, I burn 6 fluid ounces roughly...

my current powertrain is 7 for the motor+14 batteries+3 for ESC  and timer=24 ounces
there is about 9 ounces difference.
they both use props and spinners, though the electric may shave an ounce or so.
lets say that for argument purposes I am being biased by a bit and call the difference 8 ounces after the scratching and clawing ,,,, It is looking like I will end up around 65 ounces all up, tip weight and all,, ( assuming I am able to alter the CG without adding significant weight.. if you subtract that 8 ounces from my 65 ounce electric, you would be at 57 ounces prior to fueling,, which is how glow airplane weights are typically related,,

NOW if any of this sounds like I REALLY know what I am doing,, then please,, your mileage may vary,, ( and my opinion will surely be corrected somewhere down the road,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 11:14:13 PM
ah crap,,, I just realized I changed numbers in my illustration example and my first really off handed comment ( 55 ounces,,,,) well lets blame it on paint fumes and not paying attention,,
or you can just say I actually spent more than one brain cell to think about it,,
I stand with my secondary  commentary,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: RC Storick on April 15, 2013, 11:20:30 PM
Great finish! I hope mine comes out that good.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 11:26:58 PM
Yes I agree Mark, to do it "right" there is usually a bunch of time in planning a paint scheme. The '109 still seems like it went pretty quickly, using the masks as you describe definitely helps speed up the overall process. Your dry times must be pretty quick too. Even using dope I always wait at least 24 hours after spraying before getting anywhere near the model with masking products. It's probably time for me to start considering using masks and spraying instead of my usual vinyl graphics and insignias. Doing so would save a hint of weight too.

Wayne,, enjoy the hobby at the level of expense and effort which brings the maximum pleasure for the minimum pain needed to get there,, financially or effort,, its all about enjoying,, if vinyl enables you to enjoy the hobby better,, because you can build more or whatever,, then go that way,, sometimes this painting thing is a chore LOL,, but I like it,

Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2013, 11:31:08 PM
Great finish! I hope mine comes out that good.

Thanks Robert, I appreciate the comment,, I think the finish is effective,, it masks some of the flaws,, pictures really do flatter it. Like you, I wanted it to be functional first,, and my Avenger is pretty,, but I need a better blend of utility,, hence, I elected to leave some of the localized issues rather than add weight,,, I am satisfied, i wont be ashamed to put it on the line for judging,, though a repeat of the Avenger finish,,,,that will come on my Crossfire derivative,, 
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Ryan on April 16, 2013, 05:50:22 AM
Spectacular!!!!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: john e. holliday on April 16, 2013, 08:27:41 AM
Hey Mark, if it looks half as good in person as it does in the pics, you have a winner.  I love it.    Now I would like to know how you can top your Avenger?    I know another VSC award plus winning. D>K
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on April 16, 2013, 03:55:50 PM
You need to start a new topic as it's no longer in prime.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 16, 2013, 03:58:45 PM
well that may be true,, but the primer is still there Randy,,

actually have been thinking of moving this or restrating this, in the amped up section,, ( since its electric now),, thanks for reminding me,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: RC Storick on April 16, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
I think I will box my beamer up and send it to him to finish. Nice work!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on April 16, 2013, 07:59:46 PM
Wayne,, enjoy the hobby at the level of expense and effort which brings the maximum pleasure for the minimum pain needed to get there,, financially or effort,, its all about enjoying,, if vinyl enables you to enjoy the hobby better,, because you can build more or whatever,, then go that way,, sometimes this painting thing is a chore LOL,, but I like it,



 Yeah, I'm with ya on all of that Mark. I'm not gonna kill myself to get there, but eventually I would like to work my way to "all paint" models. I actually like the painting process too, when everything goes right of course.

 Way back when I used to do a TON of plastic modeling, mostly 1/48th scale WWII aircraft with all the extra super-detailing and weathering etc. Even had a couple articles published in the old "Scale Modeler" magazine, (neither of which were good examples of my better efforts ;D). The plastic modeling was all good experience though, when you get into super-detailing it teaches you about the patience part of modeling. I became very familiar with that, I once spent about a month of evenings working on just the cockpit for a P-51B.

 Can't wait to see the '109 all assembled, (with gear doors) it looks awesome already. y1
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Bill Little on April 17, 2013, 05:05:18 PM
Hi Mark,

That is definitely one of the better looking C/L stunt Me-109s I have seen.  What kind/size spinner are you using?

Thanks!
Bill
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 17, 2013, 05:09:39 PM
Well Bill, first thanks,,

I know, like myself, you recognize the spinner as an important part of the look,,
I have a gentleman who is supposed to be turning an aluminum spinner for me,, with the correct shape,, so far this is the third person who said they could,,

for now I am using a great planes spinner that I am going to cut the end of the cone off,, two reasons, the first is the blunt look of the prototype spinner,, and secondly, it lets the air into the motor for cooling,

I had hoped to make Portland contest with this airplane this weekend,, but now work seems to have created a dilemma for me,, it remains to be seen if I can go,, and if I will have time to get this together,,

I do have to confess, the longer it sits on my bench, the happier I am,, at least with the LOOK of it,, it has some issues that annoy me finish wise,, but,, at least I wont be afraid to fly it that way,,
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on April 17, 2013, 05:30:41 PM
I'm lovin' it!!!

Marcus
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Randy Powell on April 17, 2013, 05:41:22 PM
Yea, some stuff has come up and I'm not at all sure I can make Portland this weekend. Things my clear up, but right now, it's not happening.

Just as well, I suppose. I can save my pennies so I can go to the Regionals next month.
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Rob Smith on April 17, 2013, 09:55:13 PM
Looks awesome buddy!
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 22, 2013, 10:58:03 PM
Thanks all,,
taking Randy's suggestion I am starting a new thread, its over on the amped up section

thanks for following along on this thread, see you over there where I will finish up the installation and minor additions,, like gear legs and wheel well covers


shortcut here
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=31263.0
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: wwwarbird on May 11, 2013, 09:32:08 PM

 Get those gear doors done and go flyin' yet Mark?
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Shultzie on May 17, 2013, 07:24:21 PM
MARK!
GIVE US THE WORD ON YOUR FIRST FLIGHTS WITH THIS BEAUTIFUL NEW RIDE that I saw on FARCEBOOK'  H^^ CLP**
Title: Re: bf 109 in prime
Post by: Mark Scarborough on May 17, 2013, 08:20:30 PM
Shutlzie,, its over on the other thread,, in the "amped up " section,,