bf 109 in prime

[john e. holliday]

Remember, larger than normal wheels when flying off grass.

[Mark Scarborough]

"I just need a darn airplane I can fly locally,, off grass, so I can actually practice,, the 109 will hopefully fill that bill,,,"

Wouldn't one of those P-40 proviles (sic) work for that, especially if you convert it to a P-40E? P-40E, get it?

Sienna (sp?) looks well in that one picture. I'd like to get my ankles nipped again this season. I made good friends with a Jack Russell last year at Fall Fallies. A weiner dog should be easier! I'll put in an extra box of dog biscuits.  Steve

Steve, Sienna is not a fan of dog biscuits,, the Barristas at the coffee shops know her, they always give her a coffee lid with a healthy dollop of whip cream,,,,,

as to practicing,, I want an airplane I can practice with and fly contests with,, so it needs to be appropriate,, though I have a couple profiles I am looking at converting,,

P-40E,,, funny funny,,

[Mark Scarborough]

well progress has been made,,
heres a couple snaps of the exhaust stacks, the blower "intake" and the cooling air exit on the belly,,

not much beyond that,,
I got the exhaust stacks done, well built and finished,,(I posted pictures of the parts earlier in the thread, they were drawn in CAD and then laser cut) they did not line up perfectly since I assume the wood density varied slightly in the ply, and so they were all just a tick different when I stacked the parts. Sanding between each of the stacks was difficult at best so I did what I could, then I mixed a batch of finishing epoxy with micro-balloons,, a very runny mixture,, and brushed a light coat on top of each stack,, then sanded them to even out the surface of the stack. assembled the rest of the parts, and then after some sanding, ( ply sands hard just for the record) I coated them with a light coat of finish epoxy to seal the grain . Now to attach them to the nose,,
the other part is the simulated blower intake. regrettably for it to look right, it is to far back on the fuse to act as a cooling intake, on this model anyway, on future versions it could prove to be useful
It is also a trick to size things so that they remain proportional enough to capture the feel of the prototype,, the exhaust stacks are longer and wider,, slightly,, but the blower intake is actually skinnier, and shorter or it looked strange,,

I also had to close off the openings for the muffler exit, the engine head, and a couple other little openings,, (these were all done with balsa plugs sanded to fit the opening)

[Avaiojet]

Mark,

Your 109 is shapping up good. Really good!

OK, Epoxy hides grain forever without silk or glass cloth?

Ya gotta love those Warbird detail extras. Tedious but fun and you can't beat the looks.

Did you mention the span of this model?

Can't wait to see your 109 detailed and finished.

Got a scheme picked out?

Charles

[Mark Scarborough]

Mark,
Your 109 is shapping up good. Really good!

thank you,, its been a work in progress

OK, Epoxy hides grain forever without silk or glass cloth?

no it does not, it provides a base which will not shrink into the grain onto which you can prime or otherwise fill the grain. and the blower inlet scoop has a layer of .5 ounce cloth on it since its balsa. The ply for the stacks has only epoxy,

Ya gotta love those Warbird detail extras. Tedious but fun and you can't beat the looks.

well if you note, there are a LOT of details I am not including, this is a precision aerobatics model which is trying to look like a bf 109 so details are not the focus. I am providing enough details to "sell " the design and no more. The air cooler scoops on the bottom of the wings, not included, the wheel tubs on top of the wings, not provided, ( they would corropt the airflow and function of the wing compromising the performance goal) the gun troughs in the top of the nose not provided( they would weaken a critical load carrying portion of the nose) The gun breech blisters not included ( weight) its a balancing act, all of it is but the GOAL is for this airframe to perform first, and look cool second

Did you mention the span of this model?

yes I did

Can't wait to see your 109 detailed and finished.
Got a scheme picked out?
Charles

thanks again, and yes I did, if you look earlier in this thread,, like 10 or 15 posts up, I included links for the other threads which make up this build. They will have additional information about the models initial concept and construction.
It has been re-engineered to be powered by electric now

[wwwarbird]

 Lookin' good Mark!

[john e. holliday]

Hey, you are making progress.   It's looking good.

[wwwarbird]

 What's new Mark?

[Mark Scarborough]

well a myriad of small things, more sanding,, more bitching to my self about things I did 5 years ago,,, and mostly fidgity work on re-engineering the structure in the nose for airflow and durability. Rebuilding the cowling to fill in the various openings, Oh and the grandkids have been here since last friday,, ( two month old, and 5 year old) I plan  to be painting next week. I have the week off so assuming I can complete the last of the details, I will be painting very very soon...

I am still deciding on some stuff about the paint,, I am leaning towards a blend of camo schemes to enhance the aesthetics,, especially since a lot of the RM feild directives were kind of randomly applied depending upon what the mechanics had available. at least thats what me reading has seemed to reveal. I posted the individual scheme for Cristman's airplane some time ago,( it had the red swoosh down the nose) I think that will be an element,, I am taking a certain license with it since I need to be able to see it clearly to fly an effective pattern. It is after all a stunter first,,
so that said, some decisions will be made to promote better visibility..

so after all that,, thanks for asking,, but most of what has been going on has been the boring stuff. I will post some pictures of where I ended up with the battery tray and such tomorrow. Its going to be pretty sweet to finally blast some color on it,,

[wwwarbird]

Its going to be pretty sweet to finally blast some color on it,,

 I'll say!

[Mark Scarborough]

Well more puttering work done,, did a fair amount of sanding on the primer,, and got the motor battery bay rigged out . Its going to be tight, and awkward but it should all fit ok with sufficient airflow,,,,,,,
I think
anyway, you can see I added a couple basswood rails to bridge across the nose where the maple mounts stop ( which were machined ? down to 1/8" to allow more room. They tie in the mount firewall so its locked in place pretty well. The bowtie bridges will have velcro straps through the slots to hold the battery and the ESC and Timer will ive under the bowties.
Its almost ready for paint.
Today I need to finish the repairs to the muffler cutout on the fuse sides,, and more finish sanding on the cowling.
I refit the cowling since over time it had changed shapes slightly ( which is the risk of a resin cowling not kept on the airframe)
as you can see it fits pretty nice now. In fact the closure gap is so tight I will need to remove it when I clear the airframe or it may glue it shut...
anyway,, thats progress so far

[wwwarbird]

 Cool.

[Mark Scarborough]

Well, here is where the 109 stands now
I have a bit of fidgety sanding to do and its off to the paint shop... Al has the shop tied up till Thursday night so I will probably not get started until friday morning,, unless I sneak down and spray the basecoat on thursday night. I have elected not to do wheel well covers ( at this time) They will come in the near future. in order to get the airframe painted, I want to make sure I have time while the window is open.
Today will be sanding the last bits . I am not very happy about the lift struts on the horizontal, but I elected to just use a carbon tube instead of making an airfoiled strut, due to weight on the tail.
as it stands in the pictures, it weighs 38.5 ounces, the powertrain is approximatly 22 ounces ( 24 depending upon which battery I end up using, one is heavier but would provide more nose weight) That puts me at 60 ounces ready to fly with no paint.
If I can keep color and clear around 3 or 4 ounces I should be golden, assuming I dont need to add ballast, **please please no,,*
more progress to follow,,

The biggest debate now is,, do I spray it with gloss clear, or semi-gloss,, Knowing all the history with semi scale airplanes and appearance points,, it makes one hesitant,,,,

[MarcusCordeiro]

Beautiful!!!!!!

Marcus

[Tim Wescott]

Knowing all the history with semi scale airplanes and appearance points,, it makes one hesitant,,,,

Without wanting to derail your thread -- what's the scoop?  Is it a "can't win" sort of thing where half the judges grade you down for high gloss, while the other half grade you down for flat colors and realistic weathering?

Unfortunately there's probably not any airshow versions of the BF-109 out there -- if there were you'd have an excuse for gloss, and a flashy color scheme ready made, to boot.

[Mark Scarborough]

Thanks for the comments guys,,

Tim, mostly the deal is, back some years ago, Ron Burn did a Wildcat that would have won a scale contest, and recieved virtually no appearance points cause it was not shiney,, ( basically)

There are advantages to both,, gloss, if you get an anomoly in the clear, you can sand and polish it out,,, locally in just the spot,, with a semi gloss you dont have that option, in fact its virtually impossible to spot repair a semi gloss finish,, but it looks a lot more scale-ish,,

I think I can put a lighter clear coat on with semigloss,, but it would not be by much,, maybe half an ounce or so,,

[proparc]

Thanks for the comments guys,,

Tim, mostly the deal is, back some years ago, Ron Burn did a Wildcat that would have won a scale contest, and recieved virtually no appearance points cause it was not shiney,, ( basically)

I took a bunch of pictures of Ron Burns Wildcat at a contest in California some years back. Fantastic building. That is the way REAL Warbirds actually look. All it was lacking was bullet holes!

[Randy Powell]

I think you should do the gear doors. But that's just me.  

[Mark Scarborough]

I think you should door the gear doors. But that's just me.   

I am going to,, its just a matter of making my window to use the shop to paint it, and my time off most effectivly, I dont have time to get them done and paint with the rest of the plane,, They are small enough I can paint them after the fact.
thanks for the input Randy,,

[Tim Wescott]

Y'know, a BF-109 in an all-camo trim with a mile-deep glossy clear coat wouldn't look at all bad.

[roger gebhart]

Actually I think there are a few. CAF has one I'm pretty sure. Most likely built in spain but a 109 none the less

Quote didn't show but I'm talking about 109's on the airshow circuit.  Don't know if they are glossy or not.  I bet they are for ease of cleaning etc.

[Bill Little]

Hi Mark,

Looks really good!  I am sure it will come out as a great looking model.

How big (WS, Sq. In. ??) is it?

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Mark Scarborough]

Thanks BIll,
its right at 640 square inches, the TVC ( if I recall, its been awhile) is right around .500 give or take. originally it was going to have a Magnum .53,, but,, well as these things go, I converted it to an electron burner,,

[john e. holliday]

I remember seeing a ME/BF 109 at an air show at Olathe NAS years ago.   After flying in they discovered the spar was cracked and were going to disassemble the plane for trucking back to its base.   It was typical to me for a real war bird finish.  Not enough shine to blind you in the sun, but dull enough that you didn't worry if someone touched it.   

[wwwarbird]

 If it was mine I'd go with a satin type of finish, but for your purposes Mark you'd better go gloss.

 When it comes to appearance judging it's something that shouldn't be an issue, especially with a semi-scale Warbird model, but if you want max appearance points you better go shiny. Judges (IMO) should be looking at the quality of the overall build and finish, the type of finish should make no difference, whether it be flat, satin, or glossy.

[Mark Scarborough]

well,, off we go,, the shop is empty,, the sanding has been declared final,, the colors are mixed,, the paint stand created,, the spray guns located,, all that remains is lunch,, and then painting.... after first coats, then I will cut the masks for insignia,, pictures to follow,,

[wwwarbird]

well,, off we go,, the shop is empty,, the sanding has been declared final,, the colors are mixed,, the paint stand created,, the spray guns located,, all that remains is lunch,, and then painting.... after first coats, then I will cut the masks for insignia,, pictures to follow,,

[MarcusCordeiro]

well,, off we go,, the shop is empty,, the sanding has been declared final,, the colors are mixed,, the paint stand created,, the spray guns located,, all that remains is lunch,, and then painting.... after first coats, then I will cut the masks for insignia,, pictures to follow,,

Looking forward to them...

Marcus

[Mark Scarborough]

teaser alert,, just the white,,,,

just sprayed the white for under the insignia,, since it will remain masked for a goodly period of time, I will let it sit overnight,, maybe,,,, while I cut the masks,

[wwwarbird]

 Hey Mark, don't rush it.

[Andrew Borgogna]

Painting a war bird can be problematic for control line stunt.  I had a friend several years ago who painted his war bird to look authentic.  Flat finish scratch marks, black gun powder markings around the guns.  In my eyes it looked fantastic, but to the mirror finish, mile deep paint job guys it was terrible.  His appearance points always suffered because it didn't live up to the idea of what a beautiful plane should look like.  It really hurt the guys feelings, he spent a great deal of time trying to get an authentic WWII fighter finish and he got hammered for his effort.  It left a lasting memory on me.
Andy

[Mark Scarborough]

well after today,, its going ok.

the insignia is there masked up, tomorrow unmask and spray the black, then the rest of the markings,, then,, satin or gloss,,,,,,, sigh, still not sure

[john e. holliday]

Looking better.

[Joe Just]

Mark, looking to be one of your best!
Joe

[Balsa Butcher]

I like it Mark, the details you added in really make it stand out. Keep going and "git 'er dun!" 

[Randy Powell]

Should be very cool, Mark. I like it a lot.

[Mark Scarborough]

well,,, afternoon break for lunch
I wish I would have built this now instead of way back,, it would have been alot better,, alas, it is what it is,,

thanks for the positive comments guys

[Will Hinton]

I think it looks fabulous, Mark.  For me, the term, "semi-scale" gives us license to make the beast as shiny as we want!  The key word is "semi" is it not?
Whichever way you end up, you have a great looking stunt ship there!

[Bill Little]

Hi Mark,

I like it!  Did you find a proper spinner?  Also, what type and brand of paint are you using?

[wwwarbird]

 Looking awesome Mark, all paint is way cool.

 Can we get some step-by-step shots of how you align and use the graphic masks? The necessary exact alignment is what I have always wondered about.

[Mark Scarborough]

Guys ,, thanks for all the supportive comments,, I promise I will answer them tomorrow,,
I just finished shooting the clear. its late, I am tired, I have a mentor report to finish for a young man who is trying to graduate,,,

so for now,, I will leave you with this pict of the nose,, color scheme in place, panel lines in place,, pre clear

First blush says I used about 2 oz to complete the color scheme.

I will know later about the clear,, its a bit hard to weigh it when it keeps sticking to the scale,, LOL

[Tim Wescott]

That's looking way cool.

[Steve Helmick]

I guess I'll have to be satisfied with only one flame per side.  I'll look forward to seeing it in Eugene!  Steve

[wwwarbird]

 WOW-VERY COOL!

[Mark Scarborough]

WOW-VERY COOL!

and you thought it would never get done ha!! guess I showed you huh,,,

yeah ok so it took a few years,,

thanks

[wwwarbird]

 That's why I've kept on ya about it Mark, I knew that you'd do an awesome job on it. It's got a real nice "scale" look with just enough small details added.

 The only thing it's going to be missing is oil running down the belly!

[Randy Powell]

I like the paint scheme.

[Mark Scarborough]

That's why I've kept on ya about it Mark, I knew that you'd do an awesome job on it. It's got a real nice "scale" look with just enough small details added.

 The only thing it's going to be missing is oil running down the belly!

well Wayne, for you I will take a picture of it with a stream of oil on the belly,, but with my recent dietary constraints, all I have is virgin olive oil,, hope thats ok

[Jim Kraft]

Looks fabulous Mark. It represents the 109 very well and has the evil look from the original.

[Mark Scarborough]

I mentioned the canopy,, or was that on facebook?
anyway, I made one mistake there, I sanded it with 400 before I cleared it instead of using 600,,, so it has a bit of haze to it,, but,, I will live with,,, initial measurements,, color and clear added about 3 ounces,,