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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Doug Morris on April 02, 2011, 06:33:38 PM
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Hi Folks,
I'm not much qualified to comment on most topics. I'm not much of a builder or flier for that matter. However I have built a few decent airplanes ( if you don't look to close !!). But I'm amazed at the talent and abilites of you guys & gals.
Well there was some chatter about my question a few weeks ago. It's MonoKrap "uh" cote I mean. Don't most products get better or improved that stay on the market, not so with this stuff. I know I don't have to buy it but when your shopping and you see it,(thats the color I want) its hard not to say,"well maybe this roll will be better". NO NO NO it's not. How do you take it back when you've chopped a big chunk out of it? I'm DONE. I've found some of the other brands aren't much better either. I have an old Twister with Green metalflake monocote brand on it. I put it on in 1990 and theirs not a wrinkle in it and it will keep shrinking if you heat it.
GO FIGURE If I recall the green was about $8 bucks a roll. I don't know of any other product thats gotten worse and stays on the market!!
OK I'm finished venting!!! Hope some of you all can make it to the Flyin at St Augustine this coming weekend. I'll be the one with the pewky yellow/green Monocote thats saggy but it's ok though It's on a SLOB.
Doug M. 863718
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There are still some brands out there that still work. The stuff Brodak sells seems to work pretty good, for now anyway.
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Usually the trick to marketing is to figure out a way to lower manufacturing cost and keep the same price and quality. This stuff went the easy route reformulate the adhesive and blame it on the EPA make it thinne rplastic and of a different formula then the old product and keep the price up but lower the quality. Nothing like buying a product that doesn't stick and refuses to shrink and now burns through with very little provication.
I kind of like the name Monocrap but after 40 years of using the product it is painful to have to abandon it. Ultrakote is better but it too has it's limitations. I haven't used Brodaks, but if it's the same stuff that he used on his ARF's I'll pass. Sigs aerokote was interesting and If I could get it to stick to itself it would be good. It seems like thay are all hell bent on getting everyone back to dope. tragic for those of us that are allergic to the stuff or have no place to use it.
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I still use silk and dope, no problems with sagging. y1
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I can tell you that my elbow isn't getting better with age. Sanding is killing me. 8)
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I find its my scapula that gets tired more than my elbow
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Randy, I saw tony naccarato using a cute little belt sander that worked good. I guess you could use a dremmel for the heavy work. I still sand by hand too, thats why it takes me so long, arthritus and a torn rotator cuff, make it painful and difficult!! :'( jim
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I still use silk and dope, no problems with sagging. y1
I'm with Larry! I watch others put there monocoat covered planes in the shade between flights so it won't sag. Another a great benefit of silk is it's amazing strength when your plane smacks the ground . . . not that I've ever done that you understand. n~ ::) n~
Brian
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Monokote is strange now days. One roll is ok and another won't stick or shrink. For awhile thought is was difference in colors but that is now don't think so.
Recently covered one with Monokote O.D. Green and Sky Blue, both in flat finish. This is the best I ever had and that's even considering the 70s stuff. Stuck good, went around compounds good and shrunk good. The blue shrunk kinda funny needing heating up as more wrinkles appeared and keep heating and they came right out. lots of heat!
These 2 rolls (OD and Blue) looked like they had sat stored for awhile.
If yo plastic gets wrinkled in the heat it works to put it in the car in the sun on a hot day until its all wrinkled up and then quickly shrink it tight with heat gun. This will stop 99% of the heat caused wrinkling.
David
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Blame the tree hugger's. Any thing that works is made into crap so it biodegradeable.
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Has anyone complained to or questioned the manufacturer about the drop in quality and increased difficulty in application?
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Blame the tree hugger's. Any thing that works is made into crap so it biodegradeable.
I thought we are 'supposed' to blame Bush. LL~
Are Lipos biodegradable?
The confused do seem to be ok with the mercury emissions as well as so called greenhouse gas from broken compact fluorescent light bulbs on this water vapor green house planet. The EPA requirements for clean up of broken bulbs would break a small business.
David.
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Blame the tree hugger's. Any thing that works is made into crap so it biodegradeable.
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Amen! Could not possibly agree more!!! Anything that WORKS has been (or will soon be) outlawed by the Peoples' Republic of California and shortly thereafter by the knee-jerk "Green" wackos.
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Hi Doug
Yes I have noticed the same things you have, and we are not the only ones. Historically I have noticed a difference between colors - some handled easier than others or had a greater tolerance to temperature, but ALL could be made to do the job.
Afraid those days are done. I too have some "old" stock that I think will still handle very well, after that I don't know. Folks who have used both claim UltraCote still handles very well - I have only used it a couple times and it worked fine.
As for why any company would allow their product to suffer. I do not have an answer, but I do VOTE with my hobby dollars and will spend them where I get the best return on my investment!
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Here in the central Florida heat, iron-on finishes are needy things that seem to always be crying out for attention from the sealing iron. Every plane that I currently own that had a *kote has had to be refinished because the stuff was simply falling off and oil was getting into the wood after 5 years or less of use. Removing *kote and getting the colorful adhesive off of the wood is genuinely painful. Since this is not a process that I enjoy, I decided about three years ago to bypass the throw-away-finish phase and just put the painted finish on in the first place. I like dope over silkspan on sport and stunt ships and dyed silk on the vintage combat jobs. As noted, silk is much tougher than silkspan for the planes w/o landing gear. Can't say that the *kote was ever much good since it has bagged up in the heat for as long as I can remember. Feel sorry for those that have no other choice in a finish for whatever reason. With the obviously declining product quality that's coming out of our new owners, China, it's gotta be frustrating.
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That was my big complaint about plastic, it looks beautiful ! But castor finds a place to get under it and into the wood. Soon it begins to lift :'( bye bye pretty plastic plane. jim
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You gentlemen who like to cover in iron on coverings should give Solatex a go good range of colors even a plain if you want to paint ut requires no dope irons on and shrinks all with excellent results,
#^
Colin
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I have found no real difference in the way I put on Monokote now and the way I used to do it. It doesn't smell as good as it used to, and it has a separation between the color and film now where it used to be a solid colored film, but it's just different now, not unusable.
I am careful with the open bays, that's where it can go wrong with me. The sheeted areas seem easy. The shrinking is pretty easy as long as it is layed down and very taut already. I only heat the very edges with the iron, as little as can be gotten away with, then shrink it with the heat gun. Tips are still the same old fight to the finish, heat stretch, "I wish Whitely were here to heat while I stretch". I noticed that it takes a lot of heat to shrink but the fine line between the shrinking heat and a meltdown is narrower than the old. When it melts you can see the separation between the color and film, it used to just burn a hole that one would find a nice decal or sticker to cover it. Not so easy now as a larger area will be "burned" and discolored. This has only happened to me when I was repairing something in a hurry.
I'm doing an all white model with LustreKote and MonoKote and it's coming out well. I seal all of the edges with solvent and then go back over them with clear lacquer and a small plastic model type brush. I've got 500 flights on a Tower ARF Kaos that everyone complained about the covering "falling off" yet as prepared (before it's first flight) it's doing fine.
On R/C forums there are threads five years long discussing the new formula, very entertaining on a rainy night to read them.
Chris...
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Has anyone complained to or questioned the manufacturer about the drop in quality and increased difficulty in application?
Dick,
Surely you jest. Their mailbox has been overfilled with complaints probably for years. In my memory I cannot ever remember them taking the time to even write me and tell me to drop dead.
Help or consumer satisfaction is not the biggest asset to them. They will replace items from another manufacturer as they get credit for the item. They are not shy about avoiding any responsibility for the quality of their goods. Why do you think that customers and dealers call them Great Pain.
Dennis