Best flying kits

[Shorts,David]

Hi gentlemen,
I'm doing a little research.
1. What are the best kits if someone wanted to win PA?
2. What is the best plan of a model to win PA?
3. Agree or disagree... Any modern plane can win if trimmed properly with the best pilot.
4. Opinion of a few kits...legacy by Brodak.  Thunder gazer (presently out of production).   Vector .40.   SV-11 (Randy Smith). Does Max Bee (Burger )come as a kit? What else comes as a kit that might win?

[Brent Williams]

A well trimmed Practice-60 equipped with a tuned coach is usually a winning combo!. 

[Gary Dowler]

If you want my opinion, Id suggest that a well built, well trimmed SV-11 from Randy, powered by either one of his PA's, or by electric, would be as competitive from a material standpoint as you are going to get.

The great pilot with the good airplane will be more consistently competitive than the average pilot with the great airplane

Gary

[Motorman]

1. What are the best kits if someone wanted to win PA?

What are you flying now? The reason I ask is because I've tried allot of different size airplanes and I don't like the big ones that typically win contests. My competition planes are all 575 Sq. In.

That being said I'd go with the Tundergazer with electric power for a couple reasons. It has a special modern wing construction that is lighter and more warp resistant than most of the other kits in that catagory and all the other modern features.

The down side is you need a special wing jig and leading edge molding buck to do it right and the rib profiles only exist in our dreams. Hope you can find a kit for it. I made one that's only 92% full size and it's my bestest plane. I traced the ribs from an RSM kit and reduced them with a copier.

2. What is the best plan of a model to win PA?

Do you mean rolled up plans or plan to win. The plan to win is practice allot.

3. Agree or disagree... Any modern plane can win if trimmed properly with the best pilot.

Agree, a modern well trimmed plane with the best pilot would be a top contender. Just never forget this is a judged event and mojo does play a part.

4. Opinion of a few kits...legacy by Brodak.  Thunder gazer (presently out of production).   Vector .40.   SV-11 (Randy Smith). Does Max Bee (Burger )come as a kit? What else comes as a kit that might win?

Form follows function. Most top planes fall within certain parameters but have different plan forms and fuselage shapes. It's hard to go wrong. Pick something you believe in and would enjoy flying. That's the best thing.

MM



       

[fred cesquim]

actually one can build the Tgazer wing with simple gig and skipping the hard to achieve and dubious glue capability of the original kit method
i have split the sheeting in 2, butted at a LE lip, that doubles as jig support.

[Gerald Arana]

Hi gentlemen,
I'm doing a little research.
1. What are the best kits if someone wanted to win PA?
2. What is the best plan of a model to win PA?
3. Agree or disagree... Any modern plane can win if trimmed properly with the best pilot.
4. Opinion of a few kits...legacy by Brodak.  Thunder gazer (presently out of production).   Vector .40.   SV-11 (Randy Smith). Does Max Bee (Burger )come as a kit? What else comes as a kit that might win?

David;

There is no "BEST" airplane to do everything. When I was in glider competition, the guys would watch the winners and immediately go out and buy that kit hoping it would make them a winner.........Not so.

I built my own designs and was "Season Champ" two different years. (Had to beat the late Fred Weaver) I came in second in standard class at the Nats one year.

So, back to the design. What do you like? That is the question. ANY top design can/will win with the right pilot at the handle on any given day.   

Good luck, Jerry

[wwwarbird]

 Depends 98% on who's holding the handle, Joe Gilbert can beat most people with a Ringmaster. 

[Ty Marcucci]

Like a lot of guys, I would buy the kit that had proved to be a winner.. The Nobler is a case in point, and I have never, ever had a Nobler fly worth a hoot.. Same in free flight. I had one take off, under a big rain cloud, up it went, never saw it again. Mother nature won that one. Practice, practice practice until perfect them maintaining that is very hard and only a few have the dedication.  It's not the model, it's person holding the handle.

I have spent 80% of my time building, only 10% flying the rest bull sh&^ing, which is  large part of this hobby..ie talking about it..

[Motorman]

actually one can build the Tgazer wing with simple gig and skipping the hard to achieve and dubious glue capability of the original kit method
i have split the sheeting in 2, butted at a LE lip, that doubles as jig support.

You can built it many different ways. If you want a relaxed LE shell, ribs that are angled for the perfect glue joint and a cradle to build it in, I think the lost foam method is state of the art.

MM

[John Miller]

I tend to agree with the thoughts regarding, that more than the designs, it's the pilot that really matters. Now, having said that, A good pilot usually does even better with a good modern design. A few thoughts on available kits.

Brodak apparently is the last major kit producer in the U.S. and there're not too many modern designs in their lineup. The Legacy, Allen BrickHaus's almost 25-year-old design, is still a solid performer today. If built, straight and true, with proper incidences, power, and reasonable weight, it can perform. It may be best suited for Beginner through Advanced, although in the right hands can make a good showing in Expert.

The above caveats, "built, straight and true, with proper incidences, power, and reasonable weight", and "in the right hands can make a good showing in Expert". Apply to every design out there but does show the relationship that exist between the design, building, alignments, weight, power, and the skilled pilot.

A very low time pilot, beginning in our sport can almost start out with anything. As more experience accrues, this pilot can be held back from making decent timely progress, by his equipment. By stepping up to a better design this pilot can continue on in development faster, and more accurately, as his "Mount" of choice has better capabilities.

RSM kitted Gordan Delany's Pathfinder L.E. a final full-blown, full bodied, last in the series version, of the successful Pathfinder Profile. The Profile is a very decent competitor in its class, as well as some of the PAMPA skill Classes. The L.E. is just starting to make its appearance at comps. The two Prototypes, one of which I own and fly, is a pretty good performer and should begin to show its capabilities as more are built and flown in competition.

Brodak markets an interesting small version of the PF L.E. named "Little Elle". It's a .15-.25 sized adaptation of Gordan's larger L.E. The fuselage was slimmed down as it was not intended for a pipe and didn't need the extra depth in the lower fuselage to hide one. reports are that it is a decent small stunt design that flies pretty darned good.

There are others, but most are no longer being produced. Kaz Minato's "Blue Max" comes readily to mind. With the shut-down of RSM, there are few manufacturers of new, modern stunt kits. Additionally, With the loss of almost all the U.S. model aircraft magazines, we are seeing the loss of plans and articles for new modern stunt designs here at home. If this keeps up, it may become hard to get the plans and information about new designs.

I believe we are fast approaching the point where we will need to become "Scratch-Builders" as it may soon become almost impossible to buy a kit for a modern stunter except possibly from a collector, or estate sale.
 

[Ken Culbertson]

I believe we are fast approaching the point where we will need to become "Scratch-Builders" as it may soon become almost impossible to buy a kit for a modern stunter except possibly from a collector, or estate sale.
 

I have been that way since the 60's.  Once you get the tools and the feel for building to plans, even if you draw up your own, it is nearly as fast and certainly more rewarding.  BUT, it is not for everybody.  If you can't find enjoyment in ripping into a completed wingtip to relocate a leadout guide you got wrong on the plans - your plans - then keep hoping someone has what you are looking for in their collection of unopened kits or settle for something you didn't really want.  Another benefit - no more "Seconds and Surplus" wood.

Ken

[Steve Helmick]

It happened that I was writing a post yesterday suggesting the Pathfinder LE, but got interrupted by the resident alien. I think the trike gear (properly setup) is a good thing, but there is a weight penalty that needs to be worked around. It's too bad RSM has gone missing, but I'm sure there are kits out there on somebody's shelf...but not mine.

I sold Tim Just a UHP IMPact kit that I had. Hard to look past the IMPact. I'm not sure how many kit makers made IMPact kits, but two at least. Pat Johnston makes a LOT of laser cut kits and he said he has LOTS of light balsa when I saw him at the NWCLR at the end of May. He might cut an IMPact or even a Predator. I like the looks of the Predator but it was designed to be electron powered and using IC would take a fair amount of re-designing the front end.

Randy Aero's kits (choose one) or un-kitted designs (the SHRIKE) would serve very well. I rather like the 620-640 sq. in size range. Pulls less if it's windy and easier to get into the truck. My SV-11 has to go on the bottom station on my rack, and has to be angled and tilted just right to get into the back of my full sized pickup tailgate/canopy. I think all of Randy's designs are for piped ENGINES, but they'd work fine with a muffled setup. The SHRIKE would be great with a ST G.51.  Steve