Author Topic: I propose an experiment (Read 4269 times)

Jim Roselle · « **on:** March 25, 2014, 07:23:36 PM »

I am a new member of the AMA. Although I have read "model aviation" off and on for twenty five years I just recently joined so that I could join the Central Arizona Control Line Club. I thought it was time to be an active club member to support the hobby and help support the flying site I have been poaching for the past year. I have really noticed a decline in the magazine over twenty five years, I have seen several comments to the same effect on this forum. Whole lotta expanded foam ready to fly rc, quad copters, and not much else.

This past weekend I sent in photos of two different control line models for the "focal point" segment that features readers models. I'm curious to see if they make it into the magazine.

I would be really curious to see what would happen if every AMA member that post on the forum sent a photo of a model in to be published. How many would make it into the magazine? If nothing else it would let them we are still here and would appreciate some coverage of real modeling.

Here's the link to send a photo in if you want to participate:

http://modelaviation.com/focalpoint

Thanks for reading,

Jim Roselle

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2014, 08:13:48 PM »

This type of subject has come up before. It all about the bottom line. RC is BIG bucks- CL is not. They will cater to the masses. And in all fairness everyone would do the same thing.
I enjoy all types of model planes. I like to fly RC but my passion is CL.
I thumb MA and look at each page. They can't run a stunt article in every issue or else FF or combat would suffer.

I will look for your planes in MA.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2014, 08:16:24 PM »

Great idea! Let's tick them off by "testing" them to see if they cover C/L!

Count me out!

Garf · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2014, 08:16:52 PM »

While you're there, be sure to vote in their poll.

Mike Keville · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2014, 08:26:12 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on March 25, 2014, 08:16:24 PM

Great idea! Let's tick them off by "testing" them to see if they cover C/L! . . .

===========================================================

"If it ain't RC, you won't see."

RC Storick · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2014, 09:36:43 PM »

I use my monthly mag as epoxy mixing paper. Great use

wwwarbird · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2014, 12:13:51 AM »

Most of us realize that it's certainly not going to change the overall content in the magazine, but this photo thing isn't a bad idea. Although it's quite rare, I have seen C/L models on that photo page before. There's no reason we shouldn't "promote" ourselves there by submitting photos of C/L models. If nothing else it may remind a few people that some of us still build and fly these "things on strings".

On another note, it looks like we've gotten the attention of the Joe Nall event:

http://www.tripletreeaerodrome.com/control-line-circles.php

This shows us that more exposure can be good for us C/Ler's.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2014, 07:08:58 AM »

OK, I've submitted mine, but I have to mention that I have had a Free Flight model published there. That was about 6 years ago. In reality they don't get much material from either FF or CL groups. I'm not really defending them because I too hate the toy catalog they call a magazine, but if they were inundated with CL or FF material on a fairly regular basis, you'd see more of it I'm sure.

Joseph Patterson · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2014, 07:52:24 AM »

The photo idea is great! Thanks.
Doug

john e. holliday · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2014, 08:09:18 AM »

Now if you complainers would sit down and figure the percentages of the different types of modelling, you would probably see the FF guys have the most to complain about. I have seen CL planes in the section where guys show their favorite or latest model. We now have new blood doing the CL scale section. Bob has done the CL aerobatics for how long now. Where is the CL speed and CL combat articles? Yes I am one of the few that reads his issue from cover to cover. Have learned a few tricks from each issue. Have been an AMA member since 1956 when I flew my first contest with an engine that some say didn't exist back then. Now someone tell me when the Guillows Rat Racer came into the hobby shops? That was the plane I flew and was DQ'd because a wheel came off during qualifying heat. Remember when we had to fly 25 lap qualifying heats.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2014, 08:33:38 AM »

Great idea!!

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2014, 09:03:08 AM »

I hate to be viewed as a whining minority. I'm surprised they give it as much coverage as they do given the demographics. I've seen some pretty nice CL articles lately. If you want more stunt read Stunt News.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2014, 09:22:43 AM »

Realistically, PAMPA's Stunt News and Brodak's Control Line World don't help the Model Aviation thing very much. With these two CL-only magazines getting the lion's share of the input there isn't much left for MA.

When I send something to CLW there is 100% chance of being published. The chance of getting into Model Aviation is slim-to-none. So why even try?

peabody · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:25:12 AM »

I agree with Peter......there are very few CL fliers compared to RC and believe that the coverage is disproportionate to the numbers.
That said, I wager that control line fliers compete more as a percentage (along with free fighters) and that the AMA was formed to foster competition. Control line competition is probably better covered than most.
I am pleased with the magazine in general.......I find some of the ads important, and many of the articles and regular columns informative.

Complain if you wish, but I believe that drones, over the horizon capability and giant sized planes may trigger the end of model aviation, and that it important to stress to anyone that will listen that our modiels are tethered......

Have fun!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:57:21 AM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on March 25, 2014, 09:36:43 PM

I use my monthly mag as epoxy mixing paper. Great use

I have the AMA send mine to Pat Maset.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2014, 06:22:07 PM »

I just submitted this photo of my PBY Catalina stunter.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2014, 08:14:38 PM »

Don't they want the picture to be a huge file, like unedited? Bob Hunt does, for SN. I just don't keep any like that on my computer, and certainly not in my camera. What are their guidelines/requirements?

Steve

wwwarbird · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2014, 10:05:50 PM »

Jim,

I just re-read your title for this post. I agree with the "experiment" of us submitting some photos, but I don't see why we would want to call this a "protest".

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2014, 10:47:47 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on March 26, 2014, 10:05:50 PM

Jim,

I just re-read your title for this post. I agree with the "experiment" of us submitting some photos, but I don't see why we would want to call this a "protest".

I agree, protest is a little strong.

Jim

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #19 on:** March 27, 2014, 02:12:41 AM »

Awwwww...Phooey.
So what if there are a few more toy fliers than actual CL Modelers. The bottom line for us is we pay the same price for dues as the R/C Arf Bozos and get a tiny portion of coverage. The AMA is not interested in promoting anything but the AMA. They've become very much like our Federal Government, they're interested in keeping their jobs and acting important. Anyone that believes differently hasn't been paying attention for the past 50 years.
I berlong to the AMA because I have to in order to compete in organized competition. I believe nearly every CL and FF flier that belongs does so for the same reason. The Magazine is a genuine joke for CL and FF. Except for reading the column by Bob Hunt I chuck the mag and/or as was mentioned use it for mixing epoxy or lining the bottom of my bird cage. It does make for a fairly good fire starter in the fireplace. If of course I run out of TP it could possibly find another use. Every month same old ARF ads. 85 % of the pages are nothing but ads for R/C crap of absolutely no interest for CL or FF fliers or 75% of the R/C fliers.
Whoever said it, was right, it's a stinkin' catalog of ARFs and very little else.
Furthermore it's very representative of the attitude of the AMA in general...A SALES organization who just happened to be involved in selling ARF R/C airplanes...everything they do is to that end!
Awwwwww Phooey is all I have to say to any CL builder/flier that tolerates this rag and says things like "I enjoy it" etc!!!

Randy Cuberly
PS: You wouldn't want to hear what I really think about it!

55chevr · « **Reply #20 on:** March 27, 2014, 05:52:45 AM »

The AMA provides insurance which most will acknowledge is a benefit to us. Probably the biggest reason we are members. Hard fact is that they are a business and have to cater to the largest contributors to continue in business. RC flyers are the most members by far and ARFs are what a majority are flying. The house organ reflects that. AMA numbers being issued are now over a million. I would guess that there might be 500 control line stunt AMA members. Do the math.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #21 on:** March 27, 2014, 06:27:12 AM »

Actually, AMA membership is around 100,000. Unfortunately, the reason their license numbers are at (or over) a million is due to turn-over. A few years ago they sort of restarted on their license numbers by giving out old numbers, so they have had very significant turn-over. It turns out that their longest standing members are Free-flighters and Control-liners. They have huge turnover in their RC ranks as the latest RC fad comes through and they chase it for members. So now the fad is quadcopters and FPV. So, what do you see in their magazine? Lots of quadcopter and a rising level of FPV stuff.

Another thing: they are a non-profit and are supposed to be providing a public service (why they get a tax-break). They are not supposed to be a business interested simply in profit and growth.

Scott

peabody · « **Reply #22 on:** March 27, 2014, 06:49:12 AM »

I would wager that Control Line as a primary interest is over 5%, and as an occasional pursuit, closer to 10%....still not huge numbers or enough to sway the magazine content.

John Brodak says that his business is increasing and that the total number of customers is on the rise as well.....meaning that there might be an increase in "schoolyard fliers".

Paul Smith · « **Reply #23 on:** March 27, 2014, 06:53:38 AM »

A not-for-profit organization, like AMA, still needs a lot of income to cover its considerable expenses which include a flying site with 17 control line circles.

When a magazine prints a lot of copies the ads generate plenty of income which AMA (we) need. When the bulk of the advertisers are selling radio toys the radio toys drive the content.

Face it, we buy the licence to get to fly on fields that are obtained by AMA-chartered clubs, using AMA insurance to gain assess to the venue. The magazine is a minor side show to the key issue. The insurance is designed to protect the field owner, not the individual flyer. If it happens to benefit an individual it's a bonus.

55chevr · « **Reply #24 on:** March 27, 2014, 09:26:43 PM »

Using Scott's 100,000 member number .... IF there are 500 CL stunt flyers, that would be .005 ... The point is that we are a very small percentage of the enrollment. The ARF/RC members are driving the business. We don't have to like it, just have to accept the facts.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #25 on:** March 27, 2014, 09:53:07 PM »

Can we not make this the umpteen-thousandth AMA debate? This same stuff has been re-hashed a bazillion times.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #26 on:** March 28, 2014, 12:32:05 AM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on March 27, 2014, 09:53:07 PM

Can we not make this the umpteen-thousandth AMA debate? This same stuff has been re-hashed a bazillion times.

Why do you think I said Awwwww Phooey!!!
Dead horse!
Incidentally the insurance is a good selling piont to get flying fields but in fact it's really useless...read the fine print sometime. When was the last time they actually paid a major claim? Good ol' homeowners insurance and sometimes even Auto insurance picks up the real bills and WE pay for that too!

Ask for an accounting sometime!

Not the phoney thing they print in the Mag Rag!

As for supporting a flying field...baloney...It's almost 3000 miles from me...not a hell of a lot of good from that! Nice for the folks that live in that area...Like the AMA Biggies!!! nice work if you can get it.

Awwwwww Phooey...that's the AMA...

Randy Cuberly

john e. holliday · « **Reply #27 on:** March 28, 2014, 08:05:51 AM »

Well years ago when I was really trying to get CL going in the KC area and help the other clubs, being I was right on the edge of one district and most of the flying was in the other district I would send reports to both AMA District reps. Even the event I had in my district were never reported by my District rep. But Bob Underwood in the neighboring district would always have a word or two to say about what I sent him. But, he left the position and that was that. I know I don't send as much any more if anything. Now I need to make up for by Helping Dave Trible with his hope of getting more people flying in Kansas City. The circle is on the Kansas side of the line.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #28 on:** March 28, 2014, 11:58:30 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on March 28, 2014, 08:05:51 AM

Well years ago when I was really trying to get CL going in the KC area and help the other clubs, being I was right on the edge of one district and most of the flying was in the other district I would send reports to both AMA District reps. Even the event I had in my district were never reported by my District rep. But Bob Underwood in the neighboring district would always have a word or two to say about what I sent him. But, he left the position and that was that. I know I don't send as much any more if anything. Now I need to make up for by Helping Dave Trible with his hope of getting more people flying in Kansas City. The circle is on the Kansas side of the line.

Bet the AMA hasn't done anything to help your situation!!!

Just keep pay'n those dues for their personal flying site and their advertising rag...

Randy Cuberly

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #29 on:** March 28, 2014, 03:41:09 PM »

My only "accident" involved my free flight model, which did a beautiful big loop, came down on a parked car and made a nice hole in the hood (bonnet for some).

Upon inquiry, I found that AMA insurance does not cover damage to another AMA member's property.

So, at a contest, who else would be there except AMA members?

Floyd