I thought I had it bad!

[Tim Wescott]

My kids caught me doing air patterns in the family room yesterday, and in the ensuing discussion about how dad's condition really hasn't worsened, my wife commented that when she did the horsey stunt pattern (dressage), you had to practice the patterns out of sequence when you rode the horse, or it would anticipate during competition and screw up your timing.  So all serious dressage competitors have to spend a good amount of time trotting around an arena, pretending to be their horse, but couldn't 'fly' the pattern in sequence very often at all with their mount.

And here I thought I had it bad, memorizing a pattern that I never have to intentionally mix up!

[Randy Powell]

Tim,

My wife is also a dressage rider and we talk a lot about the similarities and differences.

[Mark Scarborough]

Tim
if you want to find a new way to screw up a pattern, I hope you watched my last advanced flight where I replaced a vertical eight with a spare and slightly poor horizantal one,, sigh,,

[Michael Massey]

My second flight was reminiscent of the "famous" cartoon by one of my favorite cartoonists, Gary Larson (I think spelled Larson although it may be Larsen).  It is a picture of the cymbal musician in an orchestra, watching his sheet music, which has one big note, intently and waiting for his big "cymbal note".  The caption reads, "I will not screw up, I will not screw up."  But of course, he is holding only one cymbal. 

I have practiced the pattern for months.  What did I do?  Did the reverse wing over AND overhead eight entry from the WRONG wind side.  My demonstration of how to get off on the "left" foot.

[Tim Wescott]

if you want to find a new way to screw up a pattern, I hope you watched my last advanced flight where I replaced a vertical eight with a spare and slightly poor horizantal one,, sigh,,

OK, this is where I have to admit how terrible I am with names and grovel a bit -- you're the one with the insanely nice I-beam stunter, that had you flying way high in the first round for fear of making it into an insanely unfortunate pile of balsa chips?

If so, I noticed that your level flight was a lot closer to five feet in the second round, but I'm still having such trouble with the full pattern that don't know what the maneuver is going to be until it's half over.

It is awfully nice to know that I'm not the only one who forgets elements, or where I am in the pattern.  Looking at it from the outside you'd think it'd be easy, but it sure is harder when you're in the center of the circle!

[john e. holliday]

I guess that is one of the reasons I fly for the fun of it anymore.  Seems every time I get a good flight going I try a little harder and leave something out.  Out practicing one day I kept wondering why my time was so quick doing the pattern.  Then it was pointed out by the great flying friends that I was leaving out the verticle 8.

[Mark Scarborough]

Tim,
Yeppers, we talked about cars, ( old fords mostly) and I do have the Avenger. Yes as I fly it I am getting more comfortable and getting closer to the ground. The flight I muffed the extra hori eight into started out WAY better than my first, I was averaging 4 point a manuever better than on the first flight,, well until,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
but hey the Avenger lived to fly another day so its all good.
That is actually the first time I have ever left out a manuever, or done an extra,, though I do seem to have a great deal of difficulty in counting level laps after take off,, sigh,,

[john e. holliday]

Hey, level laps are done as the great Rusty Brown taught me.  Remember your music class.  Go,  one, an a  two, an a three, an a four, an a five, an a six.  Should be ready for out side loops by then.   

[Tim Wescott]

Since I'm just starting, I'm trying to think of good habits to establish now that I won't have to undo later.  So I count laps "level flight 1, level flight 2, one for the judges, two for the judges, loop 1, loop 2, loop 3, on to inverted, one for the judges (this is beginner pattern), two for the judges ...".

If I'm nervous it goes "two for the judges, one for me, two for me, hey, three for me ..."

Trying to count total laps from takeoff just makes my head spin; I find it easier at this point to consider the laps that are part of maneuvers as just that: maneuvers.  So there's the lap that belongs to takeoff, the two that belong to the 'level flight' maneuver, the two for the judges, etc.

Time will tell if this is the right way to approach this.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Last year, at the Fall Follies, I did an absolutely wonderful inverted pullout on the reverse wingover.  I was so proud of that and thinking I really had a killer flight going, I flew inverted right past the judges!  But it didn't matter, because I ran out of fuel in the cloverleaf.
Floyd (not ready to move up)

[Randy Powell]

Hey Mark,

Watch me close after I take off and you'll see me counting with the fingers of my off hand. I do the same thing with inverted laps. Of course, I talk to myself during the pattern too.

Sigh...

[Tim Wescott]

Tim,
Yeppers, we talked about cars, ( old fords mostly) and I do have the Avenger. Yes as I fly it I am getting more comfortable and getting closer to the ground. The flight I muffed the extra hori eight into started out WAY better than my first, I was averaging 4 point a manuever better than on the first flight,, well until,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
but hey the Avenger lived to fly another day so its all good.
That is actually the first time I have ever left out a manuever, or done an extra,, though I do seem to have a great deal of difficulty in counting level laps after take off,, sigh,,

That paint job is just something else.  I keep going over snarky things to say for the humor value, but I can't -- you just did too nice of a job with that to make a joke out of it.

It's too bad my dad has passed away -- I'd drag him to the next meet just for that plane.  He'd have preferred to see it on a car*, but he would have liked to see the artistry and workmanship none the less.

* Preferably a customer's car -- he was always perfectly happy to do things like pimping up the underside of a car and keeping it wrapped in velvet for a show and all that, but his attitude was that if you hadn't driven it on a rainy day then it wasn't a car, it was just a Really Big Model.

[Tim Wescott]

Watch me close after I take off and you'll see me counting with the fingers of my off hand. I do the same thing with inverted laps. Of course, I talk to myself during the pattern too.

Now I want a poll of the super-top experts -- the one's who've taken home hardware from the Nats and the Worlds -- to know what (if anything) they do to keep track.  I'm sure that there's at least one who will just offhand say "oh, I just fly the pattern, it's no trouble" -- I'm more looking for the ones who have managed to deal with their humanity, not the ones who are superhuman.

[Paul Walker]

Now I want a poll of the super-top experts -- the one's who've taken home hardware from the Nats and the Worlds -- to know what (if anything) they do to keep track. 

Yes, I absolutely keep track of every level lap and every maneuver. I don't know how to do it any other way.

P Walker

[John Witt]

Yeah, one of the problems with electric airplanes is that I'm sure the judges can hear me talking to myself.  Every time I don't do that I forget something.

John

[Michael Massey]

Tim,

I have just recently learned the pattern.  I finally got through it in its entirety last April, then flew in the May regionals.  So, although by no means an expert, I can say from a somewhat new beginner's standpoint, that repetition will serve you well.  Sometimes while watching someone else fly any maneuver, I will ask myself what the following maneuver is.  Although anyone can have a "transitory senior moment" and blow the current and/or following maneuver, you will find that remembering the pattern will get easier and easier. 

Something that I did that worked well for me as I crashed and learned, was to have an assembly line of planes.  I picked an easy plane to build, one that flew well for me and made 5 of them.  I still have 1.  The idea is that when you crash, and you will, you can get right back to flying with the next airplane.  I called them my QNDT's.  (Quick and Dirty Trainers)  I did not spend any time trying to make them look nice, only fly well.

As you already mentioned in one of your posts, the larger planes are easier to fly.  True, true, true.  I have finally settled on .40 to .46 for now.  The first few QNDT's followed the general moments of a Smoothy.  I then "made them bigger" for the .40 and/or .46.  My last plane, that I fly now and did at the Fall Follies, follows the general moments of a Pathfinder and sports a OS .46.  Even though it has had 2 or 3 "close encounters of the ground kind" it still flies well.

Keep at it and have fun.

Mike

[Tim Wescott]

The Waiex that I flew Sunday is kind of that intent -- easy to build, easy to repair, easy to make look good.  The only violations of the basic principals that I know of are the Hershey-bar wing (impacts performance but that's what the prototype has), and the V-tail (which was entirely self-indulgent, because I could have modeled anything, including the Sonex which is a Waiex with a conventional tail).

It's 25 sized because that's what fits in my trunk!  Anything over 48" span won't go in there unless it's take-apart.  I've got a K&B 40 and a Fox 35 waiting for when I get a tonneau cover made for my pickup.  Then I can drive around with more and bigger planes.

[Howard Rush]

Looked like a good airplane to me. 

[Tim Wescott]

I need to take it to Delta park or Salem and have someone competent fly it.  I cribbed the numbers for it from a number of known-good designs, but there are obvious deviations from a run of the mill stunter and I'm no judge of a good airplane just yet.

[Randy Cuberly]

Now I want a poll of the super-top experts -- the one's who've taken home hardware from the Nats and the Worlds -- to know what (if anything) they do to keep track. 

Yes, I absolutely keep track of every level lap and every maneuver. I don't know how to do it any other way.

P Walker

Tim,
What you want to ask is have any of those "wonder boys" ever forgotten a maneuver?  Ho, Ho, Ho,.

Randy Cuberly.     "I have an excellent memory....it's just a little short!"

[Tim Wescott]

What you want to ask is have any of those "wonder boys" ever forgotten a maneuver?  Ho, Ho, Ho,.

What I want to know is the right habits I should be establishing now, so I don't have to undo any later.

[Howard Rush]

Set your handle so it's straight up and down at neutral.

[wwwarbird]

Set your handle so it's straight up and down at neutral.

 Howard strikes again!

[Howard Rush]

One of the judges noticed that Tim holds his handle tilted way back at neutral.  Tim was able to fly that way, but that judge and I thought he'd be better off with a different position.

When I took up stunt, I decided to copy Paul Walker's preferences for things like handle setting and learn to like them.  This has worked pretty well.

[Howard Rush]

Now I want a poll of the super-top experts -- the one's who've taken home hardware from the Nats and the Worlds -- to know what (if anything) they do to keep track.  I'm sure that there's at least one who will just offhand say "oh, I just fly the pattern, it's no trouble" -- I'm more looking for the ones who have managed to deal with their humanity, not the ones who are superhuman.

I haven't seen Paul forget a maneuver. 

The Jive Combat Team puts some effort into dealing with its humanity, but is notorious for not performing the full, standard set of tricks.  In my case, it is probably age-related short-term memory loss.  I eventually plan to use an MP3 prompter.  My memory problem shows up in other aspects of stunt.  I know I'll never remember whether I've charged the battery in an electric stunter, so I'll have to build a tester and annunciator into the airplane. 

[wwwarbird]

One of the judges noticed that Tim holds his handle tilted way back at neutral.  Tim was able to fly that way, but that judge and I thought he'd be better off with a different position.

When I took up stunt, I decided to copy Paul Walker's preferences for things like handle setting and learn to like them.  This has worked pretty well.

 I thought you were just kidding with that handle/neutral comment comment Howard. This is good advice Tim.

 FWIW, I normally have my handles set more or less like Howard mentions above. To find my neutral setting, I stand facing perpendicular to the airplane and extend my arm straight out toward it at shoulder height or slightly below. Then I'll relax my wrist to my own comfortable "neutral" and the handle at neutral right there. All of this is done with someone holding the model level at 4 or 5 feet off the ground. To double check the setting I'll look away from the model and operate the controls back and forth a few times, relax my hand back to neutral, and then look back and compare that with the model.

 Just last Sunday though I swapped out a set of lines on a model, got lazy, and didn't do an adequate neutral check before the next flight. I took off to quickly find out that I had to hold my hand at about 45 degrees "up" for level flight, oops!

[john e. holliday]

I think we have all done that at one time or another.  Even changing planes will sometimes change neutral feeling.   

[Tim Wescott]

One of the judges noticed that Tim holds his handle tilted way back at neutral.  Tim was able to fly that way, but that judge and I thought he'd be better off with a different position.

I had thought I had my hand dead upright in level flight -- apparently not!!  It's one of those "tilt forward" handles that were as nifty as heck in the early 80's when I bought it, but which I've seen discussion here as giving one trouble in the inverted maneuvers.  So to compensate (since I didn't have time to buy or build a handle for Salem) I just adjusted the handle so that handgrip upright = elevator neutral.  Or at least that was the intent.  I knew it felt like I had my wrist cranked backwards, but I assumed that I was just having trouble making the transition.

Maybe I can convince someone to take videos of my hand while I fly, if I can't figure it out from feel and from glancing at my hand while I'm in level flight.

We're due for rain this weekend, so instead of flying I'll be building myself a Fancher-style handle and a clip bender.  That should take care of the bent handle itself, then I can start working on making sure it's really trimmed right.

When I took up stunt, I decided to copy Paul Walker's preferences for things like handle setting and learn to like them.  This has worked pretty well.

Part of the value I got out of the meet was watching the style of the top guys, to pick out what I could emulate.  Certainly the "handle straight up all the time" stance seems to make oodles of sense to me.  The "just fly phenomenally well" part will, I think, take a bit of time to emulate though.

[Mark Scarborough]

The level lap thing bit me because I took off slightly past the judges and counted that as a lap, so I didnt pass the judges enough times,, so lesson learned, do many many laps before the wingover 
Then after the horiz eight, and the square eight, a thermal blew threw so when I came around to do the vertical, it was blowing in my face, being a considerate kinda guy,, cough cough,, I knew it would blow past so I did a few laps waiting,, then a few more,, then it settled down so I did my horizantal eight, then the hourglass, ,, yeah you caught it didnt you,, but I didnt,, sigh,, thats a really good way to screw up a good flight,, oh and run out of fuel in the clover as well!

[john e. holliday]

Mark, don't slap your hands too hard.  We have all done that and been there in trying to impress the judges.  Anymore, I try to just impress myself when I am flying.  I also keep telling myself that those guys/gals with the pencils and clip board surely know what they are doing.