What year was the last NAVY NATS?

[RC Storick]

How many diffrent winners before the AMA and PAMPA took over and How many after ?

[RandySmith]

How many diffrent winners before the AMA and PAMPA took over and How many after ?

The AMA has always had control, I think PAMPA started to run the NATs as event directors in 1973 or 4
There has been somewhere around 18 or so different Cup Winners   since The PAMPA  Event Direction... which by the way  WAS and IS a  HUGE improvement over past days.
There looks like 19 before PAMPA started to event Direct the NATs

Paul has the Cup...he can count the names,  Keith  will know instantly :-)

Randy

[bill bischoff]

The last Navy Nats was 1972 at Glenview NAS in Illinois.

[RandySmith]

Year Name Model Engine Location
2013  Paul Walker  Muncie, IN
2012 Doug Moon Bear RIFf RAFF PA 65  Muncie, IN
2011 Dave Fitzgerald  StarGazer PA 75  Muncie , IN
2010 Bill Werwage Thunderbolt PA 61  Muncie, IN
2009 Dave Fitzgerald Thunder Gazer PA 75 Muncie, IN
2008 Orestes Hernandez Yatsenko Shark Discovery Retro 60 Muncie, IN
2007 Orestes Hernandez Yatsenko Shark Discovery Retro 60 Muncie, IN
2006 Brett Buck Infinity RO-Jett 61 Muncie, IN
2005 Paul Walker For Reals OS 40 VF Muncie IN
2004 Dave Fitzgerald Star Gazer IV PA 61 Muncie IN
2003 Dave Fitzgerald Star Gazer IV PA 61 Muncie IN
2002 Paul Walker P-51 Miss America Saito 56 Muncie IN
2001 Dave Fitzgerald Star Gazer IV PA 61 Muncie, IN
2000 Ted Fancher Final Edition PA 61 Muncie IN
1999 Dave Fitzgerald Star Gazer III PA 61 Muncie IN
1998 Paul Walker Impact OS 40 VF Muncie IN
1997 Dave Fitzgerald Star Gazer I PA 61 Muncie IN
1996 Bob Baron Pattern Master Super Tigre 60 Muncie IN
1995 Ted Fancher Great Expectation OS 46 VF Pasco WA
1994 Paul Walker Impact PA 40 Lubbock TX
1993 Paul Walker Impact OS 40 VF Vincennes IN
1992 Paul Walker Impact OS 40 VF Westover AFB MA
1991 Paul Walker For Reals? OS 40 VF Vincennes IN
1990 Paul Walker Impact OS 40 VF Vincennes IN
1989 Jim Casale Spectron-Columbia Super Tigre 60 Pasco WA
1988 Jim Casale Spectron-Columbia Super Tigre 60 Tidewater VA
1987 Paul Walker Bad News IV Super Tigre 60 Lincoln NE
1986 Ted Fancher Citation V Super Tigre 46 Lake Charles LA
1985 Jim Casale Spectrum Mk III '85 Super Tigre 60 Westover AFB MA
1984 Paul Walker Bad News I OS 45 FSR Reno NV
1983 Jim Casale Spectrum Mk III Super Tigre 60 Westover AFB MA
1982 Ted Fancher Intimidation Super Tigre 46 Lincoln NE
1981 Bill Werwage USA-1 Super Tigre 46 Seguine TX
1980 Les McDonald Stiletto 660 K&B 40 Wilmington OH
1979 Bob Gieseke Gieseke Nobler Fox 35 Lincoln NE
1978 Bob Whitely Derringer Super Tigre 46 Lake Charles LA
1977 Al Rabe P-51 Mustang   Riverside CA
1976 Bob Hunt Genesis Mk III Super Tigre 46 Dayton OH
1975 Bob Gieseke Gieseke Nobler Fox 35 Lake Charles LA
1974 Bob Gieseke Gieseke Nobler Fox 35 Lake Charles LA
1973 Al Rabe  Sea fury Super Tigre 60 Oshkosh WI
1972 Dennis Adamisin Fouga Magister OS Max-S 35 Glenview Il
1971 Bill Werwage USA-1 Super Tigre 40 Glenview Il
1970 Keith Trostle Focke-Wolf OS Max 35 Glenview IL
1969 Bob Lampione F-86 Sabre Fox 35 Willow Grove PA
1968 Bob Gieseke Gieseke Nobler Fox 35 Olathe KS
1967 Barton Klapinski Tempest McCoy 40 Los Alamitos CA
1966 Bob Gieseke Gieseke Nobler Fox 35 Glenview Il
1965 Bob Gialdini Eclipse Veco 45 Willow Grove PA
1964 Jim Silhavy Nobler Fox 35 Dallas TX
1963 Bob Gialdini Sting Ray Veco 35 Los Alamitos CA
1962 Gerry Cipra Nobler Fox 35 Glenview Il
1961 Lew McFarland Shark 45 Veco 45 Willow Grove PA
1960 Jim Silhavy Nobler Fox 35 Dallas TX
1959 Bill Werwage Ares Fox 35 Los Alamitos CA
1958 Arthur P. Pawloski Atom Fox 35 Glenview Il
1957 George M. Aldrich Nobler Fox 35 Willow Grove PA
1956 Bill Cummings   Dallas TX
1955 Bob Palmer Thunderbird Veco .35 Los Alamitos CA
1954 Hill Hutchins Jr.   Glenview IL
1953 Bob Elliott Black Tiger  Willow Grove PA
1952 George M. Aldrich Nobler Fox 35 Las Alamitos CA
1951 Don "Buzz" Ferguson Cheek Cowl Barnstormer Fox 35 Dallas TX
1950 Lou Andrews Trixter Barnstomer Fox 35 Dallas TX
1949 W. Howard Thombs Di-Doe Profile Bi-plane O&R .29 Olathe KS
1948 Davey Slagle Checkala Roma Super Cyclone Olathe KS
1947 Davey Slagle Checkala Roma Super Cyclone Montcello MN
1946 Davey Slagle Checkala Roma Super Cyclone Wichita KS

[Randy Cuberly]

Well
looking at this list all at once makes me realize what a Superman Paul Walker really is.

He won the Walker cup 11 times in the past 30 years and 5 of those were consecutive wins.

That is just incredible!

Add his world Championships to that and it really becomes remarkable.

Of course we all knew this...but it is still amazing!

And after all that He seems to be better than ever now!

I know this really has nothing to do with when the Navy gave up the NATS...but I just had to remark about it.

Randy Cuberly

[Howard Rush]

It's those VGs.

[Trostle]

Well, like Randy said, the Nats has always been run by the AMA.  I am not sure when the stunt event first started using Navy judges, but have an idea it was at the 48 Nats at Olathe.  From that time until 72, Navy judges were used while the AMA provided the ED and organized the administration of the event.  The AMA organized and provided the volunteers, including judges, at the 73 Nats.  The PAMPA organization had its origin at a meeting during that 73 Nats, became the recognized Special Interest Group by the AMA for CLPA and with that, PAMPA was assigned the responsibility by and under the surveillance of the AMA to organize and provide the necessary manpower including the judges to administer the Nats, beginning with the 74 Nats at Lake Charles.  (PAMPA also was similarly given the responsibility by the AMA to organize and run the Team Trials for the CL World Championships, the first Team Trials run by PAMPA was in 75.)

So, Randy's list compiles all of the Walker Cup Champions since its beginning in 1946.  Robert, that should give you whatever numbers you are trying to generate.

Keith

[Randy Cuberly]

Robert,
Easy Guy,  if anyone "Jumped" on you I missed that.  I thought it was a very intresting question and I didn't know the answer.  I do now thanks to your question.

I think a lot of people didn't know the answer maybe that's why answers were a little slow in coming.

You can always count on our friend Keith to know the answer to questions like that...and a lot of other categories...I for one am very glad to have him here in Tucson.  I can ask him a lot of questions in private and nobody else knows how ignorant I am. 

If you had an ulterior motive for asking the question I also missed that.
Nobody is picking on anyone in that thread that I can see.

Randy Cuberly

[RC Storick]

You are trying to make it such. ONE MANUVER!

But sense you asked 14 diffrent winners in the last 40 years and 22 in the first 26 years. See a pattern here? Must be the good judging we have now right? Be careful some pretty good fliers are among the 22.

And you wont have to worry again I have spent enough money on that vacation site time for a new one.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's other possible factors to consider besides the switch in judging, though.

The Top 5 format was introduced in 1977, which changed the scoring parameters of how winners are determined. IIRC, earlier Nats were determined by one high score, rather than best two out of three.

The switch to a single site (Muncie) changed things as well - rather than everyone showing up to a new site and having to trim for the conditions of that site, most flyers go to the Nats with a reasonable expectation of the necessary trim required.

And a bunch of other things.

I'm not saying that the change in judging wasn't a factor, but to say it's the only factor doesn't seem likely.

[RandySmith]

 
By my count, looks like we have had 14 different people win since 1974 , as for the reason for that ,I would blame Paul Walker... he could have stayed home and let someone else win  LOL :-)
2012 Doug Moon Bear RIFf RAFF PA 65  Muncie, IN
2011 Dave Fitzgerald  StarGazer PA 75  Muncie , IN
2008 Orestes Hernandez Yatsenko Shark Discovery Retro 60 Muncie, IN
2006 Brett Buck Infinity RO-Jett 61 Muncie, IN
1996 Bob Baron Pattern Master Super Tigre 60 Muncie IN  
1984 Paul Walker Bad News I OS 45 FSR Reno NV
1983 Jim Casale Spectrum Mk III Super Tigre 60 Westover AFB MA
1982 Ted Fancher Intimidation Super Tigre 46 Lincoln NE
1981 Bill Werwage USA-1 Super Tigre 46 Seguine TX
1980 Les McDonald Stiletto 660 K&B 40 Wilmington OH
1978 Bob Whitely Derringer Super Tigre 46 Lake Charles LA
1977 Al Rabe P-51 Mustang   Riverside CA
1976 Bob Hunt Genesis Mk III Super Tigre 46 Dayton OH
1974 Bob Gieseke Gieseke Nobler Fox 35 Lake Charles LA

[RC Storick]

By my count, looks like we have had 15 different people win since 1974 , as for the reason for that ,I would blame Paul Walker... he could have stayed home and let someone else win  LOL :-)
2012 Doug Moon Bear RIFf RAFF PA 65  Muncie, IN
2011 Dave Fitzgerald  StarGazer PA 75  Muncie , IN
2010 Bill Werwage Thunderbolt PA 61  Muncie, IN
2008 Orestes Hernandez Yatsenko Shark Discovery Retro 60 Muncie, IN
2006 Brett Buck Infinity RO-Jett 61 Muncie, IN
1996 Bob Baron Pattern Master Super Tigre 60 Muncie IN  
1984 Paul Walker Bad News I OS 45 FSR Reno NV
1983 Jim Casale Spectrum Mk III Super Tigre 60 Westover AFB MA
1982 Ted Fancher Intimidation Super Tigre 46 Lincoln NE
1981 Bill Werwage USA-1 Super Tigre 46 Seguine TX
1980 Les McDonald Stiletto 660 K&B 40 Wilmington OH
1978 Bob Whitely Derringer Super Tigre 46 Lake Charles LA
1977 Al Rabe P-51 Mustang   Riverside CA
1976 Bob Hunt Genesis Mk III Super Tigre 46 Dayton OH
1974 Bob Gieseke Gieseke Nobler Fox 35 Lake Charles LA

That's not correct I said diffrent winners. Billy is there 2 times. Also this is not a debate. I asked how many winners and 3 diffrent people turned it into something else.

[RandySmith]

no, my count was wrong , I counted Billy twice, it is 14, But my point was  is that Paul Walker winning that many NATs  IS the reason for that stat, and make no mistake about it, Paul did win those NATs , I don't know of anyone that would dispute that, He was the best there on the years he won without question.

Randy

[RC Storick]

no, my count was wrong , I counted Billy twice, it is 14, But my point was  is that Paul Walker winning that many NATs  IS the reason for that stat, and make no mistake about it, Paul did win those NATs , I don't know of anyone that would dispute that, He was the best there on the years he won without question.

Randy

Of this I have no question. That is not what this thread is about. This thread turned when people turned it and it needs to stop this direction