stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Ron Merrill on December 28, 2010, 12:42:01 PM
-
I had a young man (20-25) approach me about getting into c/l stunt flying and what he should buy to get going. He has the means (money) and help, what would you guys recommend? Thanks in advance, all suggestions welcome. y1 #^ Ron.
-
How about the Sig Skyray .35 and a Max .20fp.........you know, the famous Brett Buck/Dirty Dan, 100% successful every time combination............can't lose with that for starters.........then on the the Paul Walker Impact and whatever the elite crowd is currently using for power in this design. LL~ #^ y1
-
I agree with the BBTU FP.20 ( I have six) and also consider the ARF Flite Streak with Dan's mods and you have a killer combo......and Happy New Year !!
-
He will be having to go the ebay route, probably, to get a BTU OS .20FP. And then it needs the correct muffler (2030), which some came with and others didn't. Add to that a stock OS NVA and venturi, since most of them are R/C. But that would be my first choice with either a Sky Ray (big one, ."35" size) or a Flite Streak ARF.
Otherwise an OS .25LAS for the engine with an added metal backplate (Curtis Shipp?) which will work fine for a beginner and on past that. I highly recommend a metal back plate for all the LA's. I have seen too many have trouble with the plastic ones leaking, and a beginner doesn't need that.
The ARF Flite Streak w/OS .25LAS are available over the counter and would get him started quickest with a reasonable set up. Oh yeah, unless someone changed the instructions for the F.S, the balance point shown is WAY off. Balance it near the wing spar or a little in front to start with.
Big Bear
-
Thanks for all the help. Just got off the phone with this guy (Bo), and i misunderstood, i guess i am the help. I am over 70 and it's been a long time since i started. I will try and find a FP.20fs. I have a .25, but know nothing about the Skyray.35/OS.20fp setup. '' I need all the help i can get, so please fill me in. n~ Ron.
-
You didn't say if he's getting into it from something else, or if he's going to be learning CL as well. Nor if he wants to build or just to fly. I haven't flown a Flight Streak, but my understanding is that the Skyray is a copy of it. If so, then it's a good training plane and not a bad place to start.
If he hasn't built before and he's not dead set on building his own then have him start with an ARF. If he hasn't flown before then make sure he understands that he's got to walk before he runs, and start him off with a forward CG and reduced control throw, and maybe even over-rich runs or other measures to make sure the plane isn't going as fast as it can. If you don't know how to show someone to fly from inside the circle then ask here, or dig for a video. I didn't realize until I started frequenting this group that there was an alternative to the Abbreviated Bleriot Method* for teaching; I had a chance to teach a kid to fly this summer and was astounded at how easy it was for both of us to hold one handle and fly a plane -- I had her soloing after half a dozen** flights, and she didn't leave until her grandparents dragged her off. So if you haven't done it before -- it's easy.
I would strongly recommend that he stick with profile planes until he's at the point of being held back in contests by appearance points and tail flexing. Until then the robustness and the ease of access and repair should trump the good looks and rigidity of a full-fuse plane. He'll go to full fuselage before he's ready, but don't we all?
I would also strongly recommend that you don't let him get scared of inverted flight, and that you have him practice it early and often. As soon as he can do lazy eights he can start learning inverted flight. It seems to be the most common bug-a-boo that holds people back from making the transition to Advanced; you may as well kill the monster before it grows teeth.
Dick Mathis had a book called "How to Fly U-Control", published in 1975. I don't know if it's still in print, or if there's better ones out there, but I sure like it. His focus is on taking you from a non-flier to the AMA stunt pattern. The only things that are missing from the book from today's perspective are comments on Schnuerle engines, the wisdom of just buying an ARF and learning how to build later, and the Beginners Pattern. I love that book, and I particularly like the section on how to learn to fly stunt -- he's got a nice method in there for sneaking up on "real" maneuvers that is not only good for a beginning pilot, but (I've found) a good sequence to go through with a brand new plane that you're not sure of. If you can find a copy -- buy it. If you can't -- hope that someone out there has an equivalent that's just as good.
Finally -- get him to sign up here. He can ask questions and we'll be nice when we answer them.
* Launch, crash, repair, repeat. The real Bleriot method had you controlling planes of ever-increasing performance until finally they gave you one that could fly. Crashes were common, but generally mild. http://www.airminded.net/bleriot/bleriot.html.
** Granted, she was 12, which is the ideal age for learning this stuff.
-
** Granted, she was 12, which is the ideal age for learning this stuff.
Curious, why do you say that?
Big Bear
-
So here is my 2 cents.... just got back into this about 5 or 6 years ago. Looking back and knowing what I know now.
ARF Flite Streak with a LA .25 box stock.
If you go with a FP you can not get fuel at a LHS. It will require 28% castor and for a newbie it is a little hard to get unless you order on line at Fox. Keep it simple. And if $$$ is no object, get 2 ARF FS. y1
-
** Granted, she was 12, which is the ideal age for learning this stuff.
Curious, why do you say that?
Big Bear
Young enough to learn quickly, have good reflexes, and not get wrapped around the axle if she crashes, old enough to sit still for preflight instruction and responsible enough not to crash for the fun of it.
You're never too old to learn this stuff, mind, but 12-20 seems to be the best for picking it up in one session.
-
So here is my 2 cents.... just got back into this about 5 or 6 years ago. Looking back and knowing what I know now.
ARF Flite Streak with a LA .25 box stock.
If you go with a FP you can not get fuel at a LHS. It will require 28% castor and for a newbie it is a little hard to get unless you order on line at Fox. Keep it simple. And if $$$ is no object, get 2 ARF FS. y1
Hi Paul,
I agree with all but one minor thing! LOL!! have never used 28% castor in the fuel for my OS FP engines.
-
Hey Wild Bill,
Like I said, I am still a newbie... LL~
I always thought that any engine with a steel P&L had to use high % castor like a Fox?
All my old OS engines have steel P&L's. That is why I suggested the LA.
-
Hey Wild Bill,
Like I said, I am still a newbie... LL~
I always thought that any engine with a steel P&L had to use high % castor like a Fox?
All my old OS engines have steel P&L's. That is why I suggested the LA.
The older ones Paul, but probably not that much castor. The later ones were ABN (aluminum, brass and nichol), could be run on any R/C juice.
-
Spend the first year with a stunt tuned .20/.25's and a two of the same 400 square inch non-flapped models
Year two and three would be with two stunt tuned .40/.46's with three 500 square inch flapped profiles
Year four with a full fuselage 550 square inch stunt model with one of your left over /40.46's from year 2 & 3
Year five with any full blown modern stunt model or a great flying classic/nostalgia 30 model you desire.
Note that I stayed away from any brands, just a focus on engine size and type of models.
Fly with a good-good pilots who are willing to help you and do not drive them nuts.
Ask pertinent questions and follow their advice.
Allen Brickhaus
-
If you have a student that listens and flies a lot, it will not take that long. But, then I have those like me that after 40 years still can't fly a decent pattern.
My experience is go with ARF Flite Streak and a good .25. Then move up to a good ARF full bodied plane. Yes they have their weak points and can be corrected during assembly. This is when it depends on lthe persons pocket book. There are a lot of good engines in the .40 size range. My thoughts. H^^
-
Hey Wild Bill,
Like I said, I am still a newbie... LL~
I always thought that any engine with a steel P&L had to use high % castor like a Fox?
All my old OS engines have steel P&L's. That is why I suggested the LA.
Hi Paul,
I run the old FPs on 1/2 and 1/2 oil around 20%-22% (like Sig Champion.) They have better design and metallurgy than say a McCoy .35 RH.
-
Thanks to everyone for the advice. Bo has never flown or built. I will help him build the Skyray 35 and have found a couple of .20's. I have a .25 and a ARF FS. Now i will start SR/.20. Please keep the help coming, 70+ is pretty late to teach, but with your help i will try. The guy is a inganeer and seems real sharp and motivated. H^^ Ron.
-
Thanks to everyone for the advice. Bo has never flown or built. I will help him build the Skyray 35 and have found a couple of .20's. I have a .25 and a ARF FS. Now i will start SR/.20. Please keep the help coming, 70+ is pretty late to teach, but with your help i will try. The guy is a inganeer and seems real sharp and motivated. H^^ Ron.
If you can fly and talk, you can teach. You have 60+ years of experience to communicate, and a guy who should, at least, be primed by his training to learn stuff. As long as he can get past you talking like an ordinary person and not an engineering prof, he'll do fine.
(If he does start to dig in his heels with statements starting with "but the aerodynamics books say..." then I suggest you reply with "yes, but I know that when I do this, then that happens. Then tell him that he's the smart one, it's up to him to find an explanation. Meanwhile, tell him that you're the teacher and if he doesn't want to crash, do it your way!)
-
Thanks to everyone for the advice. Bo has never flown or built. I will help him build the Skyray 35 and have found a couple of .20's. I have a .25 and a ARF FS. Now i will start SR/.20. Please keep the help coming, 70+ is pretty late to teach, but with your help i will try. The guy is a inganeer and seems real sharp and motivated. H^^ Ron.
Brett Buck came up with Skyray mods that help. To makes it stronger, replace the plywood wing ribs with 3/32" balsa ones. Also use a 2-wheel landing gear and no offset on the rudder.
Most fly it with .015x60' lines. Also use a handle that can be adjusted for a narrow spacing to make the controls less sensitive until he gets the hang of it.
Have a good time!!
George