RC conversion of CL Model

[Jon Novak]

Hello,  CL Builders and pilots.
I ran across Sparky"s  building videos the other day and ended up here. I have have been flying and building electric rc stuff for about 20 years. I have gotten out of building the past few years just due to the ARF market. but after seeing your videos I would like to build something.  I am very impressed with your building and love the lines of the fuse of the cl planes that you make.
It seems that there are also many more builders kits available for CL out there then for rc pilots today.   I was wondering if anybody here has converted a cl plane to rc.
I realize there will be some differences but I think they could be addressed. I really like the lines of these kits and would love to make one radio controled. Any Feedback would be interesting.
    keep up with the great building videos   

[Jim Svitko]

At one time there was an RC version of the Nobler.  It was, as I remember, a kit.  I never saw one in the flesh and I don't know what changes were made to the CL version to make it RC.  So, it can be done.

Regarding required changes, I would expect both wings to be equal length instead of the CL practice of making the inboard wing slightly longer.  Other proportions may change and structural mods might be necessary to accommodate the radio gear.

[Phil Krankowski]

If you build from plans
http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=21

Getting lost on Outerzone is an easy thing.

Yes, building RC from a CL kit is pretty easy stuff.  You have choices of full fuse and profile.  Flaps become ailerons.  Rudders need reworked, but most are pretty intelligently designed to start with.  In general the control surfaces on CL are much larger than those used for RC, so keep this in mind. 

Think about internal access to the fuselage or controls.  Thick wings can hide lots of things.  RC frequently uses less power than CL for similar size planes.

Phil

[john e. holliday]

I have seen an RC Nobler kit that was built and flown in the club I belonged to at the time.  It vaguely looked a CL Nobler.  It had the partial flaps working with the elevator like a CL ship.  Outer portion of what was a part of the flap were the ailerons.   It was also trike landing gear.   With the new modern and smaller radios I think a CL can be made into a RC plane if you build the wing with equal panels.   Remember most CL planes have longer in board panel.  I also don't think they need trike gear if a person knows how to fly RC.  By the way, the gentleman that had the RC Nobler had to be careful doing loops.  If hit the controls too hard for a loop, like we do for square loops, it would snap roll on him.  Other wise a good flying plane.

But I quit flying RC years ago when I had it with the local club.   Have built and flown one sport plane just to see if I could still do it and it was boring.

[Air Ministry .]

Was a radio control version of Wewages Junar ?? in Flying Models .

[Phil Krankowski]

Was a radio control version of Wewages Junar ?? in Flying Models .

http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7404

There is a really good search box on Outerzone.  Just use one word at a time in it.

Phil

[Trostle]

I really do not want to water down the enthusiasm here, but-----

Unless the desire to capture the lines of the CL airplane and make an RC version of it is paramount, there are various things to consider if a good flying RC ship is also desired.  And you will have to make a decision on what constitutes a good flying RC ship.  If it is just to bore holes in the sky with a neat looking airplane that looks like a neat looking CL ship, then fine.  But if some modicum maneuverability and desirable control response is desired, then the picture gets a bit more complicated.

Things like the appropriate amount of dihedral; vertical tail area vs dihedral; aileron areas and shape; tail volume/elevator areas; moments for desired maneuverability; optimal airfoils for the type of maneuverability desired; design for stability in the roll axis; design for stability in the yaw axis; and the list goes on.  Many of these items have been addressed by the more successful/popular RC designs.  Just putting RC gear in a CL ship may not be a very satisfactory solution.

Dave Gierke designed a pattern ship that took some of the appearance design cues from his good flying All American and Novi series stunt ships.  If you like the jet style stunt ships, this one should fill the bill.  He published the design in Flying Models sometime in the '70's, but I cannot find it in my library right now.  In the tradition that everything that Dave Gierke does, he does well and I am sure that the design performed satisfactorily.

Keith

[Tim Wescott]

What Keith said...

CL and RC have different needs, and the airframes that address those needs are different.  I have seen one RC 3D converted to CL that flew fairly well in competition -- but it wasn't ideal.  You could go ahead and build a CL stunt plane as RC, just making the wing panels even span.  It'll have a shorter tail than a typical pre-turnaround RC stunter, and it'll be much more heavily built than a typical modern 3D aerobatic plane.  But for just flying, it'll probably zip around the sky just fine.

[Jim Kraft]

I built and flew the Topflite version of the R/C Nobler back in the late 60's. It had quite a few changes from the original. The fuse was made much wider to accommodate the R/C gear of the day. It also had a thicker wing. I had an Enya 45 in it and flew it in many contests over a two year period. The coupled flaps and elevator made it a winner in loop roll and spin contests. It also held its own in pattern. I actually still have the plane in my basement.

We had a guy that learned to fly R/C with a Sig twister converted to R/C. He bought the plane from a control line flyer and converted it. It still had the off set wing. One day he was complaining how it would not track through loops very well. I picked the plane up to check the balance and told him to take out the wing tip weight. After that if flew well. I was in fact impressed that it flew so well. I would not have guessed it would make a good R/C trainer, but it worked for him.

So it depends a lot on the design whether it will convert well. It has been done many times. The Spinks Acromaster was done in both control line and R/C by the same designer.

[Mark Scarborough]

"take out the tip weight"
classic

[Brian Hampton]

Many years ago my son asked me to build an RC model for him based on my CL stunter. So I did . The main difference was the fuselage was a bit wider to hide all the RC stuff, the rudder was enlarged and, just for laughs, I made the ailerons slightly larger than the already quite large flaps and the entire tailplane was built as per CL. The nose was shorter to help balance the Enya 80X stuffed up front. All up weight was 5 1/2 pounds and wing area was 850 sq inches. In my son's hands it flew like one of those silly 3d models and had no vices whatsoever. On low rates and below half throttle even I could fly it! Oh yeah, control throws on both ailerons and elevator were the same as used on my CL stunter.

I just remembered some photos I had so this one probably gives one of the better ideas of size and construction.

[Air Ministry .]

The Wewage based r c thing was the BW Special , if I recall right .
also Lew Mc Farlane did a R.C. AND Control Line Akromaster , tho THat looks like a Akromaster rather than a classic stunt model .

There was also a R C Kit / Plan NOBLER back in the 60s .

AND those profile wierd built up R C akro hovery things proportions are similar to 60s pommy & OTS ships . Extreme things or something .