Flew Electric Stunter and was impressed.

[Randy Cuberly]

Anyone who has read comments about electric stunters by me on this forum know that I was less than impressed.  Today I flew John Callentine's electric  Stunter (it's a very well designed original by John) and I was very pleasantly surprised.  My contacts with electrics in the past have been less than impressive with stability problems and typical teething problems usually associated with something new.  I figured since I'm 75 I probably simply don't have enough time left flying stunt competitively to go through a whole new learning curve.
Hence my simple distrust of the whole idea.

However after flying John's today I have begun to change my mind and when I came Home I surveyed the "Electric Bear" that I started building about two years ago and have decided to finish it and give it a shot.   I'm a very conservative guy and I suppose that has played into my shyness for Electric, in spite of being an engineer.  (multi-discipline).

Flying John's airplane was truly a surprising experience for me.  No it wasn't perfect!  John's handle adjustment was not really what I prefer and the control speed is a bit faster that what I prefer...but the power was real close to perfect and the airplane didn't require any special considerations to fly very well.  By the end of the flight I was beginning to feel very comfortable with it!  I probably would have asked John for another flight but his batteries were exhausted...ahhh well nothing is perfect!

At any rate...The power takes getting used to because the airplane speed is really constant...and that's a bit different, and probably better but might take a bit of getting used to!

John is a great builder as all have probably witnessed from photos of his Mustang and Sea Fury.  John has been doing the electric thing for a couple of years and has it pretty well worked out in the power department.

No I'm still not convinced that Electric is much better than IC...It is however very interesting and at least as good as the best IC systems, if a bit different.

At least John's is!  It has convinced me to finish my Electric Bear!

Randy Cuberly

[Howard Rush]

Now add Igor's autothrottle and a TUT.

[Randy Cuberly]

Now add Igor's autothrottle and a TUT.

aaahhhhhh....Point well taken, but one thing at a time my friend!  Besides the electrical system in this airplane is already configured...It's actually quite a bit further along than shown in the photo and is still "old school" Hunt style stuff that I purchased over two years ago.  it's an E-Flite 25 motor, Castle Phoenix Edge Lite 50 ESC, Renekle Timer, and Hyperion 4 cell 3300mAh packs (5 of them).  Can an auto throttle be added to that or is it necessary to start over!

John's setup is probably "old school" also but is very reliable and works well!

Incidentally John's was not the first electric I've flown but the first one that really worked well.

Randy Cuberly

[Paul Taylor]

I like the Bear!
And your as young as you feel.
75 is the new 57. ☺️

You go Randy!

[Randy Cuberly]

I like the Bear!
And your as young as you feel.
75 is the new 57. ☺️

You go Randy!

Thanks for the encouragement Paul.  Guess I'll GO until the Go is all gone!   

Randy Cuberly

[john e. holliday]

And they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks.   Way to go Randy.

[Steve Helmick]

I used my electric starter today, and was really impressed with it!  Steve

[Randy Cuberly]

I used my electric starter today, and was really impressed with it!   Steve

Boy...talk about "old school"!    

[John Rist]

You might want to look at the KR timer from RSM.  It worked well for me and has proven to make the system burn-out proof.  A good feature for someone just getting into electrics.   It is hard to put the smoke back in once it comes poring out. The KR timer will work well with all of the other stuff you already have.  It also provides the constant RPM that makes an electric stunt ship work well.  If you do use the KR timer make sure that you have the speed controller in the normal mode rather then the RPM control mode, sometimes refereed to as the helicopter mode. You also might want to look at:

stunthanger.com > Electric Stunt > Gettin all AMP'ed up! > List Your Set Up...

 

[Alan Resinger]

Randy,
The active control system is pretty much stand alone.  The Castle ESC you have will not handle the switching speed necessary for the active control.  Igor's system requires the Jeti Spin 66 ESC which is no longer available from anyone but Igor.  Jeti makes them up in small batches for Igor which he then offers for sale.  His coordinated system (ESC, Active Timer/Accelerometer, and Jeti Box for programming both) costs about 250 Euros.  The system is anything but what I'd call a beginners system.  When Chris Cox and I were over at the Walker Stunt Ranch, I'd say we all three learned some things about how to set up the system.   
Welcome to electric stunt.
Alan

[John Cralley]

Randy, You say in reply #2 that you already have a Renekle timer. That would be a KR timer which has a governor function build in! Just be sure you do not set the ESC to governor mode which would conflict with the timer! I suspect you will be happy with your components and don't worry about upgrading to Igor's system for now.

[John Rist]

You might want to look at the KR timer from RSM.  It worked well for me and has proven to make the system burn-out proof.  A good feature for someone just getting into electrics.   It is hard to put the smoke back in once it comes poring out. The KR timer will work well with all of the other stuff you already have.  It also provides the constant RPM that makes an electric stunt ship work well.  If you do use the KR timer make sure that you have the speed controller in the normal mode rather then the RPM control mode, sometimes refereed to as the helicopter mode. You also might want to look at:

stunthanger.com > Electric Stunt > Gettin all AMP'ed up! > List Your Set Up...

 

I plead old age that I didn't pick up on the fact that you already have a KR (Renekle) timer.  You should be good to go with your setup.  Welcome to the world of no slime.

[Randy Cuberly]

Thanks for the info guys.  Yeah I plan to go with what I have at present.  I'm not likely to completely give up on slimers any time soon either.  I have a lot of them and a lot of experience in making them work well.  
I intended to get into the electric thing several years ago contacted my friend Bob Hunt about what to buy etc.  Bob gave me very good advice at the time for batteries, timers, chargers etc, and I bought all the "stuff".  About that time life "as it sometimes can" stepped in and delayed things a bit.  I did build the modified Bear shown in the photos but hung it on the wall and went back to flying my PA's and ROJetts, which I have a lot of!!!

The surprise in flying John's airplane is that it worked as well as my PA65 powered Shoestring!  Albeit a little differently.

I'm in the process of finishing the Bear so I can see if my initial reactions with Electric hold true for me.

For all their archaic messy smoke and slime...a PA65 or RoJett61 work pretty well.  Also I have 5 "slimers" currently in work!!!

 

Randy Cuberly

[eric rule]

Randy, call me before you set up the Castle ESC. You really have to "dumb it down" for it to work properly with the KR Governor. The problems always occur when both the governor and the ESC try to control a single function (like soft start or rpm). Just like at home you can not have two entities trying to control one thing. The KR Governor works because it takes over control from the ESC for rpm, start delay, soft start, flight time and rpm increase in maneuvers (sort of like the old 4-2-4 break or a modified tuned pipe). Like I said you have to "dumb down the Castle ESC's. That's why I suggest a very inexpensive ESC that does not have all the "bells and whistles".

When you have it set up correctly the KR Governor will give you a flight very similar to Igor's system (not identical but very close) with none of the adjustments that you have to worry about with Igor's world class control system.

[Randy Cuberly]

Randy, call me before you set up the Castle ESC. You really have to "dumb it down" for it to work properly with the KR Governor. The problems always occur when both the governor and the ESC try to control a single function (like soft start or rpm). Just like at home you can not have two entities trying to control one thing. The KR Governor works because it takes over control from the ESC for rpm, start delay, soft start, flight time and rpm increase in maneuvers (sort of like the old 4-2-4 break or a modified tuned pipe). Like I said you have to "dumb down the Castle ESC's. That's why I suggest a very inexpensive ESC that does not have all the "bells and whistles".

When you have it set up correctly the KR Governor will give you a flight very similar to Igor's system (not identical but very close) with none of the adjustments that you have to worry about with Igor's world class control system.

Thanks Eric,  I'll call you tomorrow.  Always nice to talk to you!

Randy Cuberly

[Steve Helmick]

I put a stock length rubber ducky on my piped plane and reduced the oil presidue to where it would be a one Kleenex job, at most. Just a little smutz on one side of the fuselage under the stabilizer and behind the tailwheel strut. No big deal...

Can't name names in this situation, but somebody had an almost unnoticeable slight prop strike on takeoff and their electric motor shut down...KR timer. I think I was launching, and I didn't notice the "bzzt" sound. Didn't know what to think about that.

Have seen a couple of electric motors smoked, many batteries smoked, prop drivers come off, motors not start, timers not set correctly, ESC's not set correctly, two motors come flying out of the front of the plane, and a few emergency shutdowns. It's a new game, and all the stuff needs to be correctly done. Details matter.    Steve

[Randy Cuberly]

I put a stock length rubber ducky on my piped plane and reduced the oil presidue to where it would be a one Kleenex job, at most. Just a little smutz on one side of the fuselage under the stabilizer and behind the tailwheel strut. No big deal...

Can't name names in this situation, but somebody had an almost unnoticeable slight prop strike on takeoff and their electric motor shut down...KR timer. I think I was launching, and I didn't notice the "bzzt" sound. Didn't know what to think about that.

Have seen a couple of electric motors smoked, many batteries smoked, prop drivers come off, motors not start, timers not set correctly, ESC's not set correctly, two motors come flying out of the front of the plane, and a few emergency shutdowns. It's a new game, and all the stuff needs to be correctly done. Details matter.    Steve

Careful Steve...The E-Gods will descend on you...they did when I mentioned things like that several weeks ago!   

Randy Cuberly

[John Rist]

I put a stock length rubber ducky on my piped plane and reduced the oil presidue to where it would be a one Kleenex job, at most. Just a little smutz on one side of the fuselage under the stabilizer and behind the tailwheel strut. No big deal...

Can't name names in this situation, but somebody had an almost unnoticeable slight prop strike on takeoff and their electric motor shut down...KR timer. I think I was launching, and I didn't notice the "bzzt" sound. Didn't know what to think about that.

Have seen a couple of electric motors smoked, many batteries smoked, prop drivers come off, motors not start, timers not set correctly, ESC's not set correctly, two motors come flying out of the front of the plane, and a few emergency shutdowns. It's a new game, and all the stuff needs to be correctly done. Details matter.    Steve

Prop strike and the motor quit is a good thing.  On a gaser a damaged prop could shake a good plane apart.   And yes I have seen some of the bad stuff you mention about electrics.  However their isn't enough space to list all of the failures I have seen with slimers.   Bad boring runs leads the list.  So both are great if done right.  Both are very bad if things ain't working!   

[Steve Helmick]

Maybe the prop strike threshold was set too low for me to notice? Is that adjustable? Everything else seems to be. I'm not saying e-power sucks, it just isn't what I want to do, and I'm probably not alone. If I wanted to win OTS or Classic at VSC, I'd certainly fly electric power.         Steve

[Mike Keville]

"....If I wanted to win OTS or Classic at VSC, I'd certainly fly electric power.         Steve

=====================================================
.....and be shunned by nearly everyone else there.

[Steve Helmick]

And rightfully so! I'll just stick to my tuned piped Shark 45 and Humongus.      Steve

[Scott Richlen]

Hey Randy: congratulations!!  Now you've joined the "modern world" and don't have to deal with those awful old slimey engines.     No more yucky, greasy LA-46s and PAs!

Speaking of engines - when does the fire sale start?   

Hey you guys: quit shoving and elbowing!  I asked first and I got first in line!  Hey buddy - don't try to cut in line in front of me!   

[Randy Cuberly]

Hey Randy: congratulations!!  Now you've joined the "modern world" and don't have to deal with those awful old slimey engines.     No more yucky, greasy LA-46s and PAs!

Speaking of engines - when does the fire sale start?   

Hey you guys: quit shoving and elbowing!  I asked first and I got first in line!  Hey buddy - don't try to cut in line in front of me!   

Hi Scott,
When it comes to engines I'm afraid I'm a bit of a "Hoarder" I seriously doubt that I'll sell any of the Pa's or RO Jetts.  I did sell a bit of "excess a few months age and really miss them    :'( .

I have airplanes framed up and waiting for most of the engines already.  If electric proves to be really better for me I will likely build another electric within a few months but right now it's just "wait and see".  One of the problems with being an Old and Conservative engineer is that changes in attitide and equipment come slowly! 

I guess I am looking forward to solving some new problems (new to me at least)!

Randy Cuberly

[Scott Richlen]

On the serious side, I see the electrics as a great way to be able to build a twin engine without all the hassle of trying to coordinate two fueled engines.  I'd either build an F5F Grumman Skyrocket (the one with the short nose, the Sheeks' model is not sufficiently scale-like for me) or a P-61 Black Widow.  I think that would be really cool.

I'm a little surprised that Paul Walker hasn't re-engined his B-17 for electric.

[Dwayne]

On the serious side, I see the electrics as a great way to be able to build a twin engine without all the hassle of trying to coordinate two fueled engines.  I'd either build an F5F Grumman Skyrocket (the one with the short nose, the Sheeks' model is not sufficiently scale-like for me) or a P-61 Black Widow.  I think that would be really cool.

I'm a little surprised that Paul Walker hasn't re-engined his B-17 for electric.

Check out Bob Hunts twin

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,19749.0.html

[eric rule]

I certainly agree with Scott about how electrics solve many of the problems with twin and multi-engine models. I watched Dave Sabon of San Diego fight with his Twin Pathfinder for well over a year trying to make two glow engines work. Although the Twin Pathfinder flew very well the problems trying to get the two glow engines to run consistently was making it impossible for Dave to even consider using the twin in a contest. He finally decided to build a new Twin Pathfinder and power it with two of the RSM 25 electric systems. We ran up a battery harness that allowed Dave to run both motors off a single battery. This made getting a good C/G easy. Now Dave flips the switch and both motors run flawlessly every time. According to Dave the Twin Pathfinder is the best flying model he has ever had. Here's a couple of picture of Dave's Twin Pathfinder.

[Brent Williams]

I certainly agree with Scott about how electrics solve many of the problems with twin and multi-engine models. I watched Dave Sabon of San Diego fight with his Twin Pathfinder for well over a year trying to make two glow engines work. Although the Twin Pathfinder flew very well the problems trying to get the two glow engines to run consistently was making it impossible for Dave to even consider using the twin in a contest. He finally decided to build a new Twin Pathfinder and power it with two of the RSM 25 electric systems. We ran up a battery harness that allowed Dave to run both motors off a single battery. This made getting a good C/G easy. Now Dave flips the switch and both motors run flawlessly every time. According to Dave the Twin Pathfinder is the best flying model he has ever had. Here's a couple of picture of Dave's Twin Pathfinder.

That is an awesome Twin Pathfinder!  What size battery does it use?  Any more pics or info?

[MikeyPratt]

Thanks for the info guys.  Yeah I plan to go with what I have at present.  I'm not likely to completely give up on slimers any time soon either.  I have a lot of them and a lot of experience in making them work well.  
I intended to get into the electric thing several years ago contacted my friend Bob Hunt about what to buy etc.  Bob gave me very good advice at the time for batteries, timers, chargers etc, and I bought all the "stuff".  About that time life "as it sometimes can" stepped in and delayed things a bit.  I did build the modified Bear shown in the photos but hung it on the wall and went back to flying my PA's and ROJetts, which I have a lot of!!!

The surprise in flying John's airplane is that it worked as well as my PA65 powered Shoestring!  Albeit a little differently.

I'm in the process of finishing the Bear so I can see if my initial reactions with Electric hold true for me.

For all their archaic messy smoke and slime...a PA65 or RoJett61 work pretty well.  Also I have 5 "slimers" currently in work!!!

 

Randy Cuberly

Hi Randy,
Well it looks like we both have about the same opinion about Electric & Glow engines.  I've flown a bunch of electric models and they all fly pretty darn good.  I'm not going to sell my glow motors yet (because they run so great).  I built and flown the K&R timer and the Hubin & Castle set up's, and so far, I really enjoyed them.  Next for me is to try Igor's Jetti spin set up and see how that works out.  I'm sure Igor"s setup works even better and see where it go's from there. 

See Ya old Friend,
Mikey

[Randy Cuberly]

Hi Randy,
Well it looks like we both have about the same opinion about Electric & Glow engines.  I've flown a bunch of electric models and they all fly pretty darn good.  I'm not going to sell my glow motors yet (because they run so great).  I built and flown the K&R timer and the Hubin & Castle set up's, and so far, I really enjoyed them.  Next for me is to try Igor's Jetti spin set up and see how that works out.  I'm sure Igor"s setup works even better and see where it go's from there. 

See Ya old Friend,
Mikey

Hey Mikey,
Good to hear from you!  Obviously I agree with you, and it fortify's my feelings since you always were a "sensible Cuss".   

I've been busy with other things (as usual) and haven't finished the Bear yet but should make it by the end of next week.

Come fly with us some time!!  I know...Long trip!

See Ya, my friend!

Randy Cuberly
PS:  We still miss Ya!

[MikeyPratt]

Mikey,
Good to hear from you!  Obviously I agree with you, and it fortify's my feelings since you always were a "sensible Cuss".   

I've been busy with other things (as usual) and haven't finished the Bear yet but should make it by the end of next week.

Come fly with us some time!!  I know...Long trip!

See Ya, my friend!

Randy Cuberly
PS:  We still miss Ya!
[/quote]

Randy,
Yea I get cussed at all the time, but I'm not sure about being a sensible cuss.    I hope to come down fly with you guy's as soon as I can.   I miss all the people there and the great flying weather.

Later,
Mikey

[eric rule]

Brent; I do not want to hijack Randy's thread. If you wish additional info about the Twin Pathfinder drop me an e note at rsm1rule@rsmdistribution.com