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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Matt Piatkowski on May 13, 2021, 07:23:17 AM
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Hello,
Because I could not get the contest and light 1/16" and 1/8" balsa in Toronto, Canada, I ordered from the National Balsa (https://www.nationalbalsa.com).
They wanted a $98.70 USD handpicking fee to select the balsa densities I wanted (5.5-7.0 lb./ft.^3) and I paid it.
The entire order was $497.13 USD.
I have received my order, in which 30% of balsa is in the 7.1 - 9.3 lbs./ft.^3. range.
Apparently, this is how National Balsa understands "handpicking".
I will contact them and request the reimbursement of $98.70 USD but who knows what logic they will use to defend themselves.
If I receive my $ 98.70 USD back with some sensible apology, the issue will be closed but I will never buy anything else from them.
If they refuse for whatever twisted and weird reason, I am contacting the US Better Business Bureau with this story.
I do not expect wonders but handpicking must be handpicking - this is what I paid for.
Thank you,
M
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Be aware
SIG changed their designation of contest balsa to be anything up to 8 lb wood. That lesson only cost me $100. US.
MAYBE Nationals contest balsa is now up to 8 lb as well. Might want to ask them what contest balsa means now.
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Years ago when I was still producing kits, I dealt with National Balsa.....ONCE.
Mike
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Hi Paul,
Nice to hear from you!
I feel my lesson with the National Balsa will cost me $98.70.
Something tells me that the era of balsa in model making is drawing to an end.
The times of structural foam, carbon-fiber laminates, and the specialized model factories are coming.
Why don't we have at least one Stunt Factory on this continent?
Have you had a chance to experiment a bit more with Tomek's TMT contra?
Stay Safe and Fly Safely,
Best Regards,
M
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I once had a major issue with a US seller fraudulently selling and then upon being challenged committing further fraud with a non refund ( one year post dated cheque for a lesser amount).
Upon being advised by me that her actions were a direct violation of US federal law for using the US postal system for committing an act of fraud crossing state lines and that this carries a minimum two year imprisonment penalty I got an immediate proper refund.
If any of your correspondence involved the USPS you might wish to bring this law to their attention.
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From what I understand, balsa isor has een used in the making of wind turbine blades and so as the number of wind farms goes up the demandfor blades also goes up. Thats is likely why good balsa is now hard to come by.
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Well I my self have been going to Hobby Lobby and getting some terrific balsa. Reason is my Hobby Haven has not gotten balsa in the sizes I need. D>K
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I have 60 + sheets of 1/16 x 4 sheeting, I believe 4 lbs. 20 grams or so per sheet? Maybe less, all from Tom Morris.
Plenty of 1/8 and 1/4 also from Morris.
I don't think I'll be needing all of them.
When I get the time, I'll place them in the classifieds. I can part with 50% of them.
Help you guys out.
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I have 60 + sheets of 1/16 x 4 sheeting, I believe 4 lbs. 20 grams or so per sheet? Maybe less, all from Tom Morris.
Help you guys out.
Hi Charles,
If you are weighing 1/16" x 4" x 36" sheets at "20 grams or so per sheet", that is NOT 4 pound balsa, it more like 8 pound "or so" balsa. You need a better density calculator or will need to be more truthful if you try to sell any of that.
Just trying to help you out.
Keith
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I dug up those sheets, one box anyway, I have another box someplace.
Many of the 1/16 are marked 17 and 18 grams but most are 20. I have a bunch of 1/32, a couple of dozen or so which I don't even remember buying. These are marked 6 and 7 grams.
I'm sure I have 3/32 sheets also.
When I have the time, I'll look for the other box.
Anybody using 1/32 for anything?
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Hi Charles,
If you are weighing 1/16" x 3" x 36" sheets at "20 grams or so per sheet", that is NOT 4 pound balsa, it more like 11 pound "or so" balsa. You need a better density calculator or will need to be more truthful if you try to sell any of that.
Just trying to help you out.
Keith
4, 6 or whatever balsa, I'm just reading the numbers at the top of the sheet. I've always asked Tom for light stuff.
The scale I have needs a battery. I'll weigh the sheets myself before I offer them. I don't want to misrepresent what I have.
I can keep it simple by just not selling any of it.
But the 16-17 gram sheets are really light. All I have is 4" wide sheets, I have no 3" sheets that I know of.
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I can keep it simple by just not selling any of it.
But the 16-17 gram sheets are really light. All I have is 4" wide sheets, I have no 3" sheets that I know of.
Charles,
You can "keep it simple" by just correctly representing what you have.
At "16-17" grams per 1/16 x 4 x 36 sheet, the density is close to 7 or 8 pound balsa. Not bad for some uses. 20 grams per 4" sheet starts to get a bit on the heavy side for most uses.
Note that I corrected my first post above to show your 4" wide sheets when I first showed 3" wide sheets.
Keith
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Charles,
You can "keep it simple" by just correctly representing what you have.
At "16-17" grams per 1/16 x 4 x 36 sheet, the density is close to 7 or 8 pound balsa. Not bad for some uses. 20 grams per 4" sheet starts to get a bit on the heavy side for most uses.
Note that I corrected my first post above to show your 4" wide sheets when I first showed 3" wide sheets.
Keith
I wish I had your way with words.
I have what I have and described it as such.
You've convinced me to keep my stash. Probably no interest in it anyway.
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I wish I had your way with words.
I have what I have and described it as such.
You've convinced me to keep my stash. Probably no interest in it anyway.
Hi Charles,
If you have any quantity of wood that measures round 8 pounds density, I am sure that there will be many who would be interested and would be appreciative and willing to give a fair amount given the availability and price of that kind of wood today.
You might want to look up a density chart so that you can accurately describe what you have if you decide to sell.
Keith
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This should make it easy
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Hello,
My problem with the National Balsa has been satisfactorily solved.
They refunded the handpicking fee and apologized.
This is a positive example of a company that takes the responsibility for its actions.
What can I do with the 7.1 - 9.3 lbf./ft.^3 1/16" and 1/8" balsa?
What parts of the full-size competition stunt plane I can use it for?
I was thinking of cutting the wing ribs and/or fuselage ribs using such balsa and remove 70-80% of the wood (please see the attached).
Will it be ok. weightwise for the competitive full-size stunt plane or not?
The definition of the competitive full-size stunt C/L plane is: span 59-62", RTF weight: 60-65 oz., wing area with flaps: 650 -720 in^2.
Regards,
Stay Safe and Fly Safely
Matt
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I have 60 + sheets of 1/16 x 4 sheeting, I believe 4 lbs. 20 grams or so per sheet? Maybe less, all from Tom Morris.
Plenty of 1/8 and 1/4 also from Morris.
I don't think I'll be needing all of them.
When I get the time, I'll place them in the classifieds. I can part with 50% of them.
Be sure to label it properly, "Medium-Hard Balsa, 8.48 lb/cu ft". Defining contest balsa as 4-6 lb cu ft, your sheet would need to weigh <14 grams. Typically a very good piece of 1/14x4x36 usable for sheeting is around 11-12 grams.
Your wood would be usable for some purposes like fuse sides or ribs, if you were careful to cut away large holes for the leadouts, It would not be suitable for the normal uses of 1/16 on stunt planes, like sheeting a foam wing, far too heavy for that.
Given you, er, "situation", such wood is perfectly acceptable. For the rest of us, who actually participate in the hobby of control line, such distinctions matter. It can be dealt with, but people should know what they are getting.
Brett
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7.09 would be the weight in grams of a 3" wide x 36" long sheet of 4lb balsa in 1/16". 9.45 is the weight in grams of a 4" wide sheet of 4lb balsa.
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What can I do with the 7.1 - 9.3 lbf./ft.^3 1/16" and 1/8" balsa?
What parts of the full-size competition stunt plane I can use it for?
I was thinking of cutting the wing ribs and/or fuselage ribs using such balsa and remove 70-80% of the wood (please see the attached).
Will it be ok. weightwise for the competitive full-size stunt plane or not?
The definition of the competitive full-size stunt C/L plane is: span 59-62", RTF weight: 60-65 oz., wing area with flaps: 650 -720 in^2.
Regards,
Stay Safe and Fly Safely
Matt
An I-beamer comes to mind. Maybe something along the lines of Windy's Spitfire? You can definately use it up on one of those. A few sheets will go a long way in an I-beam wing.
Steve
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I looked at my sheets again, same box.
I have no 1/32 sheets. These are actually 1/16 x 4 X 36 and weigh between 6 to 8 grams as labeled by Tom Morris.
What I thought was 1/16 is actually 3/32, these are 17 to 20 grams. The 1/8 are 18 to 23 grams.
And I'm looking right at them. Says on the sheets, "BUD NOSEN MODELS, contest balsa," in light red ink really close to the top.
The other box has more of the same and a bunch of thin plywood. Maybe a half dozen or so sheets of 1/32 ply and other sizes I'm not sure of.
So, no 1/32 but I have 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, and a few pieces of 1/4 and 1/2.
I'll look for the other box.
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When I built my I beam models I never used contest balsa for ribs I did use it for the 3/16 fuselage sides. My Juno's came out 47-49 ounces. Even the stab was built up so there was no use for it.
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Matt, check your PM.
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FWIW, there is a link to a balsa density calculator right on the top bar of Stunthanger.
Follow the link, enter the dimensions and weight in whichever units you want, and it spits out the density.
It is best to measure the actual dimensions of the wood, rather than go by the nominal sizes. They can sometimes be quite different.
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FWIW, there is a link to a balsa density calculator right on the top bar of Stunthanger.
Follow the link, enter the dimensions and weight in whichever units you want, and it spits out the density.
It is best to measure the actual dimensions of the wood, rather than go by the nominal sizes. They can sometimes be quite different.
This is quite true. A wood provider may not do it intentionally, but to make sure they can sell every board foot they can you may find that all three dimensions can be fudged sometimes. Us old timers are used to just buying it and using it and buying it and I'll say that I don't measure stock as a habit but I have accidently found sheets that are thicker, thinner, wider, narrower, longer and shorter. If the weights are that critical for your project you should check the dimensions. Imagine what the indoor free flight guys go through!! I heard a rumor once about Jim Richmond, a multi time indoor national and World Champion. Sort of the Paul Walker of microfilm!! I had heard that he was so hard to beat because he had two or three pieces of 1/16" and 1/32" sheet that was less than 4 pound density and of unheard of firmness for that weight. He, of course, sliced every inch of wood that goes into one of those creations so you don't us a whole lot unless you make a lot of mistakes. We are talking about a model abut 24" in span and length and weighs less than a gram, then the ballast it UP to the 1 gram minimum weight limit. He supposedly built all of his run of championship models from the same couple pieces of ridiculously exceptional pieces of wood. At the same time, he got one of the last hoards of really good Pirelli rubber that was available before the guy that made it died and took the recipe with him. He's one of the guys I used to always read about in the mags as a kid and wish could have met in person.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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I just recently ordered about 500.00$ u.s. dollars of balsa from easy built model company, it's very good quality and you can order it in contest grades, they have my thumbs up.