Limitation -Info request for Dale Barry's downsized Fancher Imitation

[Brent Williams]

Looking for some info on the downsized Imitation that Dale Barry designed back in 1990.  I have read a few comments on the plane here on stunthanger and over on clstunt, but I have only seen the fuzzy picture from the 1990 AMA plans bulletin.  Looks like there was an article written on it in the Nov 90 Model Aviation.  Anyone have a scanned copy of the Limitation article handy? 

Any pictures of completed Limitations and/or personal experience with this plane?  I really dig the looks of the full size Imitation but I need smaller planes. 

[Steve Fitton]

I was beaten by Dale and Derek's Limitation many times in profile at places like Huntersville.  Does that count as personal experience? 

It flew great from what I remember.  I think Alan Buck might have the original plane these days.  When Dale had it the power was a side exhaust PA-40.  I honestly never knew there were plans for it(!)

[Derek Barry]

AMA website has it listed in the November 1990 issue. The plan number and cost from AMA is (No. 670 $14)

The original Limitation (the one in the picture) was mine. It was built around a Tudor wing and everything else was shaped to look like Ted's Imitation. Dad has built a number of Limitations over the years all of them a little different. Somewhere in the late 90's or early 2000's Dad built one around a Geiskie Nobler wing. This is the one that Steve is talking about and yes Allen Buck did have it for the last few years of it's life (it was probably the best one we ever built). The two most recent Limitations (one still on the paint stand at Dad's shop) are built around Randy's Vecor 40 wing. These seem to fly very well too. They will fly well with a number of different engines but my favorite was with the prototype PA 40 that Randy loaned us for a few years.

Derek

[Dale Barry]

The first and fourth Limitations were powered by Magnum GP40s. Number four had the PA40 in it for a while and number five had an Aero Tiger 36. As far as balance and feel go the weight of the 40s actually flew the best. The worst had a Fox 35, the power was there, but it didn't penetrate as well. The first was something I threw together to get Derek from Beginner to Intermediate and even though it flew well I always thought it needed more wing area, that's why I went to the Gieseke Nobler wing. That is probably the best combination for this size plane, even though the Vector 40s work well, too.   

[John Kelly]

   ... Hey Dale an Derek...

[Tim Wescott]

Derek needed a 40 sized flapped plane to move from Novice to Intermediate?  I did it with a Skyray...

[Steve Fitton]

Derek needed a 40 sized flapped plane to move from Novice to Intermediate?  I did it with a Skyray...

Yes, but they did it 25 years ago, before Brett published the paper on the Skyray 35 and the FP-20.  Most people were still hanging Fox 35s on them with decidedly mixed results.  Some people (Ron Burn and Jimmy Paul, to name a couple) stumbled onto the Flitestreak FP-20/25 setup but never published their findings.  Finding a decent profile/engine combo was nowhere near as easy as it is now.

[RknRusty]

Yes, but they did it 25 years ago, before Brett published the paper on the Skyray 35 and the FP-20.  Most people were still hanging Fox 35s on them with decidedly mixed results.

That's very true, Steve. When I started beginner last October, it was with an old Goldberg Shoestring with a twitchy 1/2A control horn. I joined Stunthangar and basically had a cookbook recipe for first place with a Skyray in my next contest in May, and I was off to Intermediate this October just like that. I would have never figured it out on my own. And I even competed semi admirably in profile this time too.
Rusty

[Steve Fitton]

That's very true, Steve. When I started beginner last October, it was with an old Goldberg Shoestring with a twitchy 1/2A control horn. I joined Stunthangar and basically had a cookbook recipe for first place with a Skyray in my next contest in May, and I was off to Intermediate this October just like that. I would have never figured it out on my own. And I even competed semi admirably in profile this time too.
Rusty

That's really the great thing about these forums (well, that and being able to flame people on the debate forum)...  I wish when I came back to control line in 1996 that I knew about internet forums.  Instead I had to essentially learn everything the hard way, especially since my mentor was old school and thought learning the hard way was the best way.  With the amount of information available today the learning curve for a beginner  can be almost straight up.

I have to confess, though, that I saw the unpublished FP-20/Flitestreak setup in that 96-97 timeframe and never recognized the potential for it to help my own flying.  At the time they had the FP in a super overweight foam wing flite streak that was equal parts epoxy/foam/wood. The engine ran fast and smooth but the plane overall was not great.  At that exact same time frame I was trying to learn the pattern with my very light Skyray 35 with a stock Fox 35 and stock muffler which ran dreadfully on that Skyray.  Being new to the hobby and being super dense, it never occurred to me to combine the FP-20 with my Skyray.  

Instead I entered the wilderness of retimed FP-40s and many, many, many crashed airplanes(!)