Primary Force

[Dennis Moritz]

Does it cut a corner? How have people set them up?

I'm about to build the kit. I was drawn to this design when I realized it looked  like a grown up profile sport ship. I've had good luck with those. The ARF might be a somewhat different, but I'm sure experiences with it are relevant to the kit still available from Mike Pratt.

Wuzz up?

Thanx,

Dennis

[Alan Hahn]

Check out the comments in the Review section.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=10.0

[Dan McEntee]

   I have had mine in the air since February, and have been pleased with it so far. I built mine absolutley stock as per the instructions so I could tell people who come into the hobby shop and ask what they can expect.  Mine is powered with an OS LA.25, and so is my son's model. Ours came out at 38 ounces or so, and required 2 ounces of lead in the nose to balance. If I build another one, I'll probably opt for a bigger heavier engine to help the balance and for the extra horsepower. The LA has been adequate, but it doesn't have much in reserve.
  I set line length and handle spacing as per instructions and it suits me fine. I have been watching the double wrapped leadouts at the bell crank and so far no signs of failure. Stock tank has worked out OK, but is not a full 4 ounces if you need it. It also needed a lttle bit of flashing carved out of the opening for the stopper to go in properly. I swing an APC 10-4 prop, but haven't had the chance to experiment with any other brands yet. I tweeked the landing gear down on each side to give a little bit more clearance for the prop and better opperation out of grass.
  The airplane flies very well with a very good corner. I would think all you would need to concentrate on when trimming yours is handle spacing to suit your own comfort level. I did the pattern with mine on the first flight with an APC 9-4 on it, but it needed more prop, so on went the 10-4. It only took 4 flights for me to get it trimmed close enough to place third in our Ice-O-Lated stunt contest last February.
   I think you'll like it.
  Good luck and have fun,
  Dan McEntee

[peabody]

I would venture that the PF is probably the "soundest" of the ARF/ARCs ....SIG and Mikey know their stuff. I have seen a couple and they seem to fly really, really well......

[Warren Wagner]

Does it cut a corner? How have people set them up?

I'm about to build the kit. I was drawn to this design when I realized it looked  like a grown up profile sport ship. I've had good luck with those. The ARF might be a somewhat different, but I'm sure experiences with it are relevant to the kit still available from Mike Pratt.

Wuzz up?

Thanx,

Dennis

Dennis,

Sorry, but I can't really answer your first two questions directly.  But, I'll ask you .....just how sharp a corner do you want to "cut"?  Can you fly the complete pattern?   Are you a beginner....intermediate....advanced flier?

Depending on what your skill level is, the "PF" may be just perfect for you.

You say you are ready to start the kit, and unless you are an advanced flier, I say go ahead....build the kit and fly the pants off the "PF".  It's a good design, and you can advance a long ways with it.

Here is a pic of a "PF" built and flown by a local flying buddy...neat looking plane in the air.

What are you going to power yours with?

Cheers.

Warren Wagner

[steve dinerman]

Denis
If you want to borrow my pf you can.Just give me back the engine when you are finished.let me know when you are going to the Field and i will bring it along.
steve

[Dennis Moritz]

It'll be powered by an FP40 or Tower 40 with an extra head gasket or two, toned down some. I asked Mike Pratt
about whether to move the engine back a half inch or so, he said not needed. His favorite power for the plane is a thunder tiger 36. I asked about the corner because I've seen a few fly in advanced that did not cut a corner well. IMHO. Flyer or plane? Seems it was the flyer. Obviously I'm not an expert flyer, wouldn't be asking about this aircraft if I was. I'm making the transition to intermediate. Plan to use the plane learning the full pattern. I'll compete with it, if it works out well. I like the idea of trimming a plane without flaps. Makes it simpler. I flew a Twister, Galaxy and Flite Streaks in beginner the last two years. When the rudder got knocked off my Twister trying outside squares, I went to the Galaxy. More a sport plane than anything else. I was surprised at how well I could score using the Galaxy, which flew a bit faster than optimum. Also I cut decent outside squares with this design. This lead me to the PF. More wing area, fatter airfoil. I went for the kit, instead of the ARF, so I can true up the wing myself and do the doublers etc. the way I like, watch out for warped this and and that... Also simpler to stick in Tom Morris controls.

Thanx to all,

Dennis

[Dennis Moritz]

Hey Steve! Thanx.

[Dan McEntee]

. I'm making the transition to intermediate. Plan to use the plane learning the full pattern. I'll compete with it, if it works out well. I like the idea of trimming a plane without flaps. Makes it simpler. I flew a Twister, Galaxy and Flite Streaks in beginner the last two years. When the rudder got knocked off my Twister trying outside squares, I went to the Galaxy. More a sport plane than anything else. I was surprised at how well I could score using the Galaxy, which flew a bit faster than optimum. Also I cut decent outside squares with this design. This lead me to the PF. More wing area, fatter airfoil. I went for the kit, instead of the ARF, so I can true up the wing myself and do the doublers etc. the way I like, watch out for warped this and and that... Also simpler to stick in Tom Morris controls.

Thanx to all,

Dennis

  Hi Dennis; That is exactly what Mike Pratt had in mind when he designed it. He told me, " I had a few things in mind that I wanted to try, and darn it,it all worked!" or something like that. Pick your favorite power plant that is consistant and that you are comfortable with, that's as an important part of the program as anything. Balance it like the book says, set the controls up like the book, and you'll see what we mean.
    Good luck and have fun,
  Dan McEntee

[john e. holliday]

Good to hear you are building the kit.  I built mine in my lap, no jigs.  Use the Poly-Urethane (Gorilla) Glue for the fuselage.  Follow Mikes instructions to the letter and you will be happy.  Mine started with Fox 35 Stunt.  Switched to LA 25 after watching Dan McEntee in St Louis last Feburary.  Memorial Day weekend the wind smacked it against the pavement in level laps.  Flattened the landing gear, broke tail skid and shattered prop.  Still in one peice and still flying.  DOC Holliday

[Dan McEntee]

OK 0900 this morning. Set up the repaired Primary Force ARF with an OS .25 FP.  It would not rise off the gournd. The pants stuck in the soccer filed grass. Parked it, grabbed the new one with  an OS .35 FP . It leaped into the air. steady as a rock, did nice corners.  BUT it ran out of fuel half way into the flight. Now to re rig the plastic tank that came with it. As it now sits, it is set up for uniflow, but I think I need some softer tubing.  All in all a fun plane for practice.

   Hey Ty; We had that trouble with ours also. I finally tweeked the landing gear down to raise the nose a little bit, and got out of the gras fine after that. It's a combination of the pants and the prop hitting the grass I think.
  The .35 FP obviously has the xtra horse power to do the job. If and when I build another,even though I have had good results and can recommend te LA .25,  I'll probably opt for the bigger engine just to balance the plane better, and have the xtra horse ower if needed.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Steve Holt]

I've had two engines on my Primary Force ARF - a GMA special OS 25FSR and a Thunder Tiger 36.  The 25FSR is turning an APC 10X4 and the TT36 a 10.5X4.5.  It flys really well with either engine, but I prefer the .25 high rpm run.  I left the wheel pants off for grass flying.  I have another that I plan to strip of covering and bush the leadouts in the bellcrank.  Will probably Monokote the wings and tail and Lusterkote the fuselage.  First engine try will be an OS25SF with a 10X3.5 carbon prop.  If that doesn't work, the FSR will fit the same mounts.
STeve

[Dan McEntee]

I've had two engines on my Primary Force ARF - a GMA special OS 25FSR and a Thunder Tiger 36.  The 25FSR is turning an APC 10X4 and the TT36 a 10.5X4.5.  It flys really well with either engine, but I prefer the .25 high rpm run.  I left the wheel pants off for grass flying.  I have another that I plan to strip of covering and bush the leadouts in the bellcrank.  Will probably Monokote the wings and tail and Lusterkote the fuselage.  First engine try will be an OS25SF with a 10X3.5 carbon prop.  If that doesn't work, the FSR will fit the same mounts.
STeve

   Steve; Did the ball bearing engine balance about right without ballast in the nose?  If and when I do another, the engine will be bigger/heavier to help with ballance. I'l have to see if I can find one of those cheap just to play with. The LA had enough power, but not much extra, and I had to add 2 ounces of nose weight to balance the airplane.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Dennis Moritz]

Steve Dinnerman a club member (Philly Flyers) just gave me a Primary Force outfitted with an FP40. Great. It points and grooves, turns more precisely than the Galaxy and Twister I was flying. A bigger better sport plane morphed into a stunter that feels like it will do me well in my next phase of learning stunt. Only had three flights on it, but the comfort level is high. Will use it in my last few beginner contests. Had a great time today. Perfect weather, a slight breeze blowing one way. Unlike the typical treacherous (and amusing) Philly conditions. Thanx Steve!

[Steve Holt]

Dan,
When I started the Primary Force ARF, I planned to use a FPP25 like Mikey had on his original.  I found the same balance problem you had.  I had this ball bearing 25 in a box on the shelf and so I tried it.  Dang thing weighs over 8 oz. without muffler.  CG was still a little aft, so I used a TT36 muffler and CG was right on.  Engine is pushed all the way aft in the motor cut-out to get the prop location right for the spinner.
Steve

[Bob Reeves]

From reading this thread sounds like I should keep my Saito 30 four stroke and use it if I ever get around to building my P-Force. If it responds to a 7 pitch prop anything like my 40 did it should be awesome..