What engine would you choose?

[Doug Moon]

So, let's say the current engine you are using is no longer in production and parts are fast becoming scarce. 
You decide to go to a new engine. 
What engine would you choose and why?

[Tim Wescott]

That would depend a lot on the engine I was using currently.

Go electric?

[Derek Barry]

You just have to keep your eyes open and find a replacement. They are out there!

Derek

P.S. NO on electric! You will never get away with those 5.7 sec. laps with an electric!!!

[john e. holliday]

What ever is available at the time.   

[stephen hollier]

Doug,
I would buy the engine manufacture, and the engine will never disappear nor will the parts. 

[Bob Reeves]

Easy question..

Saito 62 with a reverse cam and modified RC carb. All the power and consistency of anything being used (short of the 70'somethings) plus the advantage of running a reverse pitch prop like the electrics are doing.

If you by chance come to Tulsa for our Setember contest you are welcome to fly the Latency, it has a reverse 56 but will give you an idea of what the 62 can do.

[Crist Rigotti]

Go electric!

[proparc]

Specifically following the question means that the Saito 72 is no longer in production and I have to switch.

No brainer: Saito FA 62 RC version. I want full control over the RPMs at break-in. OS max F plug.

[PJ Rowland]

I'd develop my own engine..

A UHP74 perhaps?

[Lauri Malila]

 Try this.

 Some folks may disagree but that's mainly because they don't know how to use it. L

[Doug Moon]

Try this.

 Some folks may disagree but that's mainly because they don't know how to use it. L

Tell us more about it. 

[Gene O'Keefe]

RO Jett .76......excellent service from Dub and engine is equal to (or better some would say) than a PA .75

[proparc]

Try this.

 Some folks may disagree but that's mainly because they don't know how to use it. L

Educate us Lauri.

[SteveMoon]

That is a Discovery Retro 76. Not sure about the discrepancy in the numbers.
It says 78 on the motor, but it is listed as a 76 on the Discovery website.
Doesn't matter, I want one.

Steve

[Lauri Malila]

 Oh, sorry.

 It's the Retro .76. I'm still flying with the first 2 that Yuriy gave away, and find them extremely good, powerfull & easy to use. Yuriy is constantly working to improve it. I have also the latest version in my new model but haven't tried it yet.
 There was some minor problems in the beginning, like bent conrods and carbon buildup untill we found the correct oil type, but in the newest ones they are not an issue anymore.
 The "problem" in Retro's is that they tend to work well only when set up as Yuriy does it. This includes:

 -correct fuel with correct oil.
 -correct propeller.
 -correct plug.
 -correct compression.
 -correct tank layout & positioning
 -correct venturi.

 I have fixed quite a few DR .60´s for various people and usually the only thing to do is to reset factory parametres and clean/blueprint the engine. I also change the plastic venturi to an aluminium one but it's just for structural reasons. Also the original needle valve can be replaced with a PA one.
 The only usefull modification in some older versions is to modify the muffler as per Orestes' instructions, but even that is not absolutely necessary.
 The mistake many people do with the .76 is that they try to make it run as the .60. It usually leads to stability issues. It likes to run with higher and more constant rpm.
 The .76 also requires more synthetic oil in the mix (15% synth. 5% castor), while 5% of synth. is enough to keep the .60 clean. We have found the Motul Micro to be the best synthetic oil for this engine. Many other synthetics cause detonation. Other oils may work, but it's good to do some back to back testing with all-castor fuel to know if they work or not.

 L

[NED-088]

NO on electric! You will never get away with those 5.7 sec. laps with an electric!!!

A properly set up electric power train doesn't rely on certain level lap times to produce sufficient line tension throughout the schedule.

Supposing it does, however, is a classic error made by many IC - only pilots.

[Matt Colan]

Brett Buck RO-Jett 61 or a 76

[Tom Niebuhr]

Doug,
I know that you were talking to R.O. Sunday. He will help you and work with you, to get a setup that you like.

[Wynn Robins]

' LECTRIC ....

get with the programme!!

[Randy Cuberly]

The RO Jett 61's and 65's run as good as anything around and are available.  The Belko engines from Ukraine also run very very good but are a little quirky in mounting configuration etc.  My .56 long shaft runs as good in a Geo XL as any engine I've seen but does in my opinion require a fairly light airplane in the 55 to 60 oz range and must be run according to Serguay's set up instructions with no nitro.  3.5 oz of fuel for the pattern!!!  Great steady power.  Purist Stunt power!!

Randy Cuberly

[Larry Cunningham]

Why, a Bentley W12, of course. (Or is it a VW?)

L.

"Yeah, I know I'm ugly... I said to a bartender, 'Make me a zombie.' He said 'God beat me to it.' -Rodney Dangerfield

[Steve Fitton]

Doug, I KNOW we can scrounge enough PAs to keep you going!

Or perhaps the Invincible VF 40?

Or you could go to the Dark Helmet side, errr, electric.

[Brett Buck]

Doug, I KNOW we can scrounge enough PAs to keep you going!

Or perhaps the Invincible VF 40?

   The Jett 61 BSE works well  and you can still get them. I suggest getting the "brett version" since that is what I had success with.  A 40/46VF is a good choice, too, and there are plenty of those around. Any of them will be adequate power for any normal airplane.

    Brett

[DanielGelinas]

Fox 35 stunt of course. Like Harley's, they will never disappear
-Daniel

[wwwarbird]

So, let's say the current engine you are using is no longer in production and parts are fast becoming scarce. 
You decide to go to a new engine. 
What engine would you choose and why?

 Kind of vague here Doug. It would really depend on the size of model and the desired displacement.

[Brian Hampton]

Enya 61CXLRS PRO, it's comparatively cheap, light, and runs beautifully even on zero nitro fuel. With the ringed piston and Nikasil type brass liner it should last almost forever .

[Brett Buck]

Kind of vague here Doug. It would really depend on the size of model and the desired displacement.

  Well, for sake of argument let's say he was currently running an AAC rear-exhaust 61 from made in Georgia and for some reason couldn't get parts any more.

     Brett

[Derek Barry]

  Well, for sake of argument let's say he was currently running an AAC rear-exhaust 61 from made in Georgia and for some reason couldn't get parts any more.

     Brett

Pretty sure that it is the 65... I am sure if we look hard enough we can find a few parts here in Georgia to fix the problems. It would be good for at least a few more years.

I think Doug has found what he is looking for anyways.

Derek

[Derek Barry]

and engine is equal to (or better some would say) than a PA .75

 

[steven yampolsky]

RoJett series is an easy choice. Jett Engineering makes them.

I've ran 51,61 and 65 and they are all good. 61 is the odd one in the bunch: 51 has the same power as 61 plus 51 uses less fuel. 65, on the other hand trades fuel consumption for consistency as weather changes. With 51, I find it that I have to adjust the needle more as humidity or temerature changes throughout the day. 65 just does not care for atmospheric changes: same run every time. All three engines have wonderful flight regime characteristics and are silly simple to setup. Having flown them with and without Brett Buck's sprinkler mod, I have to say that the mod is a must. It just makes the motors incredibly consistent.

Another easy choice are large Stalker's. They are just as good as Discovery Retros and cost a lot less. The company is very stable and ever since partnering up with Kaz Minato, they are very easy to obtain in the US. Interesting bit of info on Stalkers. Back in 2004, while at Muncie for WC, I met Russian flier Eugene Yakovlev. At the time, he was the least experienced(and youngest) member of the Russian F2B team. For years he flew with DR's in his models. About three years ago he made a switch to Stalkers. Ever since he's been able to improve his scores and as a result has won Russian NATS two years in a row. Yep, he picked up his second NATS title literally two days ago.

[alan roadknight]

just sold my super tigers [sorry Tom Lay ] gone electric ,  now i can go out and just fly, not constantly trim and tune motors no more bad , rich , or lean motor runs go electric...

[Allan Perret]

I am wondering why no one who suggested ROJetts has mentioned the 67.    
RO told me the 67 is the best Stunt engine in his lineup.

Hey Doug:   
I have a low time (65~70 flights) rebuilt (by Randy) PA65.     
20 or so bench runs and never a lean flight..
Will trade for a NIB RoJett 67.

If you need a back-up motor for the Nats this year let me know.
I could ship it to you tomorrow, you can return it after the Nats.

[proparc]

Kind of vague here Doug. It would really depend on the size of model and the desired displacement.

What in the world could be possibly vague about the question?

[Derek Barry]

If you need a back-up motor for the Nats this year let me know.
I could ship it to you tomorrow, you can return it after the Nats.

This is why I love stunt!!!!


Derek

[Doug Moon]

If you need a back-up motor for the Nats this year let me know.
I could ship it to you tomorrow, you can return it after the Nats.

Allan,

That is a really nice offer.  I really appreciate that, more than you know.  But these motors now are a little more difficult to find, not impossible, but a little more so than several years ago and due to that reason I cannot take you up on the offer.  If I were to somewhow damage it beyond repair I can't replace it.  And the past two seasons I have seen my fair share of tarmac incidents.  Hopefully that is over for the time being.  I sure do thank you for that offer.


Doug


I know my initial post was vague.  I kind of did that on pupose.  iwanted to see what people are doing and thinking about.  No matter the size of the plane or level or involvement. 

Keep posting stuff its fun to read about all the different ideas and options.

[Allan Perret]

But these motors now are a little more difficult to find, not impossible, but a little more so than several years ago and due to that reason I cannot take you up on the offer.  If I were to somewhow damage it beyond repair I can't replace it.  And the past two seasons I have seen my fair share of tarmac incidents.  Hopefully that is over for the time being. 

I am aware of the situation with the PA's. 
What's the odds you might break 2 motors at the same Nat's.   
Even if you did, that's OK.  The offer stands.

[wwwarbird]

What in the world could be possibly vague about the question?

 If you read the original question at the top of the post, it doesn't say anything about which engine or which plane he's dealing with.

 Sounds like they've got a plan now anyway, no biggie.

[Gary Anderson]

Hi,
The RoJett 61 Brett Style or OS 40 VF, OS 46 VF, OS 40 FSR or the great OS 46 FSR. Randy still has parts for some of the OS's and if ya can't get parts after ya wear her out buy another one? There is a lot of the OS VF engine out there and not a bad price for a great engine.

[billbyles]

This is why I love stunt!!!!


Derek

Kinda like the O.S. .46VF back-up engine that went to the world's as a primary engine back in 1996...?

[PJ Rowland]

OS 40 FSR - Ohh yes I can just see Doug using that 

Good 20+ years ago.

Current day readily avaliable engine (if PA 61+ is not able to be sourced) : ROjett BSE 61 Buck timing ; Having not seen one but hearing great things : ROJett .67.

Im personally running PA 75 - 5 Port Eather Pipe.

[Doug Moon]

Oh, sorry.

 It's the Retro .76. I'm still flying with the first 2 that Yuriy gave away, and find them extremely good, powerfull & easy to use. Yuriy is constantly working to improve it. I have also the latest version in my new model but haven't tried it yet.
 There was some minor problems in the beginning, like bent conrods and carbon buildup untill we found the correct oil type, but in the newest ones they are not an issue anymore.
 The "problem" in Retro's is that they tend to work well only when set up as Yuriy does it. This includes:

 -correct fuel with correct oil.
 -correct propeller.
 -correct plug.
 -correct compression.
 -correct tank layout & positioning
 -correct venturi.

 I have fixed quite a few DR .60´s for various people and usually the only thing to do is to reset factory parametres and clean/blueprint the engine. I also change the plastic venturi to an aluminium one but it's just for structural reasons. Also the original needle valve can be replaced with a PA one.
 The only usefull modification in some older versions is to modify the muffler as per Orestes' instructions, but even that is not absolutely necessary.
 The mistake many people do with the .76 is that they try to make it run as the .60. It usually leads to stability issues. It likes to run with higher and more constant rpm.
 The .76 also requires more synthetic oil in the mix (15% synth. 5% castor), while 5% of synth. is enough to keep the .60 clean. We have found the Motul Micro to be the best synthetic oil for this engine. Many other synthetics cause detonation. Other oils may work, but it's good to do some back to back testing with all-castor fuel to know if they work or not.

 L

Just to be clear you are saying the 76 wants 20% total oil (15% syn,5% castor) ??

On the 60 what is the best total oil % and break down %s of the mix??

Thanks

[Larry Cunningham]

Heck, any of several properly sized electric motors - just load ESC personality firmware to emulate whatever IC engine you're yearning for. You can even get the "after square eights" runaway if you're missing that.

L.

"Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads. And I'm gonna need 'bout ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker State." -Erwin Fletcher

[Lauri Malila]

Just to be clear you are saying the 76 wants 20% total oil (15% syn,5% castor) ??

On the 60 what is the best total oil % and break down %s of the mix??

Thanks

 Hi Doug.

 Yep, the max. castor % for the .76 is 5%. The rest (15%) is synthetic.
 The .60 runs best with all-casstor fuel (20%) but you must be prepared to clean the piston/liner and muffler every now and then. 5% of synthetic in the oil mix is enough to keep the engine quite clean.
 I know the Italians have used all-synthetic fuel (20% Motul Micro) in their .60's quite succesfully. Their engines were prepared by the late Franco Ballesio. He paid lots of attention to bearing fit and piston/liner /case fit.
 I have tried all-synth in the .76, it runs OK but not as well as with 5% castor addition. I use all-synth for emergency cleaning; a flight or 2 with it if the engine shows signs of carbon buildup in very hot weather. It usually helps for a while, untill I have time to disassemble the engine and clean piston/liner properly. L