Author Topic: Early Event Change Notification (Read 3313 times)

PatRobinson · « **on:** November 25, 2007, 05:09:53 PM »

Hi Guys,
This post is to provide early notification that Metrolina Control Line Society has at my urging changed from offering Classic stunt to a new event that we , in our club, will call "Nostalgia-79". The only change from Classic is we have extended the cut-off date for designs to Dec. 1979. This change will be noted in all the advertising for all future Huntersville contests.

The purpose for this early a notification is so that if any of our competitors has ever wanted to compete with a 70's airplane, we want to give them this advance notice ,in order to provide them with adequate building time, to build a 70's plane for our 2008 contests, if they so choose. The Classic era designs will continue as usual and compete directly with the 70's airplanes.

I think, at least one other southeastern contest uses similar rules so it is hoped this may provide some regional rules consistency for our competitors.

Everyone in the club seemed to agree that "it is time" for a change and we hope, that our competitors will enjoy having some additional great designs, that they can choose to compete with and enjoy.

Best Wishes for 2008,
Pat Robinson

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2007, 06:00:05 PM »

Hey! Thats pretty cool! Having venues at Marietta and now Charlotte makes it worthwhile to build a 70s vintage plane!! Only problem is the vast variety to choose from!

Will Davis · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2007, 08:29:18 PM »

Steve,
Our club ,MCLS thinks it is past due to open the timeline to allow some of the Nostalga 79 planes compete in a designated class . The Older Classic legal planes will still be in compliance with the timeline and will still be competitive in this class.

We hope this drives the competition in this Timeline of Models and Modelers to get out some unique designs not normally seen at local contest and some of the one off designs that alot of people have ..

.. Stan Powell's 1978 Dove with one of his great running K&B 40 engines is on the bench , Can't wait

William

L0U CRANE · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2007, 08:36:35 PM »

Wiliam, HI!

I hope the -79 Event works well, and has so large an entry that we should consider it an indication that the "traditional" Classic cut-off and the 1979 cut-off are EACH well enough supported that they EACH deserve separate events...

Models from 1952-1970 would still be eligible for -79. Heck, models from ?-1979 should ALL still be available. There are a few Aldrich 1952 Noblers, possibly some Barnstormers or All American, Sr's. that can fly the modern pattern D**n well. They are included, no?

Great idea: keep us posted?

Will Davis · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2007, 09:02:34 PM »

Hello Lou,

As in OTS and the current Classic Stunt event , any model built prior to the cutoff date will be eligable . We have several Aldrich 52 Noblers here on the east coast that can give any competitor a run for their money . Not to mention some of the unflapped OTS planes that have been cleaning up in Advanced /Expert .

I would love to have such a turnout in the event that we will be required to split it to the Classic and Nostalga 79 class. That will be discussed after the 2008 season . But right now it will be combined to just on Class .. Nostalga 79

Thanks for the input

Will Davis

Arch Adamisin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2007, 11:30:01 PM »

I just wish this event would have been approved as it was originally discussed. Anything that was at least 25 years old. Now, you want to think about how many designs that would bring into the event? If not 25, than 30, or 35?

Arch

PatRobinson · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2007, 12:39:12 AM »

Hi Arch,
I understand your feelings and our club discussed the rolling cut-off date concept, but we didn't reach concensus on that, however, we all did agree that change needed to occur, so I think Nostalgia-79 is a good first step to be more inclusive. We want to judge the results of this change during next year before we consider doing anything else.

You know Arch, if clubs in a region or all across the country decided to make similar rule changes to the 1953+ era design qualifications, and enough clubs participated you would create a new de facto standard for the event, irregardless of any other ruling. This might produce a "bottom up" demand for rule change from participants. Each club has the final power to change rules for their unofficial events. If contest entries demonstrate an interest in these modified events, then over time it will be this interest and demand that may eventually lead to rule changes. The first step is in the hands of each local club. Just a thought.

Arch, you are right about all the wonderful designs this change will make available Stunt Machine, Stiletto's (multiple versions), Genesis,( 2 versions) Juno and the list of designs goes on & on from the US and from around the world.
Since this rule proposal to MCLS was my idea, I guess I will volunteer to go through my magazine collection and create a preliminary list of qualifying designs for the club to use as a starting point.

I am looking forward to to seeing what happens next year.

Arch thanks for your input. You Adamisin guys have a way with words.
In this case, brief and to the point.

Thanks again.

Pat Robinson

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2007, 02:30:06 AM »

Tulsa is thinking along the same lines, might not be a bad idea to follow the crowd so to speak. We are also talking about opening up P-40 to basically any displacement engine and I am going to propose we use Marvin Denny, Randy Powell's BOM/appearance point proposal in the PAMPA classes.

Will know more after the December club meeting...

Bill Little · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2007, 02:53:35 AM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on November 26, 2007, 02:30:06 AM

Tulsa is thinking along the same lines, might not be a bad idea to follow the crowd so to speak. We are also talking about opening up P-40 to basically any displacement engine and I am going to propose we use Marvin Denny, Randy Powell's BOM/appearance point proposal in the PAMPA classes.

Will know more after the December club meeting...

Hi Bob,

I think the Profile idea is a good one, personally. WE have never had a displacement cutoff in our region, and I understand the NW has dropped the .40 requirement, also. This does open the event to some more airplanes (Mo Best??), and does not significantly increase costs (if that was a consideration). It even allows a person to use his LA 46 on a Cardinal Profile and the like.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2007, 07:21:46 AM »

The reality of the '79 cutoff, at least from what I saw in Marietta, was very few if any post 1969 planes, so at first I don't see an impact on the event. But, Given two southeast venues now doing those rules, you may finally see some 70s planes start to show up. I'm excited by the prospects. Now, where are my Patternmaster plans?

Bill Little · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2007, 08:30:48 AM »

Thanks for the Heads Up, Pat. I think it is a great idea.

Bill Little <><

PatRobinson · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2007, 08:54:28 AM »

Hi Guys,
Hi Bob, to build on what Bill Little said about our profile event; a look at our attendance numbers in that event says it all. We had 18 entries at the fall contest which is only a little above our normal turnout for this event. Simply put, "If the rules are more inclusive then more guys can enter".

If you are assigned to judge profile at our contest then you know you are going to have a long and busy day.

Bob, as far as our Nostalgia-79 event change goes, there just seems to have been a change in attitude and guys who may have resisted the idea 5 years ago, now think it is time for a change. If you guys in Tulsa are thinking the same way then maybe this is a bigger trend in attitude change than I might have originally thought. I guess time will tell.

Randy Smith, did a post on Stunt Hanger in which he said something like , "If a 30 year old car is considered a "classic" , then it is hard to tell someone that their 30 year old stunt design isn't a"classic". That is not a perfect quote but the idea stuck in my head and so I made a proposal to my club to make a change which was unamimously accepted. Ed Ruane should be credited with the name "Nostalgia-79" which was also immediately accepted.
The nice thing about this name is, in 5 years we can easily change it to "Nostalgia 85"if we choose to change the event. The only thing that needs to change is the number.

Hi Bill,
You and I had talked about this whole idea earlier and to use a "southernism" "We gotter done". Translation for the rest of the world "Mission accomplished".

Bill, I think the VSC , "classic" at the NAT's and PAMPA rules should be left alone at this point because "real change" can and will occur only at the local club "grass roots" level and this kind of bottom up support of enough participants is what will eventually make changes occur nationally. Just my 2 cents. What do you think ?

Bob and Bill great input guys! Thanks!

PS. To Bill, I was just typing a reply to your earlier post. (see above)

PS. To Steve, maybe you and other competitors might do some lobbying with clubs from Virginia to Florida and Alabama to adopt similar rules so there will be some regional rules consistency for the benefit of the competitors who travel and attend all the events. Steve if all the contests in a region like the southeast all use the same design qualifying criteria then competitors that live in that region would have more incentive to build a post 69 airplane.
This is good for the competitor and also good for sponsoring clubs attendance.
Should be a Win-Win situation all around.
Once again, thanks guys,
Pat Robinson

Bill Little · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2007, 09:09:34 AM »

I have always wanted an excuse to build Vic Macaluso's 1970 F-8 Crusader!

Will Davis · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2007, 12:06:49 PM »

Bill,

You now have that excuse , I can think of several models that we can build that will be competitive for this class , and be used for Skill classes too.

Will

EddyR · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2007, 04:02:24 PM »

E-gads now I will be building another Juno. This will be my 5th one. I am going to build the early one with a bubble canopy and flat flaps.I bet you didn't know about that one!
Ed

Bill Little · « **Reply #15 on:** November 27, 2007, 07:45:44 PM »

Quote from: Ed Ruane on November 26, 2007, 04:02:24 PM

E-gads now I will be building another Juno. This will be my 5th one. I am going to build the early one with a bubble canopy and flat flaps.I bet you didn't know about that one!
Ed

Yes, I know about the *pink* Juno, but I wasn't sure exactly when Billy built it. I thought he built it is the '80s as a "square one" project. ?? ?? ??

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #16 on:** November 27, 2007, 08:55:36 PM »

1979 cut-off, heck I don't HAVE to build anything, I still got the originals!

(BTW, great idea!

)

PatRobinson · « **Reply #17 on:** November 27, 2007, 10:05:42 PM »

Hi Dennis,
You never know what treasures are just hanging out on someones wall that with the right rule motivation could once again take to the sky.

I know your tongue was firmly in your cheek with your humorous post but like all good humor underneath there is usually a core foundation of truth.
So Dennis Well Said!

I would bet you are not the only guy that has a plane on their wall that would qualify for a 79 cut-off date.

Dennis, thank for your kind words for the change I proposed. So far, it seems the response to the idea is positive. It almost seems, that this is an idea "who's time has come" and I was just the guy who brought it up.

By the way, are you and your brother Arch competing to see who can create the shortest post that still delivers an effective point of view? Both of you seem to be very good at it.

Dennis,Thanks for your input.

My club MCLS has 2 members who are the clubs resident experts on all things Werwage. Bll Little and Ed Ruane who have built more than their share of Bill W's wonderful designs. So Guys, you have brought up a Juno that I and perhaps many other guys are not familiar with - So, Do you guys have any pictures of this particular airplane that you could post.

My fellow club member William Davis has also weighed in with his perspective on the cut-off rule change which I appreciate.

So, once again, I would like to thank all you guys for your interesting input.

Thanks ,
Pat Robinson

Bill Little · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2007, 08:55:53 AM »

Well, Brother Pat, I must admit, with much chagrin, that I am not current with my dues, so technically, I am not a member................... :cry:

I used to spend a LOT of time talking with Billy. A man I am very happy to call friend. I just hope to see him again, soon.

Sorry I could not make it to Watt's. My health is not as good as I am trying to believe it is, yet. But that will change, I will make sure of that!

Not sure EXACTLY what plane I will build for the upcoming Nostalgia-79 event, but I will have one! Macaluso Crusader, Stunt machine, Stiletto, Genesis, Juno, Dove, F-105 (

).................... so many!

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2007, 04:19:55 PM »

The bummer is that I'm two thirds of the way through building another classic plane, and then need some new Pampa planes, but I really feel like building a Genesis for the new season in classic. The time is just not there, but I wish I could support the new rules change right now!

EddyR · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2007, 06:25:10 PM »

Steve I believe you were looking for a Classic plane that you could use for Pampa. I think this opens the way for many to use one plane for both events. I also have a JD Falcon wing and tail finished for classic. I would sell it cheap if some one wanted it. I may build another Juno as it is a nice compact plane.With the new ABC mods on the ST/46 all the old motor problems should be gone. It would be a great Pampa plane also. My last one I sold a Brodak with only 15 flights on it. Here is a picture of my 2nd one and the only one I built close to stock.My 1st 3rd and 4th ones were modified a lot. The 1st one was the best.
Ed

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2007, 07:30:56 PM »

Quote from: PatRobinson on November 27, 2007, 10:05:42 PM

Hi Dennis,
You never know what treasures are just hanging out on someones wall that with the right rule motivation could once again take to the sky.

I know your tongue was firmly in your cheek with your humorous post but like all good humor underneath there is usually a core foundation of truth.
So Dennis Well Said!

I would bet you are not the only guy that has a plane on their wall that would qualify for a 79 cut-off date.

Dennis, thank for your kind words for the change I proposed. So far, it seems the response to the idea is positive. It almost seems, that this is an idea "who's time has come" and I was just the guy who brought it up.

By the way, are you and your brother Arch competing to see who can create the shortest post that still delivers an effective point of view? Both of you seem to be very good at it. Dennis,Thanks for your input.

Thanks ,
Pat Robinson

Pat:
I was DEAD SERIOUS! I AM restoring my TriStar, flown at the 1974 NATs. Aside from the age the airframe is in very good condition. I did not fly it a lot because I was in college. Afterward it was superceded by other airplanes. I had to replace the built in fuel tank, and am fixing a few other things along the way...

Will Davis · « **Reply #22 on:** November 28, 2007, 08:06:37 PM »

Talk about "Spirit of the Event" !!! This is a perfect example of getting different models involved in competition again.

Thanks

Will Davis

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #23 on:** November 28, 2007, 08:51:18 PM »

Quote from: William Davis on November 28, 2007, 08:06:37 PM

Talk about "Spirit of the Event" !!! This is a perfect example of getting different models involved in competition again.

Thanks

Will Davis

Hey Will:
Can you also limit it to V-Tails???

PatRobinson · « **Reply #24 on:** November 28, 2007, 09:19:33 PM »

Hi Dennis,
Yep, I knew that you were serious about your airplane qualifying under the new rules even though you used your usual humor in the post. I would bet you are not the only one with an original airplane that would qualify for Nostalgia-79. The "TriStar" looks to be a special design. Is there anything more you have to do to it other than refinish?

Hi William, you know we might end up with an original wall queen or two like Dennis's TriStar that will once again take to the sky, at the contests next year. that would be terrific, and I look forward to it.

To Steve Fitton, we would love your participation with a 70's plane but sometimes a guy can only do what he can do. Either way we will welcome you back.

Ed, those are some interesting Juno's. Thanks for posting them.

Thanks to Dennis, William , Steve and Ed for replies it was interesting as usual. Thanks to all .

PS. Dennis, I didn't see anything about v-tails when I proposed this here rule.
What are you looking for "The Adamisin Cup" or something! ?

- Jeeez

- Or perhaps you are looking for v-tail bonus points? Oh, My, My, My. Have a good evening Dennis.

Pat Robinson

Will Davis · « **Reply #25 on:** November 29, 2007, 07:36:56 AM »

Dennis,

I don't know what limits are to put on Nostalga 79, But when we use fidelity points as in classic, I think a original 29 year old model will get maximum points for fidelity . Can't get any better than that !

Will

peabody · « **Reply #26 on:** November 29, 2007, 07:45:59 AM »

When John Miske conceived OTS, the designs were not very old. In fact the first POTS event was held in 1965....meaning that designs that WERE NEW just 13 years prior were legal!
That there has been a stagnation of Classic cut-offs is mystifying....this seems like a step forward...

edit typing errors

PatRobinson · « **Reply #27 on:** November 29, 2007, 10:38:21 AM »

Hi Peabody,
That is something I didn't know. It kinda gives an interesting perspective on the whole topic of vintage contests, by whatever name they are called.
Very interesting! Thanks for the information.
Pat Robinson

Bill Little · « **Reply #28 on:** November 30, 2007, 09:09:07 AM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on November 28, 2007, 04:19:55 PM

The bummer is that I'm two thirds of the way through building another classic plane, and then need some new Pampa planes, but I really feel like building a Genesis for the new season in classic. The time is just not there, but I wish I could support the new rules change right now!

Steve, Just do like you have done before and put that Classic plane on the rack and start a Genesis. The Mk II (or was it III??) that was .46 powered would make a more than adequate PAMPA plane for anything short of Open Top 5 at the NATS. You could even use your DS 60 Lite in it! AND, it is a foam wing plane (I have cores from Bobby). What else could you want??

(anyway, it's got to do better for you than the Avanti's did!

)

Bill Little · « **Reply #29 on:** November 30, 2007, 09:11:45 AM »

Quote from: William Davis on November 29, 2007, 07:36:56 AM

Dennis,

I don't know what limits are to put on Nostalga 79, ~~But when we use fidelity points as in classic~~, I think a original 29 year old model will get maximum points for fidelity . Can't get any better than that !

Will

Uh.......... Will............ "WE" (Huntersville Meets) don't use "Fidelity Points" OR Appearance Points in Classic, is this going to change?

??

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #30 on:** November 30, 2007, 12:09:16 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on November 30, 2007, 09:11:45 AM

Uh.......... Will............ "WE" (Huntersville Meets) don't use "Fidelity Points" OR Appearance Points in Classic, is this going to change???

...Not really, just BONUS POINTS for Dennis's uh I mean Denny's V-Tails!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #31 on:** November 30, 2007, 06:46:29 PM »

Hey Dennis, I just may have to build another "Sweet Pea". The first one didn't even make a lap before it was rekitted to scrap balsa. Still haven't figured out what happened. DOC Holliday

Will Davis · « **Reply #32 on:** December 01, 2007, 07:47:47 PM »

Bill,

On the fidelity points issue in Classic, You are correct , At the Huntersville NC Contest for the last couple years , we have not given Appearance or Fidelity points .

The fidelity points issue can be brought up, discussed and voted on if necesssary at the next club meeting .

Along with the V-Tail points ....

Will