Why would the great Lou Andrews do that?

[Joe Ed Pederson]

I bought a photocopy of the Quillow's Baby Barnstormer plans from Tom Dixon.  It's a pretty sophisticated design for a 1/2A model.  The leading edge is sheeted top and bottom and the inboard wing is 5/8" longer than the outboard (I understand the reason for that).  The plan shows where and a minimum amount of tip weight (1/8 oz.) to add. 
 
What I am wondering about is why Lou would design the model to fly clockwise (leadouts in the right wing) and why he would make the front line the "Up" line.  I'm assuming that Quillow's set the plans and model up to fly clockwise and with the front line "Up" because that's the way Lou designed it.  And if that's the way he designed it, there had to be a good reason to do it that way.

My guess on the clockwise flight is to have the "P" factor of prop to aid in keeping the lines tight.  it seems line tension is a big concern in the design since the engine thrust and rudder have a good deal of offset to help in line tension.

I don't even have a guess as to why the front line is the "Up" line.  The control horn is on the top of the eleveator on the Baby Barnstormer, whereas most models with the wing below the stab (as the Baby Barnstormer does) have the elevator horn below the elevator thus making the rear line the "Up" line.

I had thought to change the model to counterclockwise flight, but I began to wonder if Lou set it up for clockwise flight because there were sufficient advantages to clockwise flight for a small model.


Anyone have any ideas about what Lou was thinking/up to?


Joe Ed Pederson

Cuba, MO

[Tony Drago]

If i remember correctly. The front lead out is up because the Barnstormer control rod came out of the top side of the fuselage and the control horn was on the top of the elevator. Flying clock wise a lot of lefties flew that way. If one does not like the set up just reverse  the lay out to the conventional way and fly counter clock wise. But then again is the conventional way the right way?

[Dan McEntee]

  Hey Joe;
    Clockwise might have been the way Lou learned how to fly. We all tend to do things the way we were originally taught. George Aldrich flew clock wise, so does Jerry Phelps, and several other people I have met in the hobby. one tjhing a lot ofo them had in common, they were all from the Cleveland area originally, and was told that there was a good parks program back when they were all kids, ( I'm assuming just after the war,) and the guy in charge of the program flew that way, so that is the way everyone learned. Yes, you have the advantage of the engine torque helping you out. A bigger mystery to me is how did the vast majority of us get started on flying counter clockwise??
   As far as the leadout location, it is believed by some that having the down leadout in back helps with line tension on outside maneuvers.  That slight little tug from the control imput pulling the tail in, and nose out, instead of vice versa. Some think it doesn't make any difference. I think that by itself it is no great magic but combined with a bunch of other little things help to make a well trimmed model.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[john e. holliday]

My first plane was the A-J Aircraft Firebaby which was set up for counter clock wise flight.  I think speed was the first planes I seen flying clock wise.  Was told it was engine/prop torque helping the plane stay out on launch.

[Steve Helmick]

Yup, it's how he learned. Harold deBolt also flew clockwise, and you can ask around the OTS department about how much fun it is to fly an All American counter-clockwise. Some guys use LH cranks and LH props to keep those things out on the lines on takeoff...I think the inboard wing is 4" longer than the outboard, and NO tipweight. Tipweight does A LOT to keep the lines tight on takeoff...acceleration yaws the nose outward with tipweight. Physics!

And it's Guillow's, pronounced "Gweelows". Not sure what part of the World the name came from...France, maybe?  Steve 

[Dave Hull]

But if you have flown counter-clockwise enough to get comfortable, don't assume that the skill will translate into a successful flight going clockwise. It must be something like switch-hitting in basebase: easy to watch; confident you know how to do it; not good results when you try.

A friend tried clockwise and made it all of a quarter lap before the crash. The flight involved a lot of wavering, wobbling and up and down. I have the pieces hanging on the garage wall....

Does anyone have personal experience from trying to go CW after years of practice CCW? I'd like to hear it....because just like my friend, I always assumed that I could do it.

Dave

[Dan McEntee]

But if you have flown counter-clockwise enough to get comfortable, don't assume that the skill will translate into a successful flight going clockwise. It must be something like switch-hitting in basebase: easy to watch; confident you know how to do it; not good results when you try.

A friend tried clockwise and made it all of a quarter lap before the crash. The flight involved a lot of wavering, wobbling and up and down. I have the pieces hanging on the garage wall....

Does anyone have personal experience from trying to go CW after years of practice CCW? I'd like to hear it....because just like my friend, I always assumed that I could do it.

Dave

   I believe this has been discussed before and Bob Hunt has done it. I think it was with a plane by Gene Schaefer? One of the more prominent east coast guys at the time. I think he did it by turning the handle over or something crazy like that. Maybe Bob will see this ans fill in the details.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[john e. holliday]

I've been trying to learn how to fly left handed.

[Dave Hull]

Doc,
I think it is a lot easier to learn to fly both left-handed and clockwise if you are flying someone else's plane. That's probably how Bob managed it--he flew Gene's plane?

Dan,
I thought the "trick" was if someone learned to fly with their hand-motion reversed, ie. the top line when pulled was down, that you flipped the handle over and just went to it. I was going to let a friend fly my carrier plane, but then remembered he flew with the handle upside down. With all the offset and other business going on with one of those three-line handles, we just called the whole thing off. Made my head hurt....

McSlow

[EddyR]

I flew both directions since the 1950’s    It is easy as long as the plane is built to give up in the direction it is going.  Flying a counter clock plane wise gets confusing  if trying to fly it clockwise.  Flying a plane that is built to fly clockwise is easy. I built several old time models to fly clockwise and has no problem.  I won the old time at the KOI three times flying clockwise.
Ed

[Joe Ed Pederson]

   It is easy as long as the plane is built to give up in the direction it is going.   
Ed

Ed,
  I don't understand this statement.  Could you please clarify?

Joe Ed

[Brett Buck]

Ed,
  I don't understand this statement.  Could you please clarify?

Joe Ed

  I am not sure either, but I think he means "canopy is up, wheels are down" and that when you give it up, ig goes towards the canopy side.

   Brett

[Dane Martin]

Does anyone have personal experience from trying to go CW after years of practice CCW? I'd like to hear it....because just like my friend, I always assumed that I could do it.

Dave

I don't have years of experience, but I can fly with either hand. If I'm just out sport flying doing loops and 8's, someone from the outside looking in might not be able to tell the difference between my right and left. I've not tried to fly the pattern left handed. In fact, it has actually hurt my pattern flying learning curve more than anything because first thing I do when I get to the handle is pick it up with the wrong hand.
I flew Speed first. That's how I learned control line. I actually have a couple proto speed and a perky set up to fly clockwise, and I fly those left handed. Like Joey Mathison told me, it'll do nothing but mess you up. Lol

[Tom Luciano]

   I believe this has been discussed before and Bob Hunt has done it. I think it was with a plane by Gene Schaefer? One of the more prominent east coast guys at the time. I think he did it by turning the handle over or something crazy like that. Maybe Bob will see this ans fill in the details.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

If I recall correctly.
I believe Bob just flipped the plane over and flew the pattern inverted.

Best,
Tom

[Ara Dedekian]

         They only clockwise flight I have is on the Veco Brave(?) below. An antique store find, I patched the silkspan, cleaned up the Duromatic/McCoy 19 (with Dawn Power Dissolver) installed a uniflow and flew it. To get it down in one piece I had to listen to myself shouting out each control input. Visual/motor coordination was on 'OFF'. Walking out of the circle was almost harder I was so disoriented.

         Ara