Anatoly Kolsenikov's KA 10

[Bill Little]

Hi All,

A few years ago, Tom Dixon published an article, with plans, for the KA10 in Model Aviation.  From reading the article, it appears Tom did it through friends in Europe, etc., but not actually from Kolesnikov.  For example, Tom stated he did not know the construction, thickness, etc., for the stab/elev.  No problem as far as the way the article was handled, just having that much info was good for a plane that was a World Champion and not a US model, which is easier for me to find out about.

Anatoly was the World Champion in 1986, but was the model actually the KA 10 or an earlier version like a KA 5 or 8?

Can anyone add some information on this plane?  Just whatever you know about it, have you built one/how it flys, etc..

Thanks!
Bill

[PerttiMe]

Bruno van Hoek has been asking about Kolesnikov's KA-10 too. Apparently, he thinks the Dixon plan doesn't get it quite right.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1288656&page=6

I think the Yatsenko brothers might have some idea.
http://discovery-aeromodels.com/en/yuriy-yatsenko-classic-model.html

Another lead is the name of Glen Allison in the UK
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17233211&postcount=91

[Allen Brickhaus]

Fred Krueger of the Chicago are just completed a nine year build on a new KA-10 type model.  I will have pictures of it in a future FM column.

Allen Brickhaus

[Bill Little]

Bruno van Hoek has been asking about Kolesnikov's KA-10 too. Apparently, he thinks the Dixon plan doesn't get it quite right.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1288656&page=6

I think the Yatsenko brothers might have some idea.
http://discovery-aeromodels.com/en/yuriy-yatsenko-classic-model.html

Another lead is the name of Glen Allison in the UK
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17233211&postcount=91

Thanks, Pertti!

I have tried in the past to log into rcgroups as a member or such, but no luck.  Maybe they already know me?

Bruno is a great guy, I will try to contact him, we just exchanged some PMs.

I have emailed a few times with Yuryi Yatsenko, he is very helpful to me. 

And on facebook I have another friend from the ex-USSR, but communications are hampered by our language differences.  Great guy to email with, but hard to communicate, not his problem, but mine.  I have absolutely NO RUSSIAN language skills!   He gave me the impression that it wasn't a KA "10" that was used for the '86 WC, rather an "8', or one of the other earlier versions.  And I have absolutely NO CLUE as to the differences.

I am not personally connected to Glen, maybe I should try to contact him, also!

Thanks for the information!
Bill

[Bill Little]

Fred Krueger of the Chicago are just completed a nine year build on a new KA-10 type model.  I will have pictures of it in a future FM column.

Allen Brickhaus

Thanks, Allen!  I hope Fred is doing well.   Things are getting better here and my "Nursing skills" have definitely been improved upon!  I might be getting some actual "Bench Time" shortly.

You may remember about 15 years ago when I started a series of "World Championship Builds", or not.   That was what started me on the trail of contacting Mr. Louis Grondal, etc., etc..  I got the T-Bird, Spacehound, and Stuka built.  Got laser cut ribs for eh AMA Special, just have waited on it for when I could devote "special time" to it, it became a very special project to me.  Also corresponded with Kerrko Kervahuo (I know I butcher that spelling! LOL!!) about Juhani Kari's Nakke.  He sent me a snap shot of the actual 1964 WC Nakke as it is today.  Juhani's club still "owns" it!  So the quest continues.......

Along those lines, I have been collecting plans for other WC planes, the USA ones are very easy to obtain, of course, but others can be "iffy".  Thanks to Kim D., I have the original Skywriter plans, and the KA 10 (or which ever version it actually was) has always held a certain interest to me.  Hopefully I can track down a lot more information about it!

Thanks, and I hope to see you soon.
Bill

P.S.  Talked with Jim V., and the Airon is really getting close, just got to buy a new compressor! LOL!!  I am hoping it really turns out extra nice.   Then someone I know should be getting a framed up Atom! LOL!!

[PerttiMe]

Kerrko Kervahuo (I know I butcher that spelling! LOL!!)

mumble mumble...

It is Kerkko Kehrävuo.
(don't forget the dots on the "ä". Not sure how to get them on an American keyboard, even though my full name contains an "ä" too.)

     

[Bill Little]

mumble mumble...

Thanks, I spell Kerrko's last name kinda like I pronounce it.   I got to see him in person at Brodak's a few years ago.  Very nice gentleman!  I really enjoyed the "pictures" in the Finnish Model magazines he sent me.  No way I could translate the text! LOL!!

Bill

It is Kerkko Kehrävuo.
(don't forget the dots on the "ä". Not sure how to get them on an American keyboard, even though my full name contains an "ä" too.)

     

[proparc]

Thanks, Pertti!

I have tried in the past to log into rcgroups as a member or such, but no luck.  Maybe they already know me?

Bill

I will tell them that you allowed that RCUniverse Solidworks thread to be posted here. I am sure they will hook you up now.

[Bill Little]

I will tell them that you allowed that RCUniverse Solidworks thread to be posted here. I am sure they will hook you up now.

Thanks, Milt!

Bill

[John Leidle]

  Bill,
  I have 50% built KA 10 hanging in my basement  it's been hanging since 1999     built around a Tiger .51  I-Beam  I'll let  you know more when we hit 65.
  john

[Bill Little]

  Bill,
  I have 50% built KA 10 hanging in my basement  it's been hanging since 1999     built around a Tiger .51  I-Beam  I'll let  you know more when we hit 65.
  john

LOL!!!!!!!!  Thanks, John.

I -Beam, HUH?

Bill

[NED-088]

Bruno is a great guy, I will try to contact him, we just exchanged some PMs.

Ha..... Wait until you really get to know me....
On topic>
I'm 99% shure the 1986 plane was the KA-8, I've seen it with my own eyes (I flew that WCh in Pecs, Hungary) and I recognize it from the Yatsenko site photo (it also has a wing gear). Check this report http://www.vicstunt.com/Aerobatics/World/1986/1986-World-Aeromodeller.htm
The KA-10 is bigger and has the fuse gear, I've seen that one in Blenod (WCh 1990)
I agree, Yuri is the guy to ask for.
That said, maybe Igor Burger knows something too.

I want to stress that in spite of my critical notes on the Dixon plan, he must be given big credit for going that extra mile and giving us the bigger part of the puzzle already solved.
I think the shape of nose top, cowling, belly and fin are different.
Now my mind being stirred, I do remember Gerard Billon having a KA-10 in French colors that, if I understood correctly, was made for him by Anatoli when initially he just asked for a plan.....
But I haven't seen Gerard in ages...  
On the Photo site of Claudia Kehnen there is a blue Kazach KA-10 that flew at the WCh 2008.
It's looking eerily similar to the red KA-10 on the Blenod picture...

Update:
Guess what I've found:

[steven yampolsky]

Bill,

I am not sure if this helps but there are two prominent Russian pilots that put KA on their models: Anatoliy Kolesnikov and Anatoliy Korchagin. Their design styles differed a lot. I am attaching two photo's of Korchagin's. The differences are quiet obvious.

The picture of the open engine compartment is of the KA-8 model.
On the picture with four models, top right is Kolesnikov's model from 1978.


P.S. I couldn't resist to post a picture from 1980 WC with a familiar face. I still can't believe he went all electric on us!
P.P.S I can help you out with the Russian.

[steven yampolsky]

Here's the recent photo of Anatoliy with his borther and son

[Bill Little]

Thanks, Steven!  Glad you popped in on this thread.  I am concerned with the Kolesnikov planes as I mentioned.  The KA 10, or Anatoly's .86 WC model in particular.

One of the "Soviet" guys on facebook had mentioned in a private message  that the '86 WC plane was not the KA "10".  I have NO CLUE, any help there?? !!!

Thanks!
Bill

[steven yampolsky]

One of the "Soviet" guys on facebook had mentioned in a private message  that the '86 WC plane was not the KA "10".  I have NO CLUE, any help there?? !!!

KA-10 was Anatoly's '88 airplane. KA-8 was Anatoly's '86 model. Anatoly used to paint the year the model on the wing right under the lettering. Attached is a picture of KA-10 that clearly shows 88 under the '10'

Speaking of 1988 WC, did you know that Sirotkin(the one who designed MockBa/Space hound) was team manager for the soviets? I just found out about this while scanning russian CL forums.

[Bill Little]

Thanks Steven AND Bruno!

(Bruno, I missed your reply SOMEHOW, SORRY!)

I appreciate the help.  Well, I have everything to build a "KA 10" (from 1988, I guess! LOL!!) and might be willing to change things enough to make it a "KA 8", if I knew what to do...........

One or the other will be built.  A "World Champion model" would be my FIRST CHOICE, but a KA 10 might have to do.

Anymore to add?  I will be waiting!

BTW:  Yuryi, and I, have emailed several times, but is hit and miss, by no fault of his!

Bill

[Paul Walker]

KA-10 was Anatoly's '88 airplane. KA-8 was Anatoly's '86 model. Anatoly used to paint the year the model on the wing right under the lettering. Attached is a picture of KA-10 that clearly shows 88 under the '10'

Speaking of 1988 WC, did you know that Sirotkin(the one who designed MockBa/Space hound) was team manager for the soviets? I just found out about this while scanning russian CL forums.

Yes, I was there at those championships in '88. Near the end of the competition, the USA and CCCP had a joint "dinner" to clelbrate. I sat at the dinner table with Anatoly. We drank lots of vodka together. I was told never to get into a vodka drinking contest with a "Russian", but what the heck. Near the end (well, the part that I still remember), Sirotkin stood up, gave all the Russina team members "the eye", and they all stood up and exited. Anatoly had a giant red nose at that time!

I got back to our room and quickly passed out. The next day, I made it back out to the field by 2:00 in the afternoon. I didn't see Anatoly there!. The next night at the banquet, I asked him where he was the previous day.  He said, "Paul my friend, I was so sick I stayed in bed all day long!"  Wow, I managed to "out drink" a Russian.  Well, that's the last time I will ever try that!

Anatoly was a very nice person. He had problems in his home country with civil wars, etc., and was trying to find a job out of there to keep his family safe. We tried to get his resume in here at Boeing, but nothing ever happened with that effort. I saw him again in '96 WC's in Sweeden, and saw him in France in '00 for the last time.  It is very nice to see his picture still flying stunt, and having his son find interest in stunt also.

I sure hope to see him at least one more time!

Paul Walker

[steven yampolsky]

I appreciate the help.  Well, I have everything to build a "KA 10" (from 1988, I guess! LOL!!) and might be willing to change things enough to make it a "KA 8", if I knew what to do...........

Bill,

Attached is the drawing that Anatoli published with dimensions in metric. Just multiply any number by 0.03937 and you will get inches. If needed, I have the original article somewhere and can see if there is any other additional details.

[NED-088]

That is the KA-5.

This is the 8 (looks like the protoype, the 1986 had wheelpants and a fin, like later found on the 10):

[FLOYD CARTER]

So why are the Russki planes so "magic"?  Looks pretty conventional to me.

Floyd

[Paul Walker]

On the Photo site of Claudia Kehnen there is a blue Kazach KA-10 that flew at the WCh 2008.
It's looking eerily similar to the red KA-10 on the Blenod picture...

Yes, it is much the same.  In 1992, Anatoli showed up with a non RED plane.  It was blue just like the photo of the Blue KA-10. I asked him why that was?

The response was.....These are the colors of "freedom".  I also asked him if "big brother" was with them, and he said "No more big brother"!  He was so happy.  However, there were "perks" for being a world champion in the old CCCP.  No more perks, but he was happier. By 1992 his english was much improved.

I miss seeing him and talking to him. He was a very nice person.  Hope he is doing well.

Paul Walker

[Bill Little]

Thanks for your input, Paul!

The "Russian", or "Soviet" planes form the era had a distinct "look" that is obvious, of course.  Something that looks different from what we normally see at our flying fields is interesting to me, and that they flew well is also of interest.  Of course, everything is "relative".  I suspect that if we are flying what we are generally used to, or if you are flying what the "Russians" are use to, it all works out.  "Flying" seems to be the important factor, and all that goes with it if you are real serious, and a seeing the bottom of a lot of empty fuel jugs means a lot.

Thanks, again!
Bill

[Claudio Chacon]

Hello,
I scanned some pics that I have of the 1986 WCH held in Pécs, Hungary. I was there representing Argentina as one of the team members.
The "KA-8" was indeed the plane flown there and as you all know, Anatoly won the WC with it. As I recall, It was an extremelly solid flying ship.

#1: (L to R) - Me, Anatoly, Carlos Barrabino.
#2: Anatoly cleaning the plane (check out the gap in the flap hinge line...)
#3: The KA-8
#4: Anatoly ready for another official flight. Valentín Salonek holds.

Cheers,
Claudio.

[steven yampolsky]

I just realized something: the KA-8 is in fact KA-17!!!!

I suspected it after looking at the shots of the top wing. Check out the shot of the bottom!

[PerttiMe]

Now I'm wondering: was he numbering designs or individual aircraft? Or both?

I know some are numbering their own individual aircraft, whether they are their own designs or others'.

[Bill Little]

Now I'm wondering: was he numbering designs or individual aircraft? Or both?

I know some are numbering their own individual aircraft, whether they are their own designs or others'.

From help with researching the Sirotkin planes, it seems each plane got a number according to which individual model it was, and not necessarily the "version".. Such as one Spacehound was #21 and another #22.

Seems like Anotoly numbered his as the"version" (8, 10) and the 17 might have been the actual model in sequence.  I have no clue, actually!

But in one picture the "8" is in the circle between KA and 17, IIRC.

Bill

[RandySmith]

It looks like Anatoly is numbering the type..or size plane with a number on the top, and the airplane number that he built on the bottom,
So you could have the KA-8 as the name of the plane and the KA17 as the number of planes in the KA line that he built??

Randy

[Bill Little]

It looks like Anatoly is numbering the type..or size plane with a number on the top, and the airplane number that he built on the bottom,
So you could have the KA-8 as the name of the plane and the KA17 as the number of planes in the KA line that he built??

Randy

HI Randy,

That's the possible outcome I come up with.  Maybe someone will find out one of these days.

Thanks
Bill

[Bill Little]

Well, I'll wrap this thread up, I guess all the current knowledge is stated and I thank you all for the help!

When I actually start construction (three major projects are already underway, plus helping Aaron through sharing my workshop with him), I will probably just use what I have here (laser cut short kit) and build the "KA 10" by the Model Aviation plans.  It should still be a great flying model and the KA 8 seems to have quite a bit of size differences, etc., to make the changes to the KA 10 to "convert" it to the actual World Championship model not really a possibility.

Thanks, again!
Bill