stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Shug Emery on June 23, 2014, 01:41:44 AM
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It did not storm today as the weather folk said it would and I got all my chores and family stuff done so at 5:00pm I got a pass to go to the field and practice. It was productive and I like to shoot video to see what I am doing right..but also wrong. Took some advice from on here and filmed myself close-up in the circle as well as shots of the stunts. Even went for some vertical 8s and took a shot at the triangle.
This site has been a ton of help and inspiration. Also joining a club like the Piston Poppers has been a great push.
Thankee all.
Shug
http://youtu.be/cxIF4U1PNXU (http://youtu.be/cxIF4U1PNXU)
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Thanks for sharing the videos you are progressing a lot faster than i with the pattern.I guess i will have to work harder.
Ron
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Shug,
Thanks for that! You are the guy to keep an eye on. H^^
With your theatrical background and atheletic talents, great abilities actually as seen in your entertainment video, adapting to something like CL flying does make it easier for people in your catagory.
I teach tennis. Have for 41 years. Some students can't even toss or catch a ball! Makes working with them more difficult.
You have the rudiments and my guess is, real natural abilities, obviously because you have progressed rapidly.
Seems like only a few weeks ago you were bouncing models off the turf.
Big difference now.
Outstanding!
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Outstanding video Shug....very enjoyable, and funny at the end! ;D
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Great video. You using multiple cameras ?
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Great video Sean!!!
You have come a long way in a short time.
Great how to video.
Can you do it one more time. LL~
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Thanks for sharing the videos you are progressing a lot faster than i with the pattern.I guess i will have to work harder.
Ron
I had a good day and really worked at it. Still working. I just want to be able to do the pattern. Not as easy as one would think though!
Shug,
Thanks for that! You are the guy to keep an eye on. H^^
With your theatrical background and atheletic talents, great abilities actually as seen in your entertainment video, adapting to something like CL flying does make it easier for people in your catagory.
I teach tennis. Have for 41 years. Some students can't even toss or catch a ball! Makes working with them more difficult.
You have the rudiments and my guess is, real natural abilities, obviously because you have progressed rapidly.
Seems like only a few weeks ago you were bouncing models off the turf.
Big difference now.
Outstanding!
I just had a good day and I think some mental practice helped. My goal is just a good full pattern someday. Sure is not easy.
Outstanding video Shug....very enjoyable, and funny at the end! ;D
I thank you for that.
Great video. You using multiple cameras ?
I did use two and filmed a few flights at different angles. Trying to see how to get non-flyers to watch.
Great video Sean!!!
You have come a long way in a short time.
Great how to video.
Can you do it one more time. LL~
Oh.....I did it 3 more times. Thankee Paul.
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Neat vid's you have been doing Shug. Since these comments can get side tracked into a lot of different things that would not help you at your current stage, I will keep my comment brief. (assuming the reason you are posting is that you are looking for help to improve)
It appears on the vid of watching you the pilot, I would venture to say your handle is too big for your hand. You are cinched up on the upper portion of the handle, and there is large space below your little finger and the bottom inside of the handle. Some might think that this is fine as long as you always pick up the handle the same way, but really, it is not... because you will always pick it up a little different, and when your hands are oily or sweaty it will move around, and, you are inducing more handle loading on the down control with the extra overhang to the bottom by doing this. It's subtle, but since you are at the learning stage, and are gaining muscle memory now, it would be best to head things like this off before that becomes your norm and nothing else feels right.
I don't think it's going to terribly helpful to comment on aspects of your learning the pattern yet until you fix that, like say, for instance, I also noticed your inside loops were walking one way, and your outside the other way, and get bogged down in wind placement discussions while you are fighting that handle still.
So... if you still haven't tuned out yet and decided that I'm a total idiot, what I would do is for expedience sake, get some thick racketball handle tape and wrap the handle ends to narrow it up until your hand is centered, and see how it goes, then if you like the improvement, eventually get a smaller more comfortable handle.
Hope that helps and makes sense,
EricV
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Neat vid's you have been doing Shug. Since these comments can get side tracked into a lot of different things that would not help you at your current stage, I will keep my comment brief. (assuming the reason you are posting is that you are looking for help to improve)
It appears on the vid of watching you the pilot, I would venture to say your handle is too big for your hand. You are cinched up on the upper portion of the handle, and there is large space below your little finger and the bottom inside of the handle. Some might think that this is fine as long as you always pick up the handle the same way, but really, it is not... because you will always pick it up a little different, and when your hands are oily or sweaty it will move around, and, you are inducing more handle loading on the down control with the extra overhang to the bottom by doing this. It's subtle, but since you are at the learning stage, and are gaining muscle memory now, it would be best to head things like this off before that becomes your norm and nothing else feels right.
I don't think it's going to terribly helpful to comment on aspects of your learning the pattern yet until you fix that, like say, for instance, I also noticed your inside loops were walking one way, and your outside the other way, and get bogged down in wind placement discussions while you are fighting that handle still.
So... if you still haven't tuned out yet and decided that I'm a total idiot, what I would do is for expedience sake, get some thick racketball handle tape and wrap the handle ends to narrow it up until your hand is centered, and see how it goes, then if you like the improvement, eventually get a smaller more comfortable handle.
Hope that helps and makes sense,
EricV
That is a terrific observation. I noticed that too while editing last night and wondered if it made a difference. Part of posting these videos is hoping folks with more experience will see things like this. Also for me to see how drifty my shapes are...then I have a place to work from.
I love all the wee details of this hobby.
Thanks for you insights.....I will take heed.
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Once you can put the entire pattern together you will be ready for intermediate. Remember this, if it was easy, anyone could do it.
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It appears on the vid of watching you the pilot, I would venture to say your handle is too big for your hand. You are cinched up on the upper portion of the handle, and there is large space below your little finger and the bottom inside of the handle. Some might think that this is fine as long as you always pick up the handle the same way, but really, it is not... because you will always pick it up a little different, and when your hands are oily or sweaty it will move around, and, you are inducing more handle loading on the down control with the extra overhang to the bottom by doing this. It's subtle, but since you are at the learning stage, and are gaining muscle memory now, it would be best to head things like this off before that becomes your norm and nothing else feels right.
Hope that helps and makes sense,
EricV
This does need to be corrected now. It's almost like trying to run track in shoes 3 sizes too big. It just doesn't work. The handle has to fit your hand like shoes must fit your feet. Once it fits right, you no longer have to think about it.
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This does need to be corrected now. It's almost like trying to run track in shoes 3 sizes too big. It just doesn't work. The handle has to fit your hand like shoes must fit your feet. Once it fits right, you no longer have to think about it.
I am on it))))) This type if handle info is priceless.
Thankee.
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Ditto on the handle from the old DOC. The one thing I noticed is your loops, inside and outside, you are walking them around the circle. They should be one right on top of the other. Maybe when your handle is changed and you get used to it you will notice it. To bad we are so far a part as I could give some hints to help some of the maneuvers. If I could only follow my own advice. But, also you are such a show man and it shows you are having fun. Don't know if GOD is trying to tell me something but, this was basketball weekend for the granddaughter. Two games each day. Then the mower quitting on me after I got home. The big thing is having people tell me not to be out flying alone. I've done it for years. But, back to the post, thanks for the videos, as you are improving faster than some people I have helped.
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Overall, you have good beginner class stuff! Few things to keep in mind:
1) when flying any maneuver, make sure to plant your feet and don't walk. I noticed that you move during a maneuver. Try to get your body into position and plant it there BEFORE your model gets there. Once there, keep your feet planted.
2) A lot of your maneuvers are difficult to fly because you fly them so high. You will find that if your maneuvers start at 5 feet, there is better line tension and is easier to steer. Yes, the ground is scary, but understand this: if you learn to fly high, flying at 5 foot bottoms will be VERY difficult. Start by flying all your level laps at 5 feet, then add 5 foot inverted flight, followed by wing over, etc.
3) on overhead 8's, bend backwards a bit more. you were flying the maneuver in front of you, not above you. Here's the problem with flying overhead 8 in front of you:the wind is blowing the model in all the time. If flown above your head, the wind only tries to mess with you half the time. Why make your life so difficult?
4) during the flight, you were walking backwards a little bit. Good habbit to have. When landing, you stopped walking altogether. Not a good idea. When landing, the model is loosing speed and line tension, it's getting less and less controllable. By walking backwards during landing, you will keep the lines from going completely slack and your landing approach and flare controllable. Easy points to pick up!
I do want to note your attempt at the triangle: you flew the triangle about as well as Advanced fliers. For a beginner to do that tells me you have the eye for shapes. Keep practicing!
I think for your next session try adding the following to your practice:
1) walking backwards through the entire flight. it will teach you how to whip the model.
2) try to keep your level flight at 5 feet. don't worry about other maneuvers being at 5 feet yet. The key here is for you to get a feel for where 5 feet is.
3) try flying 4-5 laps at 45 degrees. This is also important to learn the feel for where 45 degrees are. Most maneuvers have their tops at 45 degrees. Don't try to fly your shapes to 45 degrees yet, just fly laps at 45.
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I'm going to disagree with Steven on the maneuver height: when I was flying beginner and trying to always hit 5 foot bottoms, I was often hitting the ground instead. So I worked on noting how consistent I was, then brought my bottoms down until I was almost crashing but rarely actually hitting. Then, as I got more consistent, I brought my bottoms down.
If you're not crashing ever -- build some spare planes and get your bottoms down. If you _are_ still doing the occasional loop with a bottom a foot underground -- keep your bottoms up.
While you're thinking about handles, you really should think about getting a hard point handle. Lots of people prefer them to cable types (although some people do prefer a cable handle). If you want, you can just get one from Brodak, along with an assortment of line clips (I think they sell clip assortments) or a clip bender. Or you can just make your own.
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Hey SHUG!! Are you going to the NATS this year?
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You are enjoying the flying, and enjoying the increase in skill practice makes
Take notice of the comments and practice a little better each time.
Do it one more time, then do it again. Slightly better tho :)
Well done on the flying, well done on the video! Good job!
Az
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Sean,
Spotted your problem immediately - you fly with the wrong hand! LL~
Seriously, you got the basic maneuvers down so you know what you're trying to do. Go with a handle which fits your hand then adjust the line spacing to give the response/sensitivity you want. Years ago I flew a Fox 35-powered S-1A Ringmaster which was built straight and I purposely limited the elevator travel. It flew very well for a RM and I was comfortable with it. Entered it in a PP contest but, for some reason hooked on a much smaller handle. I should have known I was in trouble since I was barely able to pull out of the wingover. My inside loops wound up behind me and I stuffed it while facing the wrong way. Simple repairs needed but never got around to it.
I have a couple of hard point handles - some of which need finishing to complete. I'll have to bring one out to the field and let you try 'er out.
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Ditto on the handle from the old DOC. The one thing I noticed is your loops, inside and outside, you are walking them around the circle. They should be one right on top of the other. Maybe when your handle is changed and you get used to it you will notice it. To bad we are so far a part as I could give some hints to help some of the maneuvers. If I could only follow my own advice. But, also you are such a show man and it shows you are having fun. Don't know if GOD is trying to tell me something but, this was basketball weekend for the granddaughter. Two games each day. Then the mower quitting on me after I got home. The big thing is having people tell me not to be out flying alone. I've done it for years. But, back to the post, thanks for the videos, as you are improving faster than some people I have helped.
That is my next goal...get the loops stacked. Still learning that plane as I repair the Prowler. I did see them wander. Be terrific to fly with you someday....I do love getting coached. Thanks for the kind words on my progression.
Overall, you have good beginner class stuff! Few things to keep in mind:
1) when flying any maneuver, make sure to plant your feet and don't walk. I noticed that you move during a maneuver. Try to get your body into position and plant it there BEFORE your model gets there. Once there, keep your feet planted.
2) A lot of your maneuvers are difficult to fly because you fly them so high. You will find that if your maneuvers start at 5 feet, there is better line tension and is easier to steer. Yes, the ground is scary, but understand this: if you learn to fly high, flying at 5 foot bottoms will be VERY difficult. Start by flying all your level laps at 5 feet, then add 5 foot inverted flight, followed by wing over, etc.
3) on overhead 8's, bend backwards a bit more. you were flying the maneuver in front of you, not above you. Here's the problem with flying overhead 8 in front of you:the wind is blowing the model in all the time. If flown above your head, the wind only tries to mess with you half the time. Why make your life so difficult?
4) during the flight, you were walking backwards a little bit. Good habbit to have. When landing, you stopped walking altogether. Not a good idea. When landing, the model is loosing speed and line tension, it's getting less and less controllable. By walking backwards during landing, you will keep the lines from going completely slack and your landing approach and flare controllable. Easy points to pick up!
I do want to note your attempt at the triangle: you flew the triangle about as well as Advanced fliers. For a beginner to do that tells me you have the eye for shapes. Keep practicing!
I think for your next session try adding the following to your practice:
1) walking backwards through the entire flight. it will teach you how to whip the model.
2) try to keep your level flight at 5 feet. don't worry about other maneuvers being at 5 feet yet. The key here is for you to get a feel for where 5 feet is.
3) try flying 4-5 laps at 45 degrees. This is also important to learn the feel for where 45 degrees are. Most maneuvers have their tops at 45 degrees. Don't try to fly your shapes to 45 degrees yet, just fly laps at 45.
I appreciate you taking time to relay all this good cl intel to me!
*Planting feet...check. Wiil focus on that.
* The bottoms.....just getting to the point where I can kinda sorta judge that. Will inch my way down.
*Those were some of my first attempts at overhead 8s. Trickier than I presumed they would be. I'm gonna really work on them and getting them over.
*I will say that that landing on video just went right down just right. The others I did whip some.
Who would have thought there was so much to this sport/hobby.
When I get out next...all of this info you passed on will be applied. Thanks again
I'm going to disagree with Steven on the maneuver height: when I was flying beginner and trying to always hit 5 foot bottoms, I was often hitting the ground instead. So I worked on noting how consistent I was, then brought my bottoms down until I was almost crashing but rarely actually hitting. Then, as I got more consistent, I brought my bottoms down.
If you're not crashing ever -- build some spare planes and get your bottoms down. If you _are_ still doing the occasional loop with a bottom a foot underground -- keep your bottoms up.
While you're thinking about handles, you really should think about getting a hard point handle. Lots of people prefer them to cable types (although some people do prefer a cable handle). If you want, you can just get one from Brodak, along with an assortment of line clips (I think they sell clip assortments) or a clip bender. Or you can just make your own.
I do have a hard point and was using it with the Prowler. Will switch it to the Clown while the Prowler gets some glue. I need to get used to setting them up. Yeah.....those bottoms are thrilling!
Hey SHUG!! Are you going to the NATS this year?
I am not. Would love to some year. Eye on Brodak as well.
You are enjoying the flying, and enjoying the increase in skill practice makes
Take notice of the comments and practice a little better each time.
Do it one more time, then do it again. Slightly better tho :)
Well done on the flying, well done on the video! Good job!
Az
Thank you....that is my goal. Practicing control line is a lot like juggling practice and just as difficult at time. I love that about it.
Sean,
Spotted your problem immediately - you fly with the wrong hand! LL~
Seriously, you got the basic maneuvers down so you know what you're trying to do. Go with a handle which fits your hand then adjust the line spacing to give the response/sensitivity you want. Years ago I flew a Fox 35-powered S-1A Ringmaster which was built straight and I purposely limited the elevator travel. It flew very well for a RM and I was comfortable with it. Entered it in a PP contest but, for some reason hooked on a much smaller handle. I should have known I was in trouble since I was barely able to pull out of the wingover. My inside loops wound up behind me and I stuffed it while facing the wrong way. Simple repairs needed but never got around to it.
I have a couple of hard point handles - some of which need finishing to complete. I'll have to bring one out to the field and let you try 'er out.
Haaaaa.....I have a hard point handle but need to get it out more and learn to adjust it and such. This week maybe.
I have two planes on the repair table currently.
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Hey Shug,
You should try flying while riding a unicycle! LL~
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On some maneuvers the planting of feet help like the Reverse Wingover and the Overhead Eight. Others you want to be able to step back in calm conditions to get away from the planes turbulence. But, you are doing great. Remember to watch the better flyers as you have been already. Also don't take criticism too hard as it takes lots of flying to get to the stage of a Bobby Hunt, Brett Buck or even Paul Walker. From what I've seen in the videos, you have already passed me. H^^
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I'm not here to comment on the quality of your flying, but to comment on your video.
Your video is absolutely an excellent piece of editing and choreographing. A great video to introduce or give a "dictionary meaning" to flying a control line model airplanes and how much fun it is. Very, very well done.
Norm
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Hey Shug,
You should try flying while riding a unicycle! LL~
I aim to do that......
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On some maneuvers the planting of feet help like the Reverse Wingover and the Overhead Eight. Others you want to be able to step back in calm conditions to get away from the planes turbulence. But, you are doing great. Remember to watch the better flyers as you have been already. Also don't take criticism too hard as it takes lots of flying to get to the stage of a Bobby Hunt, Brett Buck or even Paul Walker. From what I've seen in the videos, you have already passed me. H^^
Yessir...plant I shall. Next time out is my goal to stick it.
I asked for critique on here. It is helpful. So much to flying the pattern...amazing.
Thanks for posting.
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I'm not here to comment on the quality of your flying, but to comment on your video.
Your video is absolutely an excellent piece of editing and choreographing. A great video to introduce or give a "dictionary meaning" to flying a control line model airplanes and how much fun it is. Very, very well done.
Norm
I do appreciate that more than you know. Combining the flying with making a movie is some good loner fun!
I am bowing here...in a stunt way.
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Shug...I impressed my son with your videos! (er, you did) He's 50, also I have 2 grandsons; Ian's 10, Jake's 13.
I'm tryin' ta diet, they're dyin' ta try it! They live a long distance away...120 miles. My son Rich (rich son!) has a few laps under his belt with an old Cox PT19, so I can't wait for him to fly my S-1 Ringmaster. Also have some Jr. Clowns and a Sig Shoestring, all 'trainers'.
Thanks for the time you invested in the Vids, they are very inspirational!
Just glued my hardpoint handle together. Sand it tomorrow...
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Shug...I impressed my son with your videos! (er, you did) He's 50, also I have 2 grandsons; Ian's 10, Jake's 13.
I'm tryin' ta diet, they're dyin' ta try it! They live a long distance away...120 miles. My son Rich (rich son!) has a few laps under his belt with an old Cox PT19, so I can't wait for him to fly my S-1 Ringmaster. Also have some Jr. Clowns and a Sig Shoestring, all 'trainers'.
Thanks for the time you invested in the Vids, they are very inspirational!
Just glued my hardpoint handle together. Sand it tomorrow...
That is mighty fine. A family thing. Hope the rich Rich keeps at and get the boys going too.
Enjoy the handle...getting used to some hard point action myself.
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Shug,
I hope you are coming to the NATS in Muncie in July! I really want to meet you and I hope you fly in Beginner!
It's obvious you put your all into everything you do - BBQ, Bluegrass, Camping, and now Control Line!
Thanks!
Steve
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Great video. Your a natural in front of the camera.
Was flying left-handed a choice or are you a "Southpaw"?
Man, I couldn't do that if I tried! I'd wad it up the first wingover.
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You're right, Shug...This kind of flying is always close to the ground. I think that's why many people are making excuses to not fly C/L-R/C is just too easy! They need to experience what flying a plane really feels like.
So- That's why you fly left-handed...To be able to make the points of the cross with your right hand!
I'm glad YOU thought of doing this. Others could have butchered it. You make flying C/L look fun. It is!
Thanks! Keep up the good work!
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Shug,
I hope you are coming to the NATS in Muncie in July! I really want to meet you and I hope you fly in Beginner!
It's obvious you put your all into everything you do - BBQ, Bluegrass, Camping, and now Control Line!
Thanks!
Steve
Sure would like too but not in my plans. Do need to get into a contest and get that going. Have a terrific time there.
Great video. Your a natural in front of the camera.
Was flying left-handed a choice or are you a "Southpaw"?
Man, I couldn't do that if I tried! I'd wad it up the first wingover.
I am a southpaw born and bred. I reckon it is just backwards from a righty.....
Thanks.
You're right, Shug...This kind of flying is always close to the ground. I think that's why many people are making excuses to not fly C/L-R/C is just too easy! They need to experience what flying a plane really feels like.
So- That's why you fly left-handed...To be able to make the points of the cross with your right hand!
I'm glad YOU thought of doing this. Others could have butchered it. You make flying C/L look fun. It is!
Thanks! Keep up the good work!
I appreciate that. I get waylaid by too much tech-speak so I did want it to look fun and lively.
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Hey Shug, I think I can your point in the competition bug. I've had it for years. Build, fly and enter as many planes as I could during the years. Racing was my main event, followed by Combat and Carrier. Back then there was only two racing events, one combat, one carrier, one scale, one stunt and then balloon burst. Nothing like six events in one day. Never thanked my helpers enough in those days. Now I fly for fun and enter a contest just to help out the clubs with entries.
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Hey Shug, I think I can your point in the competition bug. I've had it for years. Build, fly and enter as many planes as I could during the years. Racing was my main event, followed by Combat and Carrier. Back then there was only two racing events, one combat, one carrier, one scale, one stunt and then balloon burst. Nothing like six events in one day. Never thanked my helpers enough in those days. Now I fly for fun and enter a contest just to help out the clubs with entries.
It does get on you but I like this competition. Flew last night and went back out today to practice that dadgum beginner stunt and work on bottoms and the overhead 8. Made some progress. Little by little. and dadgum fun))))
Bought a used plane from a member Bob Cheney. Fast action and I love it. OS .40. Chipmunk...53 ounces.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14565710685_42db552505_c.jpg)[/url]
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2917/14562330991_ed4a4e25d3_c.jpg)[/url]
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Hey Shug
Your doing it right. Get a plane you have no attachment to and fly the bajebbies out of it. Its a tool.
Kind of wish I had gone that route but I like building as much as flying. H^^
Keep having fun!
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Hey Shug
Your doing it right. Get a plane you have no attachment to and fly the bajebbies out of it. Its a tool.
Kind of wish I had gone that route but I like building as much as flying. H^^
Keep having fun!
Truth for sure. This is my summer of flying and crashing and re-learning. Will build some over winter but now I just want to fly, fly fly!